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Thread: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

  1. #11
    Senior Member shelbell's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Were not in as bad a position as we have been in the past, and it seems like we always pulled out of it stronger and more united. Lets hope this trend continues.

  2. #12
    Senior Member QUINNSCOMMENTARY's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon View Post
    RUSSIAN ANALYST PREDICTS DECLINE AND BREAKUP OF USA
    Tue Nov 25 2008 09:04:22 ET

    A leading Russian political analyst has said the economic turmoil in the United States has confirmed his long-held view that the country is heading for collapse, and will divide into separate parts.

    Professor Igor Panarin said in an interview with the respected daily IZVESTIA published on Monday: "The dollar is not secured by anything. The country's foreign debt has grown like an avalanche, even though in the early 1980s there was no debt. By 1998, when I first made my prediction, it had exceeded $2 trillion. Now it is more than 11 trillion. This is a pyramid that can only collapse."

    The paper said Panarin's dire predictions for the U.S. economy, initially made at an international conference in Australia 10 years ago at a time when the economy appeared strong, have been given more credence by this year's events.

    When asked when the U.S. economy would collapse, Panarin said: "It is already collapsing. Due to the financial crisis, three of the largest and oldest five banks on Wall Street have already ceased to exist, and two are barely surviving. Their losses are the biggest in history. Now what we will see is a change in the regulatory system on a global financial scale: America will no longer be the world's financial regulator."

    When asked who would replace the U.S. in regulating world markets, he said: "Two countries could assume this role: China, with its vast reserves, and Russia, which could play the role of a regulator in Eurasia."

    Asked why he expected the U.S. to break up into separate parts, he said: "A whole range of reasons. Firstly, the financial problems in the U.S. will get worse. Millions of citizens there have lost their savings. Prices and unemployment are on the rise. General Motors and Ford are on the verge of collapse, and this means that whole cities will be left without work. Governors are already insistently demanding money from the federal center. Dissatisfaction is growing, and at the moment it is only being held back by the elections and the hope that Obama can work miracles. But by spring, it will be clear that there are no miracles."

    He also cited the "vulnerable political setup", "lack of unified national laws", and "divisions among the elite, which have become clear in these crisis conditions."

    He predicted that the U.S. will break up into six parts - the Pacific coast, with its growing Chinese population; the South, with its Hispanics; Texas, where independence movements are on the rise; the Atlantic coast, with its distinct and separate mentality; five of the poorer central states with their large Native American populations; and the northern states, where the influence from Canada is strong.

    He even suggested that "we could claim Alaska - it was only granted on lease, after all." Panarin, 60, is a professor at the Diplomatic Academy of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and has authored several books on information warfare.

    What do you think about his prediction?


    I think it's quite clear the US is changing and its power waning on the world scene, but this guy should take a closer look at Russia if he thinks that country will take the place of the US. China while an economic powerhouse the last several years has many problems of its own and is so tied to the US for exports and fraught with population changes and growing expectations of that population it will be quite busy internally for many years. If I were Russian I would be worried about China.

    If the US can get back to basics and by that I mean Americans learning to live within their means among other things, then the US will once again lead the world (as opposed to bullying the world - those days are over).
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  3. #13
    Jester2
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galbally View Post
    I would say that the Russian professors analysis is based largely on wishful thinking. Given his idea that "Russia could be the financial regulator for Eurasia" that should make it plain he is as much motivated by Russian political dreams as hard economics. Firstly what is Eurasia? Its a Russian concept (Orwell used it once), that China and the EU do not share.

    The reality is this, for all its resources and its military Russia has an economy the size of Spain's, while the EU economy is the largest in the world at 17 Trillion dollars, its hardly going to be dictated to economically by Russia, which may be resource rich, but in terms of its political and financial systems is in the dark ages still.

    America is going to remain a very powerful nation into the future; however, I do think though that the US is in very dire economic straits indeed, and certainly this is going to mean a very sharp decline in the US's relative power compared to everyone else around the world, and its ability to essentially dictate terms to everyone else about things like fighting wars for oil (for SUVs), ignoring climate change, rubbishing Darwin, and rocking for Jesus etc.

    Also Jester, I doubt that the US is going to end up like Europe. You would need about another 2,000 years of proper civilization for that my colonial friend. And equally our European right-wing, market-fundamentalist zealots are going to find it much harder to persuede ordinary Europeans (who are being hammered by this credit crunch as well) that blindly following the old American path to unregulated financial and consumerist self-destruction is the way for the "old continent" to go in future.

    Though American ideas about political liberty, cultural diversity, and personal freedom are going to remain potent, because they are good ideas. What will happen is that Europeans (particularly) are going to have to accept that they will have to start paying up to defend their own interests militarily; as I doubt the Americans are going to do that any more, and why should they?

    The way I see it, you are going to end up with 4 or 5 major regional powers in the future, and the US is still going to be the the world's most powerful nation for the coming decades, (though if they don't sort out their national debt then they will lose even this distinction), the others will be the EU, China, Japan, Russia, and India. Others will hover in around this top tier of world powers, who will dictate world events.

    Dont be so sure my friend,

    The US will recognize the lie of global warming as the truth because we buy junk science wholesale. We eat it like candy the second some goofball scientist 'links' it to poor health. Thats what Obamaination will use to drive the rebuilding of our economy. It wont be 'infrastructure' it will be 'green infrastructure' and it will cost us a heck of a lot more and it wont give us near enough power and we will still be dependent on oil purchased from the fanatical whackos.

    We will be very much like the EU for that reason alone.

    Under the obamaination we wont drill for any new oil, under the extreme liberal democrat controlled congress we will mirror EU, in socialism.

    Its just a matter of time... oh, and no the US wont be helping you fight your battles, we wont even fight our own, we will ignore and negotiate and let them entrench and train and they will be a much better much stronger and better equiped fighting force than they ever were before.

    Doom is on the horizon.





    '

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    Senior Member sunny104's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    glad I'm in Texas!

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    Senior Member OpenMind's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    I think that all this debt is just to hide the real motive - to dominate the world.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Galbally's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    Dont be so sure my friend,

    The US will recognize the lie of global warming as the truth because we buy junk science wholesale. We eat it like candy the second some goofball scientist 'links' it to poor health. Thats what Obamaination will use to drive the rebuilding of our economy. It wont be 'infrastructure' it will be 'green infrastructure' and it will cost us a heck of a lot more and it wont give us near enough power and we will still be dependent on oil purchased from the fanatical whackos.

    We will be very much like the EU for that reason alone.

    Under the obamaination we wont drill for any new oil, under the extreme liberal democrat controlled congress we will mirror EU, in socialism.

    Its just a matter of time... oh, and no the US wont be helping you fight your battles, we wont even fight our own, we will ignore and negotiate and let them entrench and train and they will be a much better much stronger and better equiped fighting force than they ever were before.

    Doom is on the horizon.
    Jester we have had a lot of these arguments before, but

    1. Global warming is a scientific fact, its not "junk science" which is some kind of BS term invested by reactionary US radio jocks who are scientifically illiterate. If you want to understand the facts listen to what American scientists are saying, not talk show radio idiots. Whether your country develops some policy to deal with it, is irrelevant to whether its real.

    2. I would imagine that yes, unless you get some sort of reality check about what happens when you over-use a finite resource your going to keep buying oil, and drilling as well, and basically living like alcoholics in denial until it runs out. WHat I would ask you is this: what is "Unamerican" about trying to be efficient with the resources you have to use like energy?

    3. Neither of these above are things that are very particular to the EU. European energy policies are generally based on the fact that Europe has had to import energy for 50 years, and thats why we tend to be more efficient with it and less profligate, as we haven't had our own supply and its expensive.

    4. Whats an "extreme liberal" is that not an oxymoron? Unless you mean a "libertine" which is more about sexual conduct really.

    5. I agree that the US is not going to be fighting anyone else's battles for the forseable future. I would hope that it would fight its own though, and that will require that the military gets behind its commander in chief and not start trying to get political, that is unless the military thinks it can run things better? What do you think?

    6. Doom may be upon us indeed, but I wouldn't blame the EU for that, also I live in a civilization that has survived in one form or another for 2,500 years, I doubt that unless the climate completely falls apart, the current financial difficulties are just the end of an era of waste and greed. Also, as McCain was fond of saying "Nothing is inevitable".
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

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  7. #17
    Jester2
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Galbally View Post
    Jester we have had a lot of these arguments before, but

    1. Global warming is a scientific fact, its not "junk science" which is some kind of BS term invested by reactionary US radio jocks who are scientifically illiterate. If you want to understand the facts listen to what American scientists are saying, not talk show radio idiots. Whether your country develops some policy to deal with it, is irrelevant to whether its real.

    2. I would imagine that yes, unless you get some sort of reality check about what happens when you over-use a finite resource your going to keep buying oil, and drilling as well, and basically living like alcoholics in denial until it runs out. WHat I would ask you is this: what is "Unamerican" about trying to be efficient with the resources you have to use like energy?

    3. Neither of these above are things that are very particular to the EU. European energy policies are generally based on the fact that Europe has had to import energy for 50 years, and thats why we tend to be more efficient with it and less profligate, as we haven't had our own supply and its expensive.

    4. Whats an "extreme liberal" is that not an oxymoron? Unless you mean a "libertine" which is more about sexual conduct really.

    5. I agree that the US is not going to be fighting anyone else's battles for the forseable future. I would hope that it would fight its own though, and that will require that the military gets behind its commander in chief and not start trying to get political, that is unless the military thinks it can run things better? What do you think?

    6. Doom may be upon us indeed, but I wouldn't blame the EU for that, also I live in a civilization that has survived in one form or another for 2,500 years, I doubt that unless the climate completely falls apart, the current financial difficulties are just the end of an era of waste and greed. Also, as McCain was fond of saying "Nothing is inevitable".

    Global warming is still a lie, just like it has been all along, last time I checked the global warmers were dealing with a 13 year cooling trend which still hasn't been explained. I'm still waiting for that ice shelf to met too. Let emm know when that happens would ya? Sorry Im a scoffin unbeliver that man has that much to do with the environment.

    Wind, solar, hybrid fuels, CNG will not meet our energy needs, not even in combiniation. We need to build nuclear power plants and drill for domestic oil, and we need to do it by making sure the greenies stay out of the process or it will be decades and decades before we see energy from these sources, especially if we go about it the solar, wind, or hybrid fuels, or CNG way.

    Extreme liberal is the Obama/Biden/Pilosi types that want abortion on demand and social handouts for everyone and no hand guns. To me Europe is extreme liberal. I don't want to be like Europe, no offense, but It's not America and to you and others you'd say thank God for that. I say OMG no not like Europe!

    We are already pulling back Gall, sorry we won't fight our own battles which means you guys wont get help from us even when you need it againnt terrorism, you might as well consider us of no help to you as of now. And worry not, the military in this country is so far from taking over it isnt even funny.

    I agree about the financial markets, I think the markets are just righting itself from the out of control line of speculators who aritifically drove prices up. When it all settles there will be less opportunity for greed and the common person will be able to afford things without borrowing. It's that entire line of borrowing that got everybody in trouble and the bankers wealthy and go figure we bailed out the bankers. We should have let them fail, somewhere someone would have had a great deal buying them out, probably someone a little smarter in business.

    I also agree that these societies will be here in name, but the USA as it stands will cease to exist fairly soon, I'd say about Jan 20th.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Galbally's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    Global warming is still a lie, just like it has been all along, last time I checked the global warmers were dealing with a 13 year cooling trend which still hasn't been explained. I'm still waiting for that ice shelf to met too. Let emm know when that happens would ya? Sorry Im a scoffin unbeliver that man has that much to do with the environment.

    Wind, solar, hybrid fuels, CNG will not meet our energy needs, not even in combiniation. We need to build nuclear power plants and drill for domestic oil, and we need to do it by making sure the greenies stay out of the process or it will be decades and decades before we see energy from these sources, especially if we go about it the solar, wind, or hybrid fuels, or CNG way.

    Extreme liberal is the Obama/Biden/Pilosi types that want abortion on demand and social handouts for everyone and no hand guns. To me Europe is extreme liberal. I don't want to be like Europe, no offense, but It's not America and to you and others you'd say thank God for that. I say OMG no not like Europe!

    We are already pulling back Gall, sorry we won't fight our own battles which means you guys wont get help from us even when you need it againnt terrorism, you might as well consider us of no help to you as of now. And worry not, the military in this country is so far from taking over it isnt even funny.

    I agree about the financial markets, I think the markets are just righting itself from the out of control line of speculators who aritifically drove prices up. When it all settles there will be less opportunity for greed and the common person will be able to afford things without borrowing. It's that entire line of borrowing that got everybody in trouble and the bankers wealthy and go figure we bailed out the bankers. We should have let them fail, somewhere someone would have had a great deal buying them out, probably someone a little smarter in business.

    I also agree that these societies will be here in name, but the USA as it stands will cease to exist fairly soon, I'd say about Jan 20th.

    Some points.

    1. Why would almost the entire world's scientific community would lie about global warming consistently and patiently for 30 years, as opposed to report on their findings and make conclusions like they do on everything else? Whats in it for them? Do you think that scientists are trying to take over or something? Odd.

    2. In terms of the specifics of moving into a new post-carbon based economy, these are all questions essentially of engineering and science, its got nothing to do with morality or political theory. I would imagine that indeed Nuclear power is vital for the next 50 years, and renewables won't be able to make up the increasing gap that the end of cheap and plentiful oil is going to mean for everyone on planet earth. The countries that manage that changeover best will prosper and succeed, the ones that don't will not.

    3. Really? All of Europe is extreme liberal? Even extremely conservative Italy? Or my own country Ireland, where there is no abortion period, and divorce was only introduced in 1997? I suggest you are thinking of parts of Holland when you think of libral Europe, thats one country of 16 million in a continent of 480 million people. Also, I was unaware that President Elect Obama wants to ban handguns or bring in Abortion on demand, perhaps time will tell on these issues. I believe you are projecting your own fears of non-existent bogeymen onto your next president. I would say its probably wise to give him a couple of days in his job before you condemn him completely. I am also very glad that Euope is not like the USA, and thats the way I want it to stay, its a big world and we can all share it while not being the same, thats my opinion.

    4. Yes, I would imagine that the Americans will be pulling out a lot of their strategic forces from across the world in coming years, though whether they will be removing their battle carrier group from the mediterranian protecting the oil shipping lanes to the US is unlikely. If they do, then the Royal Navy and the French and Italian Navy will take up those duties under NATO. I would also imagine that the British and French nuclear-enabled submarine fleets should be enough of a deterrent from any mass attacks from the Russians for the foreseeable future. Of course the real problem in the next 12 months is going to be Iran, but we will deal with one tragedy at a time eh?

    5. I think everyone agrees we need a new departure in global financial systems and the way economics has been run in general for the past few decades. To me thats no bad thing, as I am not a fan of the sterilized, globalized, corporate road to hell that so many powerful interests have been trying to drag the world into, so the demise of all that nonsense is no bad thing. Unfortunately its not going to be a calm or easy transition for any of us, but thats the price of letting this guys run the place. Lesson learned, I hope.

    6. Your final point about the USA ceasing to exist on Jan 20 is of course nonsense, it will take the black guy at least a week to get the Muslims into power in washington, so you have a couple of days before you'll be praying to Mecca.
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

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  9. #19
    Senior Member mikeinie's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    I think that the USA will see the light and rejoin the British Empire after apologizing for that silly little revolution they had a couple of hundred years ago, and re-pledge their allegiance to the queen. The border between USA and Canada will be removed, they will both change their currency to the Pound, and live happily under one God and Queen.

    Or maybe not....

  10. #20
    Senior Member Galbally's Avatar
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    Re: Decline & Breakup Of USA?

    Register to remove this ad.
    Co-incidently, the American Ambassador to Ireland was on the Radio this morning in Ireland with Pat Kenny (our national morning radio guy). He (the Ambassador) is a lovely man, and he had a great time in Ireland, he is being recalled now as there is a new president, but he rekons he had a great time over here, and plenty of craic. He didn't enjoy the rather rainy weather however. I was thinking about it as I drove past the US Embassy, which is in that odd, but interesting US Embassy style in Ballsbridge in Dublin. I wonder who the next guy will be, well its not a hard job being the US Ambassador over here, we are a friendly enough lot and the Ambassdor is usually a kelly or a doyle anyway.
    "We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"

    Le Rochefoucauld.

    "A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."

    My dad 1986.

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