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Thread: the role of women in islam

  1. #21
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by nlwright View Post
    i thank you...

    upon further reflection i think i judged the comments too quickly. i can see that there is an intimate relationship going on with the people who post here. you all seem to know each other well and have a fun loving attitude. one of my first questions was responded to defensively by a muslim who admitted to me that there are not very many muslim posters in this forum because there are others who see fit to attack their beliefs.

    personally i like people who challenge me. it can be difficult but it makes me review my motives and ideas more thoroughly. i am open to various religions but i have had reasons to reject them in the past, not least of which is the way women are generally treated in them. this was about ten years ago. i have decided to review my rejections and find out if i was indeed right to do so.

    catholics interest me for the exact reasons you mentioned. christ had a special relationship with mary magdalene...women were the first persons he revealed himself to after the resurrection, his talking to and touching the samaritan woman etc. and yet the men who make the rules state that women cannot do such and such. i am still in the process of examining this question...

    i think i may have mis-worded my intro....i want to learn about eastern religions (as well as western ones and even obscure ones) and have some questions that i was too polite to ask in the past to be answered.

    ten years ago it was enough for me to say "oh that's what they believe, alright then i'll just move on". now i want to ask "on what basis should i accept this belief? why?" perhaps my earlier impressions were mistaken. certainly i am not the only one who is mistaken. perhaps it is time someone clarified all of this to people in general. in my dilettantish efforts at studying the world's religions i have also found much that is beautiful, wise or useful. some atheists believe that all religion should just be "stamped out". i ask, really? all of them? why?

    it is useful for me to pose the general question "if i am shopping for religion, which one should i buy? or should they all just be left on the shelf?" i would naturally need some criteria for making my decisions. i am trying my best to be non-judgmental and open to different ideas but as all people carry around their own special biases this can be very difficult. your challenging me helps me to better accomplish my goals by seeing how my questions are perceived by others. perhaps my line of questioning is poor. surely i can always improve.
    I hate to disappoint you but I'm very far from being a Muslim - I pointed out that there were very few Muslim members in the Garden so that you would not expect serious levels of information from inside that faith.

    I was brought up in a Christian environment but I very quickly came to the conclusion that all organised religions were, by their very nature, corrupt.

    So whilst I find much to be commended in the religious beliefs I've studied (study is way too strong a word - study is what Ted does, I play at it) and try to live my life by broadly New Testament values, I profess no religious allegiance.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Unfortunately, we have had spammers on this forum and we came to recognise the opening posts.

    I think what you are also missing in religion especially Muslim is differnet cultures between West and East and law..... Sharia law for one. Sharia law originates from the Koran. Sharia law exists in Britain and is used by muslims in family courts.
    As far as i'm concerned, it has no place in this country.....we are British and we abide by British law.
    Sharia law does not come from the Koran in the way that Mosaic or Livitical law come from the Bible - it comes from the commentaries and from tradition rather than being incorporated into the text directly.

    Although this can make it more flexible it also lays it open to interpretation and manipulation (Sharia law for a Shia is different to Sharia law for a Sunni for example) and makes it easier to use it as a tool of control in the way that the Popes used their power of Excommunication to control their flock.

  3. #23
    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    I hate to disappoint you but I'm very far from being a Muslim - I pointed out that there were very few Muslim members in the Garden so that you would not expect serious levels of information from inside that faith.

    I was brought up in a Christian environment but I very quickly came to the conclusion that all organised religions were, by their very nature, corrupt.

    So whilst I find much to be commended in the religious beliefs I've studied (study is way too strong a word - study is what Ted does, I play at it) and try to live my life by broadly New Testament values, I profess no religious allegiance.
    Ted may well be the poster most likely to answer nlwright's questions. I believe he is a humanist with a broad knowledge of religions and their denominations.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by nlwright View Post
    that's very interesting...i have never heard of sharia law...i also did not know this went on in britain. that sounds worrisome if there are laws that run counter to british law. what about judicial matters between muslims and non-muslims?

    have there been problems presented so far as a result of this?
    Sharia law has no legal authority in the UK and is used, in the same way as Judaic law or Church law, within the community for non-criminal cases if agreed by both parties.

    Having said that, the pressures applied within the community for a person to agree to the use of Sharia law can be intense.

  5. #25
    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Due to political correctness in Britain, if you dis-agree with Sharia law, you tend to be labelled racist. In matters concerning a British vs Muslim case, the British courts decide always but muslim vs muslim in non criminal cases are dealt with by muslim courts using Sharia law. Usually to do with divorce settlements or property issue's. This link will tell you more about Sharia law in Britain.


    Revealed: UK’s first official sharia courts - Times Online

    I am oppossed to Sharia law only because if i'm arrested in a muslim country, i do not expect to have my own law, i would expect to be handled by the laws of that country.
    I think thats bit strong. I dont believe anyone would be labelled racist for rejecting Sharia law. There are Muslims who think Sharia law has no place in a secular country.

    I am opposed to both sharia and canon law. A complete seperation of religion and state. Thats how it must be in a secular society

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    Senior Member mikeinie's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    I am no expert, but my understanding is that Sharia law is regarded above all else, that is why in Canada there is an on going issue where under the Canadian Charter of Rights, Muslims are fighting for the right of self governing themselves within Canada.

    This started back in 2004 and to my understanding this struggle continues today. In the West, are we prepare to have a society with two sets of laws within it under the umbrella of ‘religious freedoms’ one for those who believe church and state should be separate, and another who believe that they are governed by no other than their religion?

    Sharia law in Canada, almost | News | guardian.co.uk

    At what point does respecting other’s religion and culture start to sacrifice our own rights and culture?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by mikeinie View Post
    I am no expert, but my understanding is that Sharia law is regarded above all else, that is why in Canada there is an on going issue where under the Canadian Charter of Rights, Muslims are fighting for the right of self governing themselves within Canada.

    This started back in 2004 and to my understanding this struggle continues today. In the West, are we prepare to have a society with two sets of laws within it under the umbrella of ‘religious freedoms’ one for those who believe church and state should be separate, and another who believe that they are governed by no other than their religion?

    Sharia law in Canada, almost | News | guardian.co.uk

    At what point does respecting other’s religion and culture start to sacrifice our own rights and culture?

    At a point *way* before you place your secular law beneath another cultures religious law.

  8. #28
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    funny you should mention that richard

    since my studies ten years ago i did, in fact, settle on witchcraft. i loved it for the way it honours women, sexual equality, respect for the earth etc. "do what thou wilt, an it harm none". if i can be considered any kind of scholar on any religion it would be the religion of witches. i practised for years but now i called myself a "lapsed pagan". (too hard to find time to observe so many sabbats and esbats etc) i mostly just try to live right.

    i liked the "do what thou wilt" command because i felt it left me free to interpret anything in any way i chose and to be responsible for my own ethics etc. so i began to incorporate other religious practices into my own...meditation, chakra work, principle of karma etc. all modified to suit my needs.

    but then i read "the god delusion". i began to question whether or not i was really religious as i felt myself to be, or if i was actually a pantheist who interprets gods as more like symbolic archetypes representing natural energies and phenomena in a personified way. i do not literally believe there are fairies in my garden but for fun i have left them milk and honey or apples knowing that nature will take care of it. maybe i'm just a "sexed up atheist" after all? much of my beliefs have some basis in science and if not...then i alter my beliefs.

    i learned that i didn't fully understand what it means to be an atheist. dawkins presented such sound arguments that i find i cannot disagree. if i didn't fully understand atheism then it is possible i didn't fully understand the religions i chose to reject. i chastized myself for not understanding the other religions more deeply because i rejected them when i got to the bad, illogical stuff. i felt they deserved further investigation. i only wish to share my findings with others that they may also have better understanding.

    bryn mawr makes me realize that we often make false assumptions about people. i humbly apologize for and retract my earlier criticisms.

  9. #29
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    Re: the role of women in islam

    Quote Originally Posted by nlwright View Post
    .

    bryn mawr makes me realize that we often make false assumptions about people. i humbly apologize for and retract my earlier criticisms.
    Yes, Bryn has that effect on me also
    When i have said i believe that different cultures play a large part in how muslim women are treated, i only have to look at my friends who are virtual servants in the house to their husbands. My friend a Turkish lady simply can not understand it when my husband may say he's just done the laundry or the dishes, she looks at him as though he's mad. I watch her fetching and carrying for her husband and tell her to tell him to get it himself. Different cultures. It's not to say she's treated badly, she wants to do it and she likes to do it.... I don't and i won't.

  10. #30
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    Re: the role of women in islam

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    I like the views of this scholar..Gulen..I thinks he has modern approach explaining women in Islam.

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