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Thread: Coup in Georgia?

  1. #1
    Scrat
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    Coup in Georgia?

    What's going on there?

    This sounds like it could be bad if Shakeasswilly is going to use the army against his own people. Standard practice for American democracy though in some situations. Maybe these officers refused to set their tanks on the civilians in Tblisi as they were ordered or maybe this is just another dog and pony show. Maybe Shakeasswilly is trying to get attention.

    It seems a little weird. Anyway what do you think? Anymore info?



    RT experience RSS

    May 5, 2009

    “It’s political theatre, not a coup”
    Recent events in Georgia look like a political theatre,but not a coup, says...


    A mutiny in a Georgian tank battalion ended after negotiations with President Saakashvili. The military revolted following the Interior Ministry’s allegation of planned coup d’etat.

    Heavy artillery has been deployed to surround the rebel military unit at Mukhorvani. Tbilisi residents reported seeing helicopters and military vehicles traveling towards the location.

    The Georgian media reports that President Saakashvili visited the military base accompanied by tanks and armoured vehicles. He told journalists that he personally spoke to the leader of the mutiny and convinced him to surrender.

    Now the soldiers are being disarmed and arrested by the Georgian police.

    One hour before the Georgian Interior Ministry reported that it had exposed a mutiny, Mamuka Gorgishvili, the commander of the Mukhrovansky tank battalion, made a statement, which Interfax reports, declaring that his soldiers will not intervene in the tense political situation in the country, and supporting appeals for dialogue.

    "Soldiers support the Catholicos-Patriarch's appeal to start a dialogue between authorities and opposition."

    “Wide-scale coup” exposed
    Earlier, Georgian officials claimed a coup d’etat was unearthed in the country, which was aimed at thwarting NATO exercises and perhaps even seizing power.

    ITAR TASS quotes Defence Minister David Sikharulidze as saying: “The mutiny at the Mukhrovansky tank battalion was part of a wide-scale coup d’etat, and an armed revolt against the government which was suppressed by law enforcement.”

    Interior Ministry spokesman Shota Utiashvili blamed events on former senior officers linked with Russia.


    Tanks travelling towards the location of mutiny
    “According to the ministry’s data, the coup d’etat was organized by former high-ranking officials in the Defense Ministry, who are connected with Russian secret services.”

    He proffered video footage of talks between the officers discussing details of their plan, adding that all “were in direct alliance with Russia and took their money.”

    Utiashvili went on to allege that the plans included the assassination of several government officials, with one of those arrested, Gia Gvaladze, being a former commando unit leader in the 1990’s. Officials are searching for two of his co-conspirators.

    Dmitry Rogozin, Russia’s ambassador to NATO, has slammed the military exercises due to commence on Wednesday.

    “It would be more logical to hold military drills in a mad-house. It would be more appropriate in the current situation. The fact that NATO persists in carrying out the drills shows the alliance is a mediator of aggression,” Rogozin told RT.

    “Uncontrolled processes in the Georgian interior policy are interpreted by the country’s leadership as the scheming of Russia as an external enemy,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry has stated.

    “This is an inappropriate way of solving the problems in their own society, all the more in the problematic Caucasus region,” the Ministry’s statement read.


    NATO’s reaction
    NATO is refusing to comment on the situation in Georgia. Nevertheless, the alliance is determined to carry out its military drills in the country.

    “We are not commenting on the situation in Georgia,” stated Carmen Romero, a NATO representative.

    As for the exercises which are due to start on Wednesday, Romero noted that all plans “remain intact”.

    During her statement to ITAR TASS, Romero carefully attempted not to use the phrase “military mutiny”.


    Saakashvili’s response
    During a televised address to the Georgian nation on Tuesday in response to the mutiny, President Saakashvili stated that the situation in the country is “under control”.

    “It is quiet in Georgia,” he said. “Nobody is threatened”.

    Nevertheless, he categorized events in Mukhorvani as “a serious act, a serious danger and a challenge”.

    According to him, the military base in Mukhorvani has been isolated and a state of emergency has been declared in other parts of the country.

    “The government and all the appropriate institutions are ready for the most definitive measures to prevent any attempts to undermine constitutional order, democracy and freedom in the country,” he said.

    Saakashvili also called for the Mukhorvani mutineers to surrender. This would, he stated, serve as a mitigating circumstance for them.



    “Georgia led by sick people”
    Georgia’s former Defence Minister, Giya Karkarashvili does not believe claims of an uncovered coup attempt, with Karkarashvili slamming the current Georgian government to Interfax, while noting that he has no detailed information on the situation at the Mukhrovansky tank battalion.


    Mikhail Saakashvili during South Ossetia conflict in August 2008
    “Georgia today is in the hands of sick people who write the scenarios themselves, act them out themselves, make a movie and then show it to society in order to intimidate it.”

    A source in the Russian special services, cited by ITAR-TASS news agency, said allegations of Moscow’s involvement in any Georgian coup are “delirium and agony on Saakashvili regime’s part.”

    Interfax reports that a deputy-head of the Russian Foreign Ministry said “Georgia’s accusations against Russia show the Georgian government’s sick imagination and irresponsible behavior,” and that the The Kremlin is advising Saakashvili to “consult a doctor” in view of his accusations against Russia.

    Russia’s head of CIS affairs, Aleksey Ostrovsky thinks that President Saakashvili has completely discredited himself in the face of the country’s military and special services.

    “I believe that the Georgian government and Saakashvili primarily need to receive highly qualified medical attention because ordinary psychiatrists will simply be unable to determine their diagnosis,” Ostrovsky stated.

    Too many coups d’etat

    Allegations of plotting coup d’etat are not that rare in Georgia. March 2009 was marked with a scandal when the Georgian Interior Ministry published video footage which it says shows members of the opposition party, headed by Nino Burdzhanadze, illegally buying arms.

    The Georgian Interior Ministry rushed to label these actions as plotting a coup d’etat in the country, and targeting Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, whom the opposition is calling to resign.

    Nine members of the Georgian opposition party “Democratic movement – United Georgia” remain in custody to date without having had official charges brought against them.



    Nino Burdzhanadze
    Speaking on Tuesday, Burdzhanadze said she had little trust in the coup allegations voiced by the Interior Ministry.

    “Of course I don’t believe the footage, because recently our public had good lessons and learned that it’s all absolutely absurd.

    “I deny that the Georgian military could play a Russian scenario, as the Interior Ministry alleges. These very soldiers fought heroically in Tskhinvali region [the name is used in Georgia to refer to South Ossetia], when their commander-in-chief fled,” Burdzhanadze said.

    Another opposition leader, David Gamkrelidze, said he suspected that the mutiny might be a public stunt organized by the government.

    “What we saw resembled a one-actor theatre, where one man named people and painted apocalyptic pictures of exiles returning to the country and killing renowned politicians,” he told News-Georgia agency.

    Salome Zurabishvili from the “Way of Georgia” movement labelled the events “a virtual reality."

    On April the 9th, on the 20th anniversary of a Soviet crackdown on a pro-independence rally when dozens died, the Georgian opposition began a campaign of civil disorder and conducted a series of rallies in the center of the Georgian capital Tbilisi that gathered dozens of thousands of protesters demanding Mikhail Saakashvili to resign.

    Despite the fact that opposition members were beaten up several times, and the opposition’s tent camp in the middle of Tbilisi was raided and ransacked, the Georgian opposition has promised that their protests are entering the ‘active phase,’ threatening to distract Mikhail Saakashvili's ability to move around the capital.

    Protesters are also picketing the Georgia Public Television headquarters to compel the TV channel's chiefs and employees to give objective coverage of the events in Georgia.

    On Friday, the opposition was planning to block roads leading from Tbilisi. However after news of the coup broke on Tuesday, it decided to postpone the action for three days, according to National Forum, one of the protesting groups.

  2. #2
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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrat View Post
    What's going on there?

    This sounds like it could be bad if Shakeasswilly is going to use the army against his own people. Standard practice for American democracy though in some situations. Maybe these officers refused to set their tanks on the civilians in Tblisi as they were ordered or maybe this is just another dog and pony show. Maybe Shakeasswilly is trying to get attention.

    It seems a little weird. Anyway what do you think? Anymore info?
    Shakeasswilly trying to get attention I think. Since the berlin wall came down the russians have been remarkably tolerant to provocation.

  3. #3
    Scrat
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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

    I guess he just made a big speech today about conspiracies and Russia and how the matter has been taken care of. It seems most of the opposition leaders are rolling on the floor.

    This guy and his people have issues.

    I still waiting to see if this is not a setup for a serious crackdown on his enemies using the army and police or if this battalion "revolted" because of the orders it was given. The officers refused to go after the civilians.

    I don't think that the army is going to be on his side if this gets rough, the police and special services will be as they all get big paychecks from the west via his rigime. This may end up hanging on the support of the military like the Romanian revolution in the late 80s.

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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

    Military coups are not really something you associate with eastern europe. OK the army are involved but it's not usually a general that ends up in charge.

    I think what happens next in Pakistan is of far more concern. Russia is at least relatively sane. (thank goodness Bush is gone) History repeating itself. Back up a corrupt military dictator (musharif) cos you think they will help you fight your enemy, say nothing when he locks up his political opponents and imprisons judges and weaken democracy to the extent they can't form a strong government then be really surprised when they can't stand up to armed rebellion especially when there has been a lot of injustice and corruption in government officials. They managed to elect a female president now it looks like women won't be voting at all for much longer.

    If even part of the army choose to side with the taliban Pakistan is stuffed. What then, invade Pakistan before the taliban get their hands on the nuclear weapons? Or maybe india will do it first. It's easy to forget China and india both have stakes in this game.

  5. #5
    Scrat
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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

    Here's the latest from RT. They're putting up what Georgian TV is airing, I really like the part where he scolds the soldiers. This is another stunt.

    YouTube - Georgian mutiny quelled

    Pakistan is a scarey proposition, I don't have any idea what will happen with that bleeding wound.

  6. #6
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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrat View Post
    Here's the latest from RT. They're putting up what Georgian TV is airing, I really like the part where he scolds the soldiers. This is another stunt.

    YouTube - Georgian mutiny quelled

    Pakistan is a scarey proposition, I don't have any idea what will happen with that bleeding wound.
    If the pakistan army can't or won't stop the taliban taking over more of the country you are looking at full scale IMO. India is not going to sit by and watch an extremist, nuclear armed state right next to them. Most of the pakistani troops come from the poorer end of society so it will really depend on how they feel about things and what they decide to do. I think there was a lot of resentment about the way the americans were backing up musharif and his corrupt regime and bombing pakistani civilians is not likely to have helped things either.

    Pakistan has a modern army, air force (equipped with F16's) and navy geared up to fight India so you're not talking about a third world country armed wityh pnly AK47's.

    Do a web search under pakistan/china war if you want to get away from purely western viewpoints.

    South Asia Analysis Group

    Although it's a moot point how objective it all is.

    US-China Engagement in Pakistan - A Chinese View

    There are two primary concessions from the Chinese perspective. One, the new democratic dispensation in Pakistan are a confused lot. The ruling coalition could not pass the first 100 days without serious internal conflicts. They are far from settling down, and losing steam. Since the weakening of President Musharraf, Islamic militancy and terrorism have gone up sharply and the government has no convincing road map to deal with it, giving reason for the US to intervene inside Pakistan militarily. Once inside, it would not be easy for the US troops to disengage and withdraw.

    Two, rise of Islamist militancy which flows into Afghanistan and aims to create an extremely religious emirate, is a serious threat to China’s own stability and territorial integrity. This area is contiguous to China’s Xinjiang region, where Muslim Uighurs are fighting for a separate, independent state. The Chinese believe direct involvement of the USA would exacerbate the already deteriorating situation.
    You and i mioght think it unlikely US troops will be in pakistan but 20 years ago would you have thought they would be in Iraq?

    India predicts China war by 2017

    The Indian army has predicted a war with its nuclear-armed neighbor China by 2017 as Beijing continues to strengthen its military muscle.

    A secret military exercise, called 'Divine Matrix', by the Indian troops visualized a war scenario with China, the Hindustan Times reported Saturday.

    "A misadventure by China is very much within the realm of possibility with Beijing trying to position itself as the only power in the region," a senior army officer told the daily following the maneuver.
    The great game goes on with new players and different cards.

    I think it's potentially quite a serious situation.

  7. #7
    Scrat
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    Re: Coup in Georgia?

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    It seems the Pakis are cracking down on the insurgents in Swat. Just how good of a job they are doing is not clear. Things may get a little quieter for now but that movement seems to be pretty strong.

    I think there will be fighting for a long time to come on one scale or another. Iraq isn't at peace either.

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