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Thread: 1984

  1. #21
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    It's an age old debate. Obviously people have different abilities in society bit whether one group or sector is worth more than another is a moot point-as soon as you accept one group is better and more entitled to more privileges in terms of education, health etc then you are on a slippery slope to starting and perpetuating a divided society. People who think they know what is best for society are usually wrong. We're all basically the same no matter what you do or who you are. all jock tamson's bairns' indeed.
    Indeed, who is worth more, the architect who designs a building or the labourer who builds it - neither could succeed without the other.

  2. #22
    Senior Member AussiePam's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePam View Post
    Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.
    People, by their very nature, vary and cannot be equal in every measure.

    For a society to be an equal society it must give equal opportunity to all it's citizens and not value one trait excessively over another.

    I agree that the LCD society is a failure and political correctness gone wrong - we need those with strength and manual dexterity just as much as we need those with intellectual dexterity, we need the artistic as well as the logicians, we need the technicians as well as the managers and to value one out of all proportion to the other is wrong.

  4. #24
    Senior Member AussiePam's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    People, by their very nature, vary and cannot be equal in every measure.

    For a society to be an equal society it must give equal opportunity to all it's citizens and not value one trait excessively over another.

    I agree that the LCD society is a failure and political correctness gone wrong - we need those with strength and manual dexterity just as much as we need those with intellectual dexterity, we need the artistic as well as the logicians, we need the technicians as well as the managers and to value one out of all proportion to the other is wrong.
    I absolutely agree, Bryn.

    We started a discussion here a while back on kibbutzim a generation later. It was not the diversity that killed a great idea, but rather the human need to feel properly compensated for effort spent, in whatever field. To be naturally competitive and rewarded for that. An Emergency doctor, a teacher, and a ticket collector all perform valuable tasks (and are equal in the sight of God and possibly before the law of the land), but their jobs don't all require the same up front hard work, commitment, dedication ...whatever, and are hardly subject to the same stress levels. If your reward (both monetary and other) was exactly similar - why would you bother taking on a tougher job with responsibility? Or if you were forced by the State into one job over another, why would you not be tempted to just slack off and not care..???

  5. #25
    Senior Member TenneseeGirl's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePam View Post
    Equal in intellectual capacity. Equal in physical capacity. Equal in beauty. Equal in ethical choices. Equal in opportunity. Equal in endurance. Equal in effort. It was that kind of idea I was addressing, not the intrinsic worth of one human life over another human life.
    I absolutely agree with the fact that there are things people can not be equal in. The issue that I think arises is when is it OK to point out the differences. We are on this equality quest, yet in many aspects we are not and can not be equal.

    Here in the states it has almost become criminal to point out natural differences in people. Even when it comes to the basic characteristics where people just can not all be equal.

    I seem to have forgotten where I was going with my post...

    Well anyway I think that if someone is truly better then we should be able to acknowledge that. If someone is dumb. Lets face it there are plenty of dumb people out there. We should be able to discuss it also without the equality police coming over and telling us we cant talk about it....

    Not as strong an ending to my point... but
    ~~~~~
    Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.

  6. #26
    Senior Member AussiePam's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Yes, I think we were on a similar track earlier on, and it kind of went amorphous.. grin.. I agree with you totally on political correctness.

    Never mind - I'm reading on. My son, who is a big fan of utopias that aren't, and working on a film script on one right now, queried the dates when some of the books we were talking about were written and we ended up digging out a lot of info. Got happily sidetracked on your soma holiday. Mik queried when mescalin came into the picture... and it does in fact get one mention in Brave New World. Here's an interesting webpage.

    Soma in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World (1932)

  7. #27
    Senior Member TenneseeGirl's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Great page! I don't think I realized just how often soma was mentioned in the book untill reading allll those quotes. What an effective population control technique though. Kind of makes me wonder about the war on drugs... just kidding! maybe
    ~~~~~
    Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.

  8. #28
    Senior Member AussiePam's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

    Quote Originally Posted by TenneseeGirl View Post
    Great page! I don't think I realized just how often soma was mentioned in the book untill reading allll those quotes. What an effective population control technique though. Kind of makes me wonder about the war on drugs... just kidding! maybe
    How many Americans are on Prozac?


    I understand that women, straining at the bit and going mad with enforced domesticity, were at one stage "helped" by their kindly local doctors with generous doses of valium and mogadon.


    ---

    Your signature... Soma - Swallow it or not that's up to the State.

  9. #29
    Senior Member TenneseeGirl's Avatar
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    Re: 1984

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    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePam View Post
    How many Americans are on Prozac?


    I understand that women, straining at the bit and going mad with enforced domesticity, were at one stage "helped" by their kindly local doctors with generous doses of valium and mogadon.


    ---

    Your signature... Soma - Swallow it or not that's up to the State.
    Brilliant. I always forget about the awesome properties of antipsychotics and psychotropic drugs...

    Wonder when it will be manditory.
    ~~~~~
    Just some food for thought. Swallow it or not that's up to you.

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