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Thread: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

  1. #1
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    Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    After digesting a complete overview of Obamacare and reading extensively the various analysis of the essence of Obamacare, I can't help but think they must be pushing some new healthcare science - a big experiment on the American people?

    The following article really opens my eyes to the essence of what Obama and his Democrats are pushing, so instead of writing about it myself, I am quoting it here for discussion:

    Obamacare no; targeted reforms, yes

    By Stuart Barton

    President, American Seniors Association

    It is appropriate that the American people and their elected representatives in Congress have time in coming weeks to study and vigorously debate the various radical healthcare bills supported by President Barack Obama.

    The American Seniors Association, which represents hundreds of thousands of members nationwide, has several major concerns. First, any government-run plan is bound to limit patient-doctor choice. Second, the House bill includes an employer mandate that would kill jobs and lower wages. Indeed, the current House legislation attacks baby boomers and seniors -- in fact, every American-- by underwriting the $1.6 trillion healthcare price tag with new taxes and by cutting $500 billion out of Medicare over the next 10 years.

    Particularly incredible is a section of the House bill mandating that a senior citizen must go to counseling every five years with a government “medical expert” in order to basically learn how to prepare to die. The president pooh-poohs criticism of this counseling clause, saying it is exaggerated. But Oregon is already denying some cancer patients care that could extend their lives, and instead offers them physician-assisted suicide. Critics who feared this would happen were also initially ridiculed.

    A former New York lieutenant governor, Dr. Betsy McCaughey, lays out this assault on seniors by noting that it began with the stimulus bill passed in February. She writes:

    “Slipped into the bill was substantial funding for comparative effectiveness research, which is generally code for limiting care based on a patient’s age. Economists are familiar with the formula, where the cost of treatment is divided by the number of years (called QUALYs, or quality-adjusted life years) that the patient is likely to benefit.” When comparative effectiveness research appeared in that legislation, Rep. Charles Boustany, R-La., a heart surgeon, joined other medical experts in warning that it would lead to “denying seniors and the disabled lifesaving care.”

    It is a myth that living longer burdens society. Dr. Herbert Pardes, CEO of the New York Presbyterian Medical Center, cites Medicare data that a patient who dies at age 67 spends three times as much on health care at the end of life as a patient who lives to 90. So is one idea behind this current House legislation to let baby boomers and seniors die more quickly so the government doesn’t have to care for them in old age? If that is a plan you believe in, then you must be a sadomasochist.

    Medicare, even though it has imperfections and waste that must be addressed, still provides good value for those living into old age. Every current version of Obamacare legislation would end that good life.

    Camille Paglia, a liberal Democrat writer, eviscerates Obamacare perhaps more shrilly than any conservative pundit to date. Consider:

    “You can keep your doctor; you can keep your insurance, if you’re happy with it, Obama keeps assuring us in soothing, lullaby tones. Oh, really? And what if my doctor is not the one appointed by the new government medical boards for ruling on my access to tests and specialists? And what if my insurance company goes belly up because of undercutting by its government-bankrolled competitor? Face it: virtually all nationalized health systems, neither nourished nor updated by profit-driven private investment, eventually leads to rationing.

    Paglia’s specific criticism of Obama, which ASA shares, is withering. “Frankly,” she writes, “the president gives little sense of direct knowledge of medical protocols; it’s as if his views are a tissue of hearsay and scatter-shot worst-case scenarios.”

    Yes, there should be healthcare reform. But our organization believes it should be targeted legislative reform involving waste, fraud and profiteering in the healthcare and insurance industries. There are reasonable, bipartisan healthcare solutions – but expensive government bureaucratic controls, reducing access to medical treatments and counseling seniors about shortening their lives are most certainly not among them.

    ................
    “President Obama must think the American people are idiots if he thinks the healthcare rationing, restrictions and regulations being debated in Congress will save money and result in better preventative medicine,” says Stuart Barton, president of AmericanSeniors.org.

    “The president told the AARP meeting that opponents are “making people scared.” ”Well, they ought to be scared at current proposals,” Barton said. “The Congressional Budget Office estimates the plan’s cost over 10 years would be $1.2 to $1.8 trillion. That’s absurd in a recession, let alone good times.”

    The ASA has three major concerns:
    1) a government-run plan would limit patient- doctor choice
    2) there would be an employer mandate that would kill jobs and lower wages and 3) the current legislation being debated attacks baby boomer and seniors by cutting $500 billion out of Medicare over the next 10 years.


    “On page 425 of the bill, a person must go to counseling every five years to basically learn how to die,” Barton says. “As I read this and hear about no preventative care, it dawned on me that Obama’s plan is to let all these baby boomers die quicker so we don’t have to care for them in old age.”

    ...................

  2. #2
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    And you're who, cherryrama? Someone with an agenda who signed up here to push it?

    The difference between text recycling and spam is getting ever thinner. It's text recycling when the members at least know the poster who posted it.
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Spot,

    I am just some one who sees that my views on certain subject has been nicely expressed by an article I found and thought I would share it with others. I do that sometimes and have never been accused of ‘text recycling’.

    For you to accuse me of ‘spamming’ you must have such a fixed agenda that you simply won’t allow different view points – to you different views point is ‘spamming’.

    Why don’t you present your own argument or text-recycle something that expresses your view? I won’t mind at all if you 'text-recycle'.

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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    I share your views on this health care scam being forced on US citizens. It seems most Americans want to live and die their way, not Obama's way. We don't give a rat's butt what other countries do for health care.

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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryrama View Post
    Why don’t you present your own argument or text-recycle something that expresses your view? I won’t mind at all if you 'text-recycle'.
    It's probably the sight of someone joining just to push a particular opinion down my throat that I object to, especially when it's one he didn't write himself.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Senior Member hoppy's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    It's probably the sight of someone joining just to push a particular opinion down my throat that I object to, especially when it's one he didn't write himself.
    Yeah, everybody is out to spit in your tea, spotster.

  7. #7
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    It's probably the sight of someone joining just to push a particular opinion down my throat that I object to, especially when it's one he didn't write himself.
    No one can shove opinion down anyone's throat. I guess you must be offended that your leader is doing exactly that - shoving so-called 'healthcare reform' down your throat? Is that why you are so outraged?
    You are free to debate. Since when is it not ok to share excellent well-written thoughts by others?
    Come on, give it a shot. Present your arguments or reasons, or re-cycle others' arguments. We are all ears.

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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryrama View Post
    No one can shove opinion down anyone's throat. I guess you must be offended that your leader is doing exactly that - shoving so-called 'healthcare reform' down your throat? Is that why you are so outraged?
    You are free to debate. Since when is it not ok to share excellent well-written thoughts by others?
    Come on, give it a shot. Present your arguments or reasons, or re-cycle others' arguments. We are all ears.
    Don't look at me. It's your country, not mine. I already live in a country where no citizen lacks health cover. If the US doesn't collectively want it then carry on without it.

    If I find you wandering from forum to forum posting the same agenda-based text, cherryrama, I'll mention it. Disapprovingly. I've not bothered to look yet.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  9. #9
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

    Spot from wherever but not USA?
    Same old tactic: accusation or threat.
    Where is the real debate?
    Debates are welcome. Accusations and threats not so much.

  10. #10
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Obamacare = New Healthcare Science?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cherryrama View Post
    Spot from wherever but not USA?
    Same old tactic: accusation or threat.
    Where is the real debate?
    Debates are welcome. Accusations and threats not so much.
    I've made no accusation. I've made no threat. I've said turning up on a site with a pre-built agenda, knowing nobody here and not caring to find out, not joining in but laying out your stall, showing no interest in the membership, is like a huckster rolling into town aiming to make his profit and then move on.

    We don't know you. Try an intro thread, try talking to us first. It's a community, not an audience.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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