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Thread: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

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    Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Revelation 2-part 3

    Rev. 2:19 Our Lord expresses even though much was wrong in the church at Thyatira, there was much good also. Love led the list of virtues. Where love was waning in Ephesus, it was gaining in Thyatira. Their “service” (diakonian- meaning ministry). Their love in action toward those in need. Their “faith” (pistos-faithfulness, fidelity, loyalty). The saints were dependable, and reliable. Their “patience” (hupomone-to abide). We are to be able to abide in Christ under tribulation (endurance of suffering) [Ref. Rom. 12:12] for it is through trials that patience grows [Ref. James 1:3] and this is acceptable with God [Ref. 1Pet. 2:20]. Moreover, patience perfects Christian character [Ref. James1:4], so let us run the race with patience [Ref. Heb. 12:1]. Their “works” (ergon -meaning to work, to toil, and act; of deeds, and doing). Our Lord mentions twice the “works” of Thyatira a highly commendable quality of continued growth and development. Their last works were more than the first. We are to be known for our continued progress and increased usefulness, to be advancing steadily in our Christian course.

    Rev. 2:20-23 Our Lords major condemnation concerned that woman Jezebel, who claimed to be a prophetess and taught believers to take part in the sexual immorality that accompanied pagan religion and to eat food sacrificed to idols. What was acceptable to that local society was abhorred by our Lord. Christ told us that the church at Ephesus would not tolerate evil but was waning in love. Thyatira was gaining in love but tolerated evil. These two extremes are with us today. They have never departed from the churches. Rome professes to teach with authority. She claims to be the only church that cannot error in matters pertaining to faith and morals. The average Roman Catholic knows next to nothing about the meaning of scripture. Taught to “hear mother church” Rome and ignorance, Rome and superstition, as history abundantly testifies, go together. Rome never does change, and will meet with divine judgment when the sovereign Head of the church returns at the Second Advent. Christ promised sudden and immediate judgment, called Rome’s sin adultery and promised that all who followed after Rome’s teaching would suffer intensely. Christ say’s I will strike her children dead, meaning that suffering would extend also to her followers. Only Christ knows as He is the only one who searches hearts and minds.

    Rev. 2:24-25 Our Lord extends the words of encouragement to the godly remnant that existed in the church at Thyatira, implying that the rest of the church was apostate. Christ tells us we are not to hold to teachings of Rome. Therefore, we have not succumbed to Satan’s lies and distractions. Christ has one simple instruction “hold on to what you have until I come.” We have the true word of God to carry us through to the end.

    Rev. 2:26-27 Our Lord promises overcomers (believers) who are faithful to keep His deeds that they will join Him in His millennial rule [Ref. Psa. 2:8-9; 2Tim. 2:12; Rev. 20:4-6]. “Rule” (poimanei” means to “Shepard,”) Indicating that they will not simply be administering justice but will also, like a shepherd using his rod, be dealing with his sheep and protecting them as well. Believers will have authority just as Christ does [Ref. 1 Cor.6:1-2; 2 Tim. 2:12; Rev. 3:21; 20:3, 6]. Christ received this authority from His Father [Ref. John 5:22].

    Rev. 2:28-29 Our Lord promises that, the faithful believers will receive the morning star, which appears just before dawn. Scripture tells us that Christ is the “Bright and Morning Star” [Rev. Rev. 22:16]. Christ’s coming for His Bride at the Rapture, is the hope of the church. “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ [Ref. Tit. 2:13]. Our Lord closes with the familiar exhortation to hear what the Spirit says to the churches. We should note that this exhortation follows rather than precedes the promise to overcomers. We will see this in the next three letters as well. The Children of Jezebel (Rome) will not hear, but the true children of the Lord Jesus will hear, for the Holy Spirit opens the “blood-tipped ear.”

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Very Interesting.

    Do you think Nostradamus took his Phrophecies from the Book of Revelations?

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Very Interesting.

    Do you think Nostradamus took his Phrophecies from the Book of Revelations?
    I have no idea if he did or did not, some call him a prophet I do not know whether he called himself a prophet. My understanding of scripture is there have not been any prophets since the Old Testament prophets, during the Church Age we have had Apostles and disciples and Pastor Teachers and evangelists. In order for him to arrived at the understanding he had of things to come he was either guided by the Holy Spirit for his time frame of this age or by a demonic spirit which can have through his boss Satan all the knowledge he would need to lead an individual to tell others what he wanted revealed!

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by ledroyjr View Post
    I have no idea if he did or did not, some call him a prophet I do not know whether he called himself a prophet. My understanding of scripture is there have not been any prophets since the Old Testament prophets, during the Church Age we have had Apostles and disciples and Pastor Teachers and evangelists. In order for him to arrived at the understanding he had of things to come he was either guided by the Holy Spirit for his time frame of this age or by a demonic spirit which can have through his boss Satan all the knowledge he would need to lead an individual to tell others what he wanted revealed!
    Thank-you for replying.
    My question was a serious one as I studied Nostradamus at Uni. He was a Hebrew and devoutly religious so your Idea that he may have been guided by either the Holy Spirit or a demonic Spirit Is quite plausible. However, although the bulk of his Quatrains were predicting doom and gloom, he also predicted Peace after the Millenium.
    He was also an Astrologer and aligned planets to the timing of his Phrophecies.
    The difference between Nostradamus and The Old Testament Phrophets was that In his writings he described sights as well as sound. For example, there was one quatrian that was un-fullfilled until 9/11. It Is very easy to fit the event with the Phrophecy after the event but In this quatrain he spoke of 'A great Terror shall reign from the skys'. 'A silver fish carrying men and arms'. He described America as 'The New World' as he wrote In the mid 16th century. He described Tall buildings with may windows which I suppose given the time, that was his way of seeing a sky-scraper.

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Thank-you for replying.
    My question was a serious one as I studied Nostradamus at Uni. He was a Hebrew and devoutly religious so your Idea that he may have been guided by either the Holy Spirit or a demonic Spirit Is quite plausible. However, although the bulk of his Quatrains were predicting doom and gloom, he also predicted Peace after the Millenium.
    He was also an Astrologer and aligned planets to the timing of his Phrophecies.
    The difference between Nostradamus and The Old Testament Phrophets was that In his writings he described sights as well as sound. For example, there was one quatrian that was un-fullfilled until 9/11. It Is very easy to fit the event with the Phrophecy after the event but In this quatrain he spoke of 'A great Terror shall reign from the skys'. 'A silver fish carrying men and arms'. He described America as 'The New World' as he wrote In the mid 16th century. He described Tall buildings with may windows which I suppose given the time, that was his way of seeing a sky-scraper.
    It has been said that Nostradamus is to bull**** what Stonehenge is to rock.

    From his 1000 or so verses, maybe 10 or 12 can, after considerable twisting, be linked to actual historical events, about what be expected purely by chance.

    Since they are written in archaic French, it's easy for promoters to simply mis-translate a quatrain in order to make it SEEM to fit some actual modern historical event.

    ledroy, I am not quite sure what you're trying to prove here. The Revelator was writing for his own time, not ours.

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Aspam View Post
    It has been said that Nostradamus is to bull**** what Stonehenge is to rock.

    From his 1000 or so verses, maybe 10 or 12 can, after considerable twisting, be linked to actual historical events, about what be expected purely by chance.

    Since they are written in archaic French, it's easy for promoters to simply mis-translate a quatrain in order to make it SEEM to fit some actual modern historical event.

    ledroy, I am not quite sure what you're trying to prove here. The Revelator was writing for his own time, not ours.
    I have to disagree, Scripture is for all time and relevant for today and even more so for today as we are approaching the time this prophecy was written about and about to enter into for unbelievers at least.

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by ledroyjr View Post
    I have to disagree, Scripture is for all time and relevant for today and even more so for today as we are approaching the time this prophecy was written about and about to enter into for unbelievers at least.
    I agree wholeheartedly with your first statement, but I'm afriad, with no offense intended, that you are dead wrong about the second.

    It's true that the Bible is universal and relevant today.

    But the visions described in Revelation were intended for the Christians of that time, intended as solace and encouragement to a people persecuted horribly by pagan Rome.

    All mainstream commentators agree on this.

    Those on the fringes of Christianity, the charlatans, agree on very little, each having his or her own imaginative interpretation.

    I recommend the introductory notes (about a hundred pages as I recall) to the Revelation volume of the Anchor Bible, originally published by Doubleday and now owned by Yale University. This volume is the work of the best Protestant, Catholic and Jewish scholars available, and based on centuries of Bible research.

    Any fool can make up modern interpretations, relating the visions, which were probably not visions at all but merely a literary device, to modern events. All such attempts are nonsense.

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Nostradamus he was an astrologer, Of the alleged 946 predictions attributed to Nostradamus, only about 70 are considered to have had some kind of fulfillment. That works out to less than a 7-percent success rate. However, regarding the ‘successes,’ M’Clintock and Strong’s Cyclopædia comments that many are considered to be the “bold forgeries” of his interpreters, including the prediction of his own death. Others were “composed after the events to which they seem designed to refer.” Some are “strained” in their application and some are shown to have ‘fulfillment's’ in a number of different events.


    How good was he really was he?? Did he just tickle their ears like they do today,,, if you think about it we can predict them too..

    If it is from God, his teaching should always harmonize with the Bible, God’s Word so at:

    (2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,
    and at
    (2 Peter 1:20-21) For YOU know this first, that no prophecy of Scripture springs from any private interpretation. 21*For prophecy was at no time brought by man’s will, but men spoke from God as they were borne along by holy spirit.

    It is possible..but he predicted the earth would be flooded again, and the bible says different at (Genesis 9:11) Yes, I do establish my covenant with YOU: No more will all flesh be cut off by waters of a deluge, and no more will there occur a deluge to bring the earth to ruin.” He sounds impressive, but if his predictions were “from God,” why would they so conflict with God’s Word?

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

    Quote Originally Posted by sunshine4486 View Post
    1. Nostradamus he was an astrologer...

    2. Of the alleged 946 predictions attributed to Nostradamus, only about 70 are considered to have had some kind of fulfillment.
    1. Nostradamus he was not an astrologer; in fact, he was rather hostile toward astrology and its purveyors. He occasionally used some of the 'trappings' and catch phrases of astology in his writings, but only as a literary device.

    2. I would say that 4 or 5 - at the most - would be a closer figure than 70.

    I don't quite understand the last part of your post. You seem to be saying that anything that is in conflict with the Bible automatically has to be wrong. That is nonsense.

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    Re: Understanding the Book of Revelation Cont'd.

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    That is what followers of the Bible believe. If the Bible don't say it it's not true. Nostradamus practiced hydromancy, he lived during the Spanish Inquisition and was considered a witch. The prophecy of the Bible is self fulfilling and I agree with the one remark that these things were considered to have happened during the time of the people they involved. You can write anything and call it a prophecy, including symbolism and a few historical places does not mean its going to come true....There is something called the Prophetic Ministry included in this are Pastors, Teachers, Evangelist, Prophets and Apostles these make up that ministry. Jesus himself was responsible for the resurrection of the Office of the Prophet....any way I won't go into a long spill but you have to look at prophecy for what it is a "vision" people have visions everyday but that don't mean they are going to happen. Besides had Nostradamus been right in 1999 none of us would be here now talking about this......

    The Book of Revelation in the Bible is symbolic and uses personification in many instances to get its point across. Such as Rev 6:8 where it talks about Death being a man sitting on a pale horse is just one of many personifications. The others are jackasses talking and snakes talking get real...

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