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Thread: There Is No Creator

  1. #21
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    Re: There Is No Creator

    he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

    Bryn.who created God , and why?

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    Re: There Is No Creator

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsley1929 View Post
    he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

    Bryn.who created God , and why?
    He cannot answer that one. Ben Franklin once said " I looked around for God's graces and saw none."

  3. #23
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: There Is No Creator

    Quote Originally Posted by kingsley1929 View Post
    he Creator created the laws of physics, the laws of physics created the galaxy - given the laws of physics the galaxy will exist and will be beautiful.

    Bryn.who created God , and why?
    Before my time is that one - you'll have to ask an oldster :-)

    Personally I like Saint's response - "Well, the painter mixes the paint and then paints the picture, so that's the same...right? We're the painting God created!" but that just puts the problem one step further back.

    If I was being cynical then my answer would have been "The Church, in their own image" but that doesn't work either - they might well have butchered the Word but the belief must have been there in order for the Church to exist in the first place.

    Is God a support system invented by humans for their own protection? I don't know - when it comes to religion then that is the basic answer to everything, I don't know but I'd like to find out.

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    Re: There Is No Creator

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Time is a human construct.
    Yes it is but it's a reference point, and we need reference points in order to understand what we observe and also so we can communicate and relate to one another.
    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    There was a "before the Big Bang"
    Not for us there wasn't.

    The question as to whether or not something existed before the existence of our universe is like children endlessly asking the question "why". Sooner or later you just have to inform the child that that's just the way it is.

    Did life exist before I was born? Not to me it didn't. I can read newspaper articles, view photos of other peoples lives before I was born but they mean nothing to me in the context of the question: "did life exist before I was born?" No, it didn't because I could not experience it, therefore it has no relation to my personal existence.

    Go back to where you grew up and stand outside the house where you lived and ask yourself: "what happened here before I lived in this house?" What we eventually realize is that it doesn't matter because the person asking was not a part of it, so for all intent and purposes the answer becomes: "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived."

    What went on here at FG before I joined I couldn't care less about because I wasn't here. New members can read comments about FG's history from members who have been here longer, however, for each member time here begins when they arrived, not when others arrived. So the question of: "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless.

    Universes may have been expanding and contracting forever, who knows, but as for us, time began when our world, our universe came into existence. That's what we know, and that's all that matters. Attempting to go back further than that is useless and irrelevant because our reference points weren't born yet.

    Imagining that there is some person or persons causing expansions and contractions of universes makes the whole god idea sound even more ludicrous than ever.
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
    Voltaire

    I have only one thing to do and that's
    Be the wave that I am and then
    Sink back into the ocean

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  5. #25
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: There Is No Creator

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    Yes it is but it's a reference point, and we need reference points in order to understand what we observe and also so we can communicate and relate to one another.
    Not for us there wasn't.

    The question as to whether or not something existed before the existence of our universe is like children endlessly asking the question "why". Sooner or later you just have to inform the child that that's just the way it is.

    Did life exist before I was born? Not to me it didn't. I can read newspaper articles, view photos of other peoples lives before I was born but they mean nothing to me in the context of the question: "did life exist before I was born?" No, it didn't because I could not experience it, therefore it has no relation to my personal existence.

    Go back to where you grew up and stand outside the house where you lived and ask yourself: "what happened here before I lived in this house?" What we eventually realize is that it doesn't matter because the person asking was not a part of it, so for all intent and purposes the answer becomes: "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived."

    What went on here at FG before I joined I couldn't care less about because I wasn't here. New members can read comments about FG's history from members who have been here longer, however, for each member time here begins when they arrived, not when others arrived. So the question of: "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless.

    Universes may have been expanding and contracting forever, who knows, but as for us, time began when our world, our universe came into existence. That's what we know, and that's all that matters. Attempting to go back further than that is useless and irrelevant because our reference points weren't born yet.

    Imagining that there is some person or persons causing expansions and contractions of universes makes the whole god idea sound even more ludicrous than ever.
    Whilst I can agree that "what was before the universe" is an unanswerable question in that all of our knowledge exists in reference to this universe, I cannot agree with the rest of your post.

    Although I can have no direct knowledge of life before I was born, neither can I have direct knowledge of life in the next town - I'm here and not there. In both cases I am reliant on external reports of events but in both cases those events are important to me - they shape my environment and give meaning to what is happening around me.

    You say "nothing relevant happened here before I arrived". Extend the question from a single house to the country you live in. Everything that happens to you today is a result of things that happened before you were born.

    You say that the question "did FG exist before I saw it?" is meaningless. I disagree - the way that members here react to certain stimuli is strongly influenced by events that occurred before you joined.

    Causality is not just proximate - those causes have causes have causes and the bigger the event the further back in time you need to go to find the prime causes. For most significant events that will be to a time before you were born.

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    Re: There Is No Creator

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryn Mawr View Post
    Causality is not just proximate - those causes have causes have causes and the bigger the event the further back in time you need to go to find the prime causes. For most significant events that will be to a time before you were born.
    And they are all references to life as one expands their relationship with the real outside world. For example, I didn't say no one lived prior to my birth, what I said was it was meaningless to me. As I'm introduced to existence more my frame of reference expands as does my participation.

    The point I was making is that of references in life, of which none exists before the expansion of our universe. That's where it all begins [for us].
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
    Voltaire

    I have only one thing to do and that's
    Be the wave that I am and then
    Sink back into the ocean

    Fiona Apple

  7. #27
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: There Is No Creator

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    And they are all references to life as one expands their relationship with the real outside world. For example, I didn't say no one lived prior to my birth, what I said was it was meaningless to me. As I'm introduced to existence more my frame of reference expands as does my participation.

    The point I was making is that of references in life, of which none exists before the expansion of our universe. That's where it all begins [for us].
    If I understand what you are saying here, that as we grow our frame of reference grows to take in more of the universe then fine. I did not understand your statement that anything that occurred before you were born was meaningless to you - if that referred to a time when you were a child then I understand the statement but not its relevance.

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