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Thread: Criminalization

  1. #21
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    1. That's the subject of the entire thread. My argument is that you might just as well have asked "why is slavery wrong" or "why is discrimination against women wrong".
    2. I've not excluded the idea of sectioning people, it depends on what their behavior has been. The inmates of Broadmoor aren't criminals, they're people diagnosed as curably ill by psychiatrists. Broadmoor explicitly refuses to take the incurable. It's a secure hospital.
    3. Previous threads expressing vile prejudice against the criminalized. Throw away the key, Bubba can deal with him, the inmates will know what to do, it goes on and on.
    4. Yes and yes, I'm comparing our detestation of slavery now with how I think our descendants will detest our current criminalization policy when seen from their future perspective.
    5. Why focus on murderers? Why jump to the extreme edge instead of finding the core? Many people are criminalized, few of them are murderers. On the extreme edge I'd expect compulsory indefinite sectioning for voluntary treatment. For the vast majority I'd expect support groups. Looking at Bernie Madoff's case for example, I'm quite keen to get those who would blithely and greedily hand him money to rely instead on their wit and discrimination in future. What he did is only labelled a crime because we've allowed the state to criminalize more and more of us. Bernie Madoff shouldn't be regarded as any more criminal than a fairground shyster. It's shameful that he's in jail.
    GMC answered the question, the law protects the weak.
    The victims of crime need protection.
    People are not prejudiced against criminals, just the crimes they commit.
    Some need treatment, some need punishment, throwing them all into the same prisons is not the answer.
    Criminals and criminality can be over analysed. Some need a short sharp punishment not treatment, others need treatment and segregating from the rest of us for our and their safety.
    The fairground shyster is a criminal except his crime is less harmful dealing in pennies rather than the millions that Bernie dealt with devastating lives as the consequence.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  2. #22
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    So what you are really saying Is that all the victems of Bernie Maddoff deserve all they get for falling for his fraud and you being such a smartarsse, would never be conned In such a manner?
    Yes to the first half. I've never said anywhere whether I thought I would fall for a scheme such as his so I've no idea where the second half came from.

    I suggest we bump the thread in fifty years when the trend of history will perhaps be clearer, and see whether I was right. I'm reasonably optimistic that I am.
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  3. #23
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    People are not prejudiced against criminals, just the crimes they commit.
    No. This site is top-heavy with posters explicitly heaping dung and rabid tabloid-style vituperation on the heads of criminalized people in the most disgracefully prejudiced fashion. As with slaves when there were slaves there's a mass undercurrent of "they're not people, they're animals" to the threads in question. There really are a lot of them, they're why I now think what I think.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  4. #24
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Yes to the first half. I've never said anywhere whether I thought I would fall for a scheme such as his so I've no idea where the second half came from.

    I suggest we bump the thread in fifty years when the trend of history will perhaps be clearer, and see whether I was right. I'm reasonably optimistic that I am.
    The thought of you lasting another fifty years ?????????????????????????????????????????????????? ??????????????

  5. #25
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    No. This site is top-heavy with posters explicitly heaping dung and rabid tabloid-style vituperation on the heads of criminalized people in the most disgracefully prejudiced fashion. As with slaves when there were slaves there's a mass undercurrent of "they're not people, they're animals" to the threads in question. There really are a lot of them, they're why I now think what I think.
    Garbage.

    You are the one who seems to find something that is not there In those threads by reeding between the lines and second guessing.

  6. #26
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Garbage.

    You are the one who seems to find something that is not there In those threads by reeding between the lines and second guessing.
    I was there. You weren't there but I was there.

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/cr...-released.html for example.

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/cr...wn-killer.html

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/cu...ts-stayed.html

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/cr...uldnt-fry.html

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/ge...-punished.html

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/ge...t-paroled.html

    That's scratching the surface. I've ignored idiots like Andy, too.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  7. #27
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    Re: Criminalization

    You have linked threads from members that are no longer here....... Say no more.

  8. #28
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    You have linked threads from members that are no longer here....... Say no more.
    I expect they couldn't stand the shame of having their names associated with those posts. The threads are what the site consists of and "disgracefully prejudiced" is putting it mildly.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  9. #29
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    No. This site is top-heavy with posters explicitly heaping dung and rabid tabloid-style vituperation on the heads of criminalized people in the most disgracefully prejudiced fashion. As with slaves when there were slaves there's a mass undercurrent of "they're not people, they're animals" to the threads in question. There really are a lot of them, they're why I now think what I think.
    Although of course, if the people concerned had not committed the crimes........nobody would notice them or care about them, or could pick them out in a bus queue.
    Hardly the same as the vituperation (whatever that is) thrown at people who happened to be black.

    Can you not see the flaw in your logic ?

    Prejudice :is making a judgment or assumption about someone or something before having enough knowledge to be able to do so with guaranteed accuracy, or "judging a book by its cover". The word prejudice is most often used to refer to preconceived judgments toward people.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  10. #30
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Criminalization

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Can you not see the flaw in your logic ?
    The current general view is that the people concerned are responsible for their own criminalization. That, I think, is what will change. The new view will be that criminalization is a function of society, not a behavioural aspect of the individual.

    The only reason anyone is labelled a criminal is because society has defined them to be a criminal, and the tendency for decades has been to include a progressively higher proportion of the population within that definition. Let's break the mould and dispense with criminalizing people in the first place, there are better ways of running the world than repression.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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