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Thread: Criminalization

  1. #61
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Regarding the rape, the violence and Madoff, the woman has every right to go anywhere at any time in safety, there's no question of "sense" coming into it. The rapist and the other violent person should not ever be released into the community until they pose no more risk than the average member of society. They should be treated on medical grounds if possible, and held on medical grounds even where no treatment is possible, on the basis that they are both sick and dangerous. What currently happens with any violent crime is a maximum term being set. There should never be any maximum term set for anyone held for treatment. The conditions for their release should be a medical judgement based on their medical state.

    Madoff, on the other hand, defrauded people. I don't regard that as even an antisocial act, much less a crime. People are desensitised to the danger of fraud by this criminalizing process, they act like headless chickens. In a better world, Madoff should have got a medal for reinforcing the message to the public at large - don't trust con-men.

    What I wrote about Karla Homolka was based on news articles at the time, I'm sure I quoted from a few and summarised what I'd found. Equating her with Vincent Tabac is something only you could achieve.
    Balderdash, Piffle, Poppycock and Bollocks.

    By you reasoning, the rapist should have got a medal for making the woman more aware to taking Taxi's home at night and the beaten man, more aware to taking self defence classes.

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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by oscar View Post
    Balderdash, Piffle, Poppycock and Bollocks.

    By you reasoning, the rapist should have got a medal for making the woman more aware to taking Taxi's home at night and the beaten man, more aware to taking self defence classes.
    I know why I write here. It's so my children's children can think about the issues I've thought about and decide the extent to which they agree or disagree with me. I find it a convenient place to do that.

    Why do you post here, oscar? I'd be hesitant to acknowledge your posts, were they mine.
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  3. #63
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I know why I write here. It's so my children's children can think about the issues I've thought about and decide the extent to which they agree or disagree with me. I find it a convenient place to do that.

    Why do you post here, oscar? I'd be hesitant to acknowledge your posts, were they mine.
    Instead of the emotional claptrap that we are fed to believe your posts are somewhat of a treasure chest for your future generations, why not address the analogies put to you?

    I repeat, by your reasoning, the rapist could be given a medal for making the victim aware that she should refrain from walking home late at night In the dark again, by your token and absurd claim that Maddoff should be given a medal for making his victems more financially astute In the future.

    Pray tell old bean, what is the difference there according to your reasoning? Or Is that far too difficult for you?

    If you do not like members of a forum coming back and challenging you and you want to leave something for the fruit of your loins, I suggest you are In the wrong place for the wrong reasons and a blog may be more suitable where you can wax lyrical to your little hearts desire without Interference. However, If you post a thread with absurd claims such as 'Free Maddoff'... you deserve all you get.

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    Re: Criminalization

    Violence to the person, oscar. You're fighting for obsolete property rights which I regard as antisocial in the first place, I'm arguing that violence to the person is an indicator of mental dis-ease. Bernie Madoff had nothing to do with violence to the person, he was a confidence trickster in an environment where some people thought they were protected by the law, which just shows how stupid they were.
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    Re: Criminalization

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Violence to the person, oscar. You're fighting for obsolete property rights which I regard as antisocial in the first place, I'm arguing that violence to the person is an indicator of mental dis-ease. Bernie Madoff had nothing to do with violence to the person, he was a confidence trickster in an environment where some people thought they were protected by the law, which just shows how stupid they were.
    Violence can also be emotionally Inflicted pain. People who lost their homes and their lives as a result of Maddoff would be just as affected. The woman who was raped will no doubt never trust a man again. The victim of Maddoff will never trust again. The woman was stupid to walk home late at night In the dark. Maddoff's victems according to you were stupid. Would the rapist have struck If the woman had got a taxi.? Probably not that night. He may just have been an opportunist and took advantage because she was alone In the dark.... Maddoff's crime's were plotted, planned and pre-meditated.

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    Re: Criminalization

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    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    There's a recent thread about race hate that's got me thinking about the history of acceptability. There was a time when genocide was considered a valuable and lawful option for migrants, a time when women had no equal opportunity protection, a time when slavery was just a profitable business choice.

    So I wondered what we could predict about today's world that will be looked back on by our descendants with abhorrence. My candidate is criminalization.

    A person used to be declared a slave by applying legislation. A person nowadays is declared to be a criminal by applying legislation. In both cases a law is passed which allows the status of slave or criminal to be attributed to a person. Without those laws a person could be neither a slave nor a criminal.

    The very concept of such a status - "slave" - appals most people now. I suggest the very concept of the status "criminal" will have get similar reaction in the future.

    I also wondered how to get the notion discussed and Bernie Madoff sprang to mind. He's a chap who, had he done two hundred years ago what he did over the last twenty, would have broken no laws whatever and consequently not been a criminal. Now he's been criminalized by the application of laws. He's in jail serving a 150 year sentence.

    Bernie Madoff is a criminal because a law exists which says he's a criminal, just as Dred Scott was a slave because a law existed which said he was a slave.

    What's appalling isn't Bernie Madoff, it's the law.

    In order to classify criminalization as unacceptable behavior at all levels of society I propose we start by petitioning for the immediate release of Bernie Madoff. Nothing he did is even immoral as seen through the eyes of the eighteenth century, there's no reason for the law to have criminalized what he did.

    Free Bernie Madoff.
    Interesting thought and you may be right about the future.

    In the case of Bernie Madoff, it's perhaps to his advantage that he's incarcerated. It may be the best chance he has of remaining alive. Not that life would be his first choice since things fell apart.

    I think there's more than one reason for criminalization and incarceration, none of which I necessarily agree with.
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
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