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Thread: A great article on Obama

  1. #11
    anomaly
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    It's a dilemma. Do you vote for the current president? He signed an indefinite detention bill with a frowny face stating that his government alone promises to never use their right to eliminate your rights... but if another party gets elected... well, we don't know.

    Or do you vote for one of the Republican Muppets who are discovering that Super PACs can expose the fact that they are purely muppets and far from respectable people who deserve the high honour of representative of the people?

    If you don't vote then what other options do you have?
    If you do vote, then you are responsible for encouraging some of the most manipulative, irresponsible sociopaths that ever could say they rule because people wanted it.

    It's a conundrum.

  2. #12
    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by koan View Post
    It's a dilemma. Do you vote for the current president? He signed an indefinite detention bill with a frowny face stating that his government alone promises to never use their right to eliminate your rights... but if another party gets elected... well, we don't know.

    Or do you vote for one of the Republican Muppets who are discovering that Super PACs can expose the fact that they are purely muppets and far from respectable people who deserve the high honour of representative of the people?

    If you don't vote then what other options do you have?
    If you do vote, then you are responsible for encouraging some of the most manipulative, irresponsible sociopaths that ever could say they rule because people wanted it.

    It's a conundrum.
    Yes it is.
    But when making a choice, you select the one that is least offensive, or you make no choice, and let others decide.
    Since it would appear that the Goppies will likely control Congress for another few years, I prefer to have the White House inhabited by their opposition.
    I don't think we can take another few years of GOP controlling both Executive and Legislative branches. Look what we got last time that happened.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

  3. #13
    anomaly
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    hmmm. the Republicans force a bill through then point fingers at a Democrat when he signs it and then run campaigns saying they would have done something different.

    So, who's ruling the country?

    What are the options?

  4. #14
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    The "Goppies" have no opposition. They all agree in centralized gov't, subordinating the States - a word Americans think is means 'big county' which Washington is happy to encourage - and violating at every whim the Constitution they each swore to uphold.

    Why don't we just make it official and vote - sorry, no vote needed - issue an Executive Order to retire the Constitution? Nobody seems to give a **** anyway, and few even seem to know what it says.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    My response to portions of the article:

    But Obama did several things at once: he continued the bank bailout begun by George W. Bush, he initiated a bailout of the auto industry, and he worked to pass a huge stimulus package of $787 billion.
    None of which are remotely constitutional.

    All these decisions deserve scrutiny. And in retrospect, they were far more successful than anyone has yet fully given Obama the credit for.
    All these decisions deserve impeachment. Any success is Machiavellian, at best.

    The great conservative bugaboo, Obamacare, is also far more moderate than its critics have claimed.
    and still just as unconstitutional as any honest scholar would claim.

    Obama reversed Bush’s policy of ignoring Osama bin Laden, immediately setting a course that eventually led to his capture and death. And when the moment for decision came, the president overruled both his secretary of state and vice president in ordering the riskiest—but most ambitious—plan on the table. He even personally ordered the extra helicopters that saved the mission. It was a triumph, not only in killing America’s primary global enemy, but in getting a massive trove of intelligence to undermine al Qaeda even further. If George Bush had taken out bin Laden, wiped out al Qaeda’s leadership, and gathered a treasure trove of real intelligence by a daring raid, he’d be on Mount Rushmore by now. But where Bush talked tough and acted counterproductively, Obama has simply, quietly, relentlessly decimated our real enemies, while winning the broader propaganda war. Since he took office, al Qaeda’s popularity in the Muslim world has plummeted.
    I give Obama the credit he's due, here.

    Obama’s foreign policy, like Dwight Eisenhower’s or George H.W. Bush’s, eschews short-term political hits for long-term strategic advantage. It is forged by someone interested in advancing American interests—not asserting an ideology and enforcing it regardless of the consequences by force of arms. By hanging back a little, by “leading from behind” in Libya and elsewhere, Obama has made other countries actively seek America’s help and reappreciate our role. As an antidote to the bad feelings of the Iraq War, it has worked close to perfectly.
    This is not foreign policy; it is military policy. Our military is supposed to be for defense. We haven't used it for US defense since 1945, and haven't done it in accordance with our Constitution since then, either.

    Yes, Obama has waged a war based on a reading of executive power that many civil libertarians, including myself, oppose. And he has signed into law the indefinite detention of U.S. citizens without trial (even as he pledged never to invoke this tyrannical power himself). But he has done the most important thing of all: excising the cancer of torture from military detention and military justice. If he is not reelected, that cancer may well return.
    So now if we don't reelect him, not only might they bring back torture, they can legally do it to our own citizens. What kind of twisted .... aauauughhgghg!!



    *breathe .... breathe .... *

    We as a nation would be far better off in the long run had the economy been allowed to collapse. The corporate sponsors who controlled GW Bush and control Obama, Romney, Gingrich, & Santorum might not be able to control Washington anymore. We would have had a chance to return to individual liberty. Instead, we continue status quo.

    I pray for another collapse and soon.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    There is something the author writes that I do agree with:

    If you are an Independent and can vote in a GOP primary, vote Paul. If you are a Republican concerned about the degeneracy of the GOP, vote Paul. If you are a citizen who wants more decency and honesty in our politics, vote Paul. If you want someone in the White House who has spent decades in Washington and never been corrupted, vote Paul.
    Ron Paul For The GOP Nomination - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast

  7. #17
    Senior Member K.Snyder's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    The "Goppies" have no opposition. They all agree in centralized gov't, subordinating the States - a word Americans think is means 'big county' which Washington is happy to encourage - and violating at every whim the Constitution they each swore to uphold.
    Perhaps it's evident that the constitution was a fantastic model for a country that never fathomed a population above 300,000,000.

    With the population being estimated at around 2.5 million people during the time the constitutions was written compared to roughly 300,000,000 today(Personally I'd say at least 330,000,000 but whatever what's 30 million right?) why can't people see the need for a majority to protect the rights of individuals for them?

    The constitution is great, not perfect. It needs to be adjusted accordingly. Without so much freedom that you advocate our economy wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy with as many blood sucking vultures raking their greedy hands over everyone's lives simply because they can manipulate incompetent laws based off of a misconceived premise that originated during a time with 00.83% of the population it is today(Those are two zeros in front of the .83)

    If everyone thought to never change their ideologies then we wouldn't be much beyond metal bending
    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Why don't we just make it official and vote - sorry, no vote needed - issue an Executive Order to retire the Constitution? Nobody seems to give a **** anyway, and few even seem to know what it says.
    Actually I'm sure alot more people will agree with you than you realize,..

    they're called republicans...

  8. #18
    Senior Member K.Snyder's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    There is something the author writes that I do agree with:


    Ron Paul For The GOP Nomination - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast
    Perhaps you skimmed the article and overlooked this...
    Which brings me to Ron Paul. Let me immediately say I do not support many of his nuttier policy proposals. I am not a doctrinaire libertarian. Paul's campaign for greater oversight of the Fed is great, but abolition of it is utopian and dangerous. A veto of anything but an immediately balanced budget would tip the US and the world into a serious downturn (a process to get there in one or two terms makes much more sense). Cutting taxes as he wants to is also fiscally irresponsible without spending cuts first. He adds deductions to the tax code rather than abolish them. His energy policy would intensify our reliance on carbon, not decrease it. He has no policy for the uninsured. There are times when he is rightly described as a crank. He has had associations in the past that are creepy when not downright ugly.

    But all this is why a conservative like me is for Obama. What we are talking about here is who to support in a primary dominated by extremes, resentment, absence of ideas and Obama-hatred.
    Ron Paul For The GOP Nomination - The Dish | By Andrew Sullivan - The Daily Beast

    Your quote is obviously aimed at those able to vote in the republican primaries and nothing else, which shows the very frightening nature the possibility one of these morons will win office truly is.

    That was a breath of fresh air...

  9. #19
    Senior Member K.Snyder's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    My response to portions of the article:

    None of which are remotely constitutional.

    All these decisions deserve impeachment. Any success is Machiavellian, at best.

    and still just as unconstitutional as any honest scholar would claim.

    I give Obama the credit he's due, here.

    This is not foreign policy; it is military policy. Our military is supposed to be for defense. We haven't used it for US defense since 1945, and haven't done it in accordance with our Constitution since then, either.

    So now if we don't reelect him, not only might they bring back torture, they can legally do it to our own citizens. What kind of twisted .... aauauughhgghg!!



    *breathe .... breathe .... *

    We as a nation would be far better off in the long run had the economy been allowed to collapse. The corporate sponsors who controlled GW Bush and control Obama, Romney, Gingrich, & Santorum might not be able to control Washington anymore. We would have had a chance to return to individual liberty. Instead, we continue status quo.

    I pray for another collapse and soon.
    Everything you seem to be for is synonymous of holding every citizen hostage with the chance they might starve all in order to rant and rave about the constitution...

    Why not give the man credit for saving our economy instead of expecting everyone can swim to save their own life? I'm sorry but if the constitution encourages everyone to only care about themselves and watch people suffer then it should have never been their to begin with.

    Then to give Obama credit for taking out Osama Bin Laden, as if he were the only one he'd taken out, and then turning around and saying "This is not foreign policy; it is military policy. Our military is supposed to be for defense..." what is that? Obama decimated al Qaeda and has now fully withdrawn from Iraq... ???

    So far I've yet to see one credible argument against the article...Usually when one cannot come up with one then it's truly a great article...A great article being one of fact and with the least amount of pure emotive impulse that I thought was well put by Bryn.

    Ok, ok,..his was phrasing was better than mine

  10. #20
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: A great article on Obama

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    Quote Originally Posted by K.Snyder View Post
    Perhaps it's evident that the constitution was a fantastic model for a country that never fathomed a population above 300,000,000.

    With the population being estimated at around 2.5 million people during the time the constitutions was written compared to roughly 300,000,000 today(Personally I'd say at least 330,000,000 but whatever what's 30 million right?) why can't people see the need for a majority to protect the rights of individuals for them?
    The right that needs to be protected is the right to liberty. That's the one that is being taken away. I'm talking to a deaf person though, so I'll stop wasting my time.

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