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Thread: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    We'd have to do our best to get them in, because the ultimate nightmare scenario is a failed state north of the Border.
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    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    They might allay the commonly held fears of structuring an economy outside the EU and succeed, if membership is refused. They'll be forced to at least give it a go. It's not such a far fetched idea. There are non EU economies that aren't entirely backward
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    They might. There's still quite a lot of oil and the whisky won't run out unless the Spey does. If they leave the Union for positive reasons, they have a good chance of succeeding, imo; but if they are leaving for negative reasons (basically, dislike of England) I think they will fail.

    And I am not at all convinced they are leaving for positive reasons. Look at gmc's response to the delay in decision about the Type 26 contracts - the delay allows Scotland to remain in the picture for the contract and my reading of the article led me to believe that the intention was and is to give the contract to them. If the decision was made now, the unclear position of Scotland means they would not be awarded the contract, but the delay leaves them still in the mix. The Scottish reaction?

    So now the bastards are trying blackmail
    Maybe my concern about the issue is making me shortsighted - do YOU think we can have a decent relationship with people who ALWAYS react to us like that?
    The crowd: "Yes! We are all individuals!"
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    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    do YOU think we can have a decent relationship with people who ALWAYS react to us like that?
    Thats probably a question both our societies ought to answer. There are the insular, shortsighted people in both Scotland and England who still harbour this resentment. Us English are quite used to being resented around the world, whether in political terms or just sporting. Scotland are still beside themselves with pride for beating us at football after the '66 world cup. They wont let us forget it, despite results being one sided before and since.

    This rivalry will never go away. We will always have the "Culloden v Bannockburn " banter. When push comes to shove, we aint all that different and we get on pretty well. Independence will still mean Scotland are part of the British Army - if my understanding is correct.

    I think we should encourage them to go out and earn a living in the big world like our teenage children

    Lets see if that comment tests gmc's humour
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    we aint all that different and we get on pretty well
    Generally yes. I'm just back from carrying a sofa to one Scottish friend's house and will probably be helping the other unpack boxes next week (they are divorcing which is very sad). They manage to be proudly Scottish without being anti-English. We even support eachother's Rugby teams!

    If Scottish Independence gets the two nations behaving like that - and my Scottish friends seem to think it might - it will be a great success. I just think of Scottish pubs during England games and can't help but feel there's a long way to go.
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  6. #16
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    Instead of having a sensible debate about the issues it has dissolved in to series of childish spats sparked off latterly by Cameron's demanding a referendum sooner rather than later rather making the point for alex salmond that Westminster doesn't actually care too hoots about scotland and just wants us to shut up and accept all te crap they want to dish out. Instead of a detailed considered discussion about the options we have vote for independence and we might think about greater devolution. Trust me I'm a tory just does not work in scotland. We are supposed top have a union yet it seems not all parties are entitled to an opinion on the matter. We have right wing tory MP's that are demanding a referendum on membership of the EU - conveniently forgetting we had one when we joined - yet dead set against the scots having a discussion about staying in a union imposed on them after another banking crisis by a ruling class that didn't give a **** about the people. The welsh and irish were conquered by the English the scots were not you had to buy us off - or rather buy off the ruling elites of the time. We are a distinct nation with very different outlooks on many things and with a separate legal, education systems and even a different religion.

    The union really started falling apart the day margaret thatcher inposed the poll tax on scotland as an experiment because she thought we would just put up with it and there was very little said by the english about that particular form of taxation being imposed on the scots. She does the same thing in england and the resulting riots bring her down, so much for union solidarity, if she had only imposed it on the scots no one in england would have cared. As to the myth that the english subsidide the scots that is exactly what it is - a myth. Without the oil revenues the Uk wopuld be properly bankrupt, instead of that money being used to invest in the UK it was used by thatcher to crush the unions and cut the taxes for the already wealthy all in the insane belief that financial services was the new industrial sector and that the UK could survive as a service economy. The tories are ****ting themselves because they are more worried about the oil and gas revenues they will lose - whicjh will mean higher taxes to compensate and labout know only too well without the Scottish MP's they will never form a government again. We have seen out=r economy devastated by an uncaring right wing government that the majority in Scotland actively voted against. That the same could be said of the north of england has not escaped our attention.

    Scotland does earn it's living in the real world and has always punched well above it's weight in no small part due to a better education system than you have in england - literacy has always been higher in Scotland than England. It contributes more to the exchequer than we receive back if anything we subsidise england, IPerhaps t's not us that need to worry about whether we can survive without the union its he English who need to worry of they can cope without the scots. It's David Cameron and articles like this that are bringing vitriol in to the debate, give us an ultimatum about voting only yes or no and you can't consider other options - such as devo max and the Scots answer is likely to be - if you feel that way about it --- well you can finish the sentence yourself.

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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    It seems that as soon as the word english is mentioned you speak as though we are a single being - the english this, the english that. Load of rubbish. There was little knowledge of what was going on in Scotland and even less of what you thought of it pre internet. And that's what really concerns me about this situation - you are fighting some sort of myth. We bought you out? We bailed you out. Why? Darien went bust and you were too small to take the hit! And wtf has a 300 year old gribble have to to with what we BOTH face in the future?

    Ah well. What will be will be. No point fighting about what will happen. We're going to find out soon enough.
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    Quote Originally Posted by Clodhopper View Post
    It seems that as soon as the word english is mentioned you speak as though we are a single being - the english this, the english that. Load of rubbish. There was little knowledge of what was going on in Scotland and even less of what you thought of it pre internet. And that's what really concerns me about this situation - you are fighting some sort of myth. We bought you out? We bailed you out. Why? Darien went bust and you were too small to take the hit! And wtf has a 300 year old gribble have to to with what we BOTH face in the future?

    Ah well. What will be will be. No point fighting about what will happen. We're going to find out soon enough.
    Of the circa fifty five million (I think that was roughly the amount) that was paid to the scots one of the stipulations was the monies should go to those investors who lost out when the darien expedition failed. In other wirds it was amassive bribe and was of no benefit to the sciottish people. We were bought and sold by our erstwhile leaders and tye bankers - bit like nowadays don't you think?

    It 's a bit rich that a tory oarty that intends to hold a referendum on membership on the EU to decide whether we stay in or not and argues that the other members will just have to accept it should lecture us that we cannot opt to end the union without the agreement of the other parties involved. Germany expanded and easst germnany became a member and no one batted an eye lid. If the rules about the criteria to join the EU had been applied greece and portugal would not have been allowed to join and neither would several of the former eastern bloc members. Catalan is also in the process if splitting away from spain ehich is why you have the spanish spreading scare stories that we might mnot be able to join. The simple fact is that generic legal advice siggests there would in reality be little problem with us remaining a member and in practical terms a way would be found. So would I prefer a future in an independent Scotland still a member of the EU or one in a union with england where we have been kicked out of the EU because the other members are pissed off with the British attitude? Frankly o don;t know but one thing for sure politically scots are far more left of centre than the english and it''s really due to thatcher and her ilk that this has taken flight as a serious option. Labour introduced proportional representation because they thought the SNP would never get enough of a vote to have any chance instead the electorate has realised that their vote actually counts under PR and handed rthe SNP a club to beat labour with. It's actually Cameron that has forced this issue on and if we do indeed vote for independence it will be due to the tories and the smug arrogant patronising bastard supposedly in charge.

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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

    BBC News - Scottish independence: Lord Robertson says Yes vote 'would be cataclysmic'

    Lord Robertson says Yes vote 'would be cataclysmic'
    a "Yes" vote in September would threaten the stability of the wider world.


  10. #20
    Senior Member buttercup's Avatar
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    Re: So now the bastards are trying blackmail

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    Hi,
    I used to be quite an active member of this forum but not been around for a few years with one thing and another. This afternoon while relaxing sipping a glass of wine I wondered if the referendum was sparking a conversation here in the Garden and indeed if gmc was still here, glad to see both :-)
    I was at the SNP conference on Friday and Saturday in Aberdeen, an excellent two days.
    Are you YES yet gmc? X

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