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Thread: Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

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    Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

    According to this guy, we didn't kill enough people. There's another theory out there of why the Romans were so successful. A superior form of barbarism, if there was a rebellion in a part of the empire they went there and killed and destroyed as much as they could. They say it laid the foundation of modern Europe by eliminating the tribal mindset so common in Africa and the ME.

    The article from the CAC.

    http://usacac.army.mil/CAC2/Military...031_art004.pdf

    Your thoughts?

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    Re: Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

    Well, He makes a good point.
    Unless we are prepared to go in and lay waste to the land, and dominate the inhabitants, Then we should not be going there.

    Kind like the notion my dad instilled in me about guns.
    Never point a gun at someone unless you are prepared to and intend to kill him.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

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    Re: Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

    Interesting, he does make some good points but w1 and ww2 were all out total wars if a type the world hadn't seen for centuries where national survival was at stake. America was involved in ww1 and ww2 but their survival was not actually at stake whereas, especially perhaps in ww2 ours most certainly was. You could make a good case that the war in the pacific was a war of empires and it would have been interesting to see what the reaction would have been in the US if germany had not declared war on the US, can't see america getting involved in europe otherwise, certainly the world we live in would have been very different .

    The concept of limited war and the just war is (imo) a peculiarly american notion dreamed up to justify to what are essentially wars of empire to a population that would find the notion of blatant imperialism unpalatable. Democratisation by force is a particularly idiotic idea. Our governments go along with it but the reality is it's all about resources, if they had no oil no one would care about the middle east, prior to that it was control of the trade routes to the east that made it important.

    The Afghanistan and Iraq experiences show
    that limited wars fought under the new American
    military doctrine of minimizing collateral damage
    are not compatible with a political program of
    democratization by force. The fact that limited wars
    are fought with restraint and deliberately avoid
    exceptional violence means that attempts at transformative
    military occupations will fail because
    the enemy population will resist the imposition of
    new institutions and ideologies.


    I'd agree with him actually. Democracy comes form within or you do what the romans did or the allies did in ww2, completely destroy your enemy and then remake society the way you want it. What he doesn't mention was that in germany at least you were dealing with what was a democratic country in the first place - arguably more of than than the contemporary america could claim to be. How it became a nazi state is a lesson from history that should be relearned each generation.

    Therefore, it is imperative to rethink
    the types of wars the United States can fight. Since
    radical programs of social engineering cannot be
    realized without the total defeat of the enemy,
    the United States should not engage in attempts
    at democratization by force if it is not ready to
    achieve total victory. In the absence of an existential
    challenge that overrides all moral constraints,
    Rather than trying to think up doctrine to justify war merely because they are so much more powerful than anyone else it might be better to view war as the last resort when all else has failed and accept that means total war or none at all. As a non american the notion that the US has the right and duty to remake the world in it's image is an obscene one. Is that really what ordinary americans want their government to be doing?

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    Re: Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

    I think Vietnam proved that a "limited war" is a bad idea.
    Afghanistan and Iraq were examples of not learning from your mistakes.
    Afghanistan is even proof of not learning from the mistakes of others.

    War is war, and there is only one way to engage in it.
    I'd much rather that we engaged in peace.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
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    Re: Why We Failed In Afghanistan And Iraq.

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    We all know what the Russians did in Chechnya and to the Germans in WWII, they went to war in that Roman style of barbarism. They did it in other not so violent ways in the Baltic states, they took deported anyone they thought was going to give them trouble. They forcibly moved large numbers into exile and a small number were killed, you wonder if it is not in fact the latter is not a better method in the long run considering the cost of a long lasting low level conflict.

    The concept of limited war and the just war is (imo) a peculiarly american notion dreamed up to justify to what are essentially wars of empire to a population that would find the notion of blatant imperialism unpalatable. Democratisation by force is a particularly idiotic idea. Our governments go along with it but the reality is it's all about resources, if they had no oil no one would care about the middle east, prior to that it was control of the trade routes to the east that made it important.
    I think the wars of this century are more for resources and control of them than anything else as you say. We just seem to have to moralize it and make it palatable to the world for our images sake. Along with that you have the Halliburton type enterprises which make loads of money on it. Our aim is not to give anyone "democracy", its to expand and protect markets and market opportunities which include profits from conflicts like Syria. I heard that we are supporting the FSA, who is supporting the FSA? Who has the boots on the ground there? Some government contractor? Some satellite company? Some favored weapons merchant for sure.

    War is war, and there is only one way to engage in it.
    I'd much rather that we engaged in peace.
    Considering the state of the world there isn't much going to stop how it is going, war is part of the America economy. What do we make here? Weapons and weapons systems are a big part of it.

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