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Thread: minimum wage

  1. #81
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    According to what tude dog posted, Obama (America) has no problem with a portion of its population living in poverty. Let's put his own words into their proper perspective: ANYONE WITHOUT FULL-TIME EMPLOYMENT MAY JUST AS WELL LIVE IN POVERTY - AND THAT'S OK WITH ME.

    Is that a nation you can live in?
    First, that's nowhere near equivalent to what President Obama said. It doesn't follow.

    Second, the only part of your post I addressed was what you said about minimum wage and unemployment benefits. The statement is mathematically impossible. I thought it was a funny faux pas.

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    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Question Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    First, that's nowhere near equivalent to what President Obama said. It doesn't follow.
    Excuse me? The quote is as follows; "no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty". Would you care to point out what part of what I wrote "doesn't follow"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    ...... what you said about minimum wage and unemployment benefits. The statement is mathematically impossible.
    No it isn't. Our unemployment is on the rise yet we have no "poverty" at all in Sweden. Are you saying that our figures are incorrect - or that we are blind? Mislead? Liars?

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    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Excuse me? The quote is as follows; "no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty". Would you care to point out what part of what I wrote "doesn't follow"?
    "no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty" does not mean "that it is OK for Americans to starve" any more than saying "No one should be forced to wear blue plaid" means that "everyone should go naked".
    The statement "no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty" simply means that working for 40 hours per week should yield a paycheck adequate to live above the poverty level. It in no way implies anything about those not working for 40 hours a week. People living in poverty qualify for government assistance - always have, always will. Currently some people work full time (40 hours + per week) and yet still live in poverty. This is what the President referred to. Starvation is not okay, and the president never implied anything of the sort. To infer that he did is an illogical leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    [...] the only part of your post I addressed was what you said about minimum wage and unemployment benefits. ["unemployment benefits ought to be at minimum wage - and minimum wage above that."] The statement is mathematically impossible.[...]
    No it isn't. Our unemployment is on the rise yet we have no "poverty" at all in Sweden. Are you saying that our figures are incorrect - or that we are blind? Mislead? Liars?
    Unemployment benefits CANNOT be at (meaning equal to) minimum wage AND the minimum wage simultaneously being above unemployment benefits.
    A=B cannot equal B>A
    It is mathematically impossible. The lack of poverty in Sweden is irrelevant to that. You have shown no figures at all, so their accuracy is irrelevant. Your vision is not in question, only your math skills. Also irrelevant is whether you have been misled.

  4. #84
    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    "no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty" does not mean "that it is OK for Americans to starve"
    Of course it does.


    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    It in no way implies anything about those not working for 40 hours a week.
    What language do you speak?



    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Unemployment benefits CANNOT be at (meaning equal to) minimum wage AND the minimum wage simultaneously being above unemployment benefits.
    A=B cannot equal B>A
    It is mathematically impossible.
    You are not listening.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    The lack of poverty in Sweden is irrelevant to that.
    It has evrything to do with it. It is proof that there is nothing wrong with my math and that poverty is avoidable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    You have shown no figures at all, so their accuracy is irrelevant. Your vision is not in question, only your math skills. Also irrelevant is whether you have been misled.
    It is unnecessary for me to provide any figures at this stage. In any case I feel certain that you already know I am correct.

  5. #85
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Are you saying that our figures are incorrect
    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    You have shown no figures at all, so their accuracy is irrelevant.
    It is unnecessary for me to provide any figures at this stage.
    You accuse me of calling your figures incorrect, AND concede that you haven't shown them. Are you sane?

  6. #86
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    What language do you speak?
    English, as you damn well know, but I try to keep conversations such as this objective and apply logic to the statements. I'd appreciate it if you do the same.

  7. #87
    Senior Member Accountable's Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Of course it does.
    How?

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    You are not listening.
    Then explain. Accusing me of not listening is meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    It ["unemployment benefits ought to be at minimum wage - and minimum wage above that."] has evrything to do with it. It is proof that there is nothing wrong with my math and that poverty is avoidable.
    Minimum wage cannot be BOTH equal to unemployment benefits and above unemployment benefits. If you disagree, please explain.

  8. #88
    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Minimum wage cannot be BOTH equal to unemployment benefits and above unemployment benefits. If you disagree, please explain.
    That was actually pretty clear to me. Of course I teach mathematics so that's not an objective opinion.

    I've said lots of times being poor in America isn't so bad. We have cable TV.

    Oh, and anyone who is starving should just hang out at the McDonald's dumpster. You should see the size of the alley cats around there.

  9. #89
    Senior Member High Threshold's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Re: minimum wage

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    You accuse me of calling your figures incorrect, AND concede that you haven't shown them. Are you sane?
    Check the definition of "accusation". You may be surprised.

    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    English, as you damn well know .....
    Now it's me who's surprised.


    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Minimum wage cannot be BOTH equal to unemployment benefits and above unemployment benefits.
    What we have here is a failure to communicate.

    The minimum wage fluctuates and is calculated to represent the cost of living, does it not? I mean it is not a "dollar figure" set in stone, although you seem to think that it is. Today the minimum wage is equal to "X". THAT (by my way of thinking) ought to be absolute minimun unemployment benefit. Anyone employed however ought to recieve more than that. Difficult, eh! Never mind ------ I studied maths in school.

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    Re: minimum wage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Accountable View Post
    Exactly. This is because the value of the dollar has tanked, relative to the international exchange system. So why aren't we trying to strengthen the dollar, thus lowering prices and increasing the buying power of Joe-citizen's paycheck? That's the better long-term solution, imo.
    NO, there has been an avalanche of data churned out in recent years showing how wages have flatlined for most people, except for high income professionals. Back when I left home in 1975, I worked in a restaurant for 10c over minimum wage, and earned enough to split a decent two bedroom apartment with a friend....a year later he left, but I still had enough to afford a small bachelor apartment, buy food, go out on the weekend...the only thing I couldn't afford was a car...largely because of the insurance costs. But the point is back then you could have your own place and afford to live on a minimum wage job. Today, I doubt that is possible in any city.

    Joe Citizen's problem isn't a declining U.S. Dollar; it's the trade deals and inflated Dollar value that have allowed Joe Sixpack's factory job to be sent to China! So, now he works 30 hours a week at McDonalds or Walmart...get real, these places never hire full time staff! They don't allow non-management workers to book more than 30 hours, so they remain part-timers with few rights and benefits.
    Joe Sixpack is a casualty of Friedmanomics, which duped everyone into believing "a rising tide lifts all boats in the harbour." In reality, it was only those big yachts that rose...all of the little boats sank or are still busy bailing water!

    The U.S. Dollar has remained high over the years thanks to it's status as international reserve currency...it's that empire thing again. So, U.S. consumers get more and more junk shipped across the Pacific and financed by the ever-growing trade deficit, but at the cost of a high dollar hollowing out the U.S. manufacturing base. The tax cuts and the outsourcing made possible through globalization agreements, have conspired to shrink and eventually end the middle class in America.

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