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Thread: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

  1. #21
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    Why the hell should they not?
    Because they were in a religious studies lesson.

    I never went to a single one after the age of 11, I opted out, they could have done so too.

    It's too late to decide which religions you want to opt out of during the lesson.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  2. #22
    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    Why the hell should they not? How about because even at that tender age a semi-intelligent indvidual can see it for the nonsense it is. If you can acceopt that childfren can believe in god at that age then equally you must accept that they can also make the same decision not to believe. No religion has the right to force children to conform be it christrian or muslim or worshippers of the pink laughing god in the sky. As it happens I object to catholic schools just as much as I do any other religious school christian islamic or pagan we quite simply should not have them. Any child has the right to reject religion. Speaking personally at that age I had already made up my mind about the existence otherwise, basically if he did exist he was an uncaring bastard I wanted nothing to do with I still remember the shock on my sunday school teachers face when I expressed that sentiment at around ten years of age (obviously the words were a bit different) she brought in the heavy guns in the form of the minister whose response was to encourage me to read more and also research the history of the bible.

    What is shocking about this story is not the children refusing to take part but a teacher who saw nothing wrong in punishing them. You get islamic bigots as well as christian ones
    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Because they were in a religious studies lesson.

    I never went to a single one after the age of 11, I opted out, they could have done so too.

    It's too late to decide which religions you want to opt out of during the lesson.
    Some interesting thoughts come to mind from all of this.

    It would be interesting to find the teacher and these two students, and get a feel for what the whole thing was really all about then.
    What was the teacher actually trying to do at the time? What did it seem like from the boys' perspective?
    What was the final take away for them?
    And was this a class the students signed up for voluntarily, or was it a mandatory class? What was the actual point of the curriculum?

    We know nothing of these questions, and can only speculate over the event, and examine it through our own personal filters.
    "The trouble with people isn't that they don't know, but that they know so much that ain't so." - Will Rogers
    "Truth isn't Truth" - Rudy Giuliani

  3. #23
    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Any news reported in the Daily Mail will be stretched further than Jackie Stallone's face
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
    Winston Churchill

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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Researching a little more.........why bring this up now ?

    Linky

    Another Linky


    It all happened back in 2008
    That Is entirely my fault, That'll teach me to take an article from another site and posting a thread while In a hurry.
    My apologies, I did not check the date of the article which I usually do.

    This however, Is recent

    http://www.jewsnews.co.il/2014/05/07...get-suspended/

  5. #25
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    When I was at school we were herded into assembly at the beginning of every day & made to sing hymns & say prayers. Even then I resented the way things were being forced on us in this way. I always saw it (and still do) as an infringement on Civil Liberties, and offensive to those of true faith. I understand that fortunately this is no longer the case in standard State schools (independently operated Religious schools are bound to have different rules, though).

    I have no problem with kids being taught about the beliefs of other cultures. That is all part & parcel of a multi-cultural tolerance & such awareness should be encouraged. However, to punish someone who doesn't wish to go through the motions of praying to a God that he is not a believer of is inexcusable. After all, if he was of the Christian / Jewish faith is there not the commandment that goes "Thou Shalt Have No Other Gods Before Me" & "Thou Shalt Not Adore False Idols" & such like? Surely being made to go through these motions would be a breach of those commandments of his own faith.

    Then there is the racial aspect which I can't help wondering about. If the situation were reversed & a Muslim, Sikh or Hindu, etc. refused to comply when told to makes prayers to the Christian idols (which, although 'forbidden' by the church continue to exist in the form of the Crucifix with or with Chist upon it), would they have been punished for refusing to do so? A case of "All are born equal, but some are more equal than others".

  6. #26
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    Because they were in a religious studies lesson.

    I never went to a single one after the age of 11, I opted out, they could have done so too.

    It's too late to decide which religions you want to opt out of during the lesson.
    Don't know if it's still the case but in scottish schools religious education used to be the only compulsory subject on the curriculum, you couldn't opt out in theory although there were ways around if if you were bloody minded enough, there used o be theoretically non denominational assemblies as well in the non catholic shools they were basiclly protestant. Sectarianism was and is still a major problem caused by the religious who insist on seperate schools and keep it alive despite the fact most people think it ridiculous and want them to end. The sight of five year olds singing the sash and learning bigotry at their parents knee is something I don't find cute, not saying we should forget the history but yo need to teach children to think for themselves not punish them when they do and refuse to conform.

    Religion is a bit different from the normal school subjects - what other subject forces you to accept the basic premise that an imaginary being exists god exists and all else is a discussion about how you worship.

    I have no problem with reliious studies, indeed I think it esntial but we do sem t b in the midst of a religious revival both islamic and christian that is likely to have us all at ech other throat if it continues. For a teacher to punsh somone for refusing to take part in a silly ritual is wrong.

    If they had refused to take part in a may day or a beltane festival because of it's pagan connotations would you think it reasonable they be punished or would you argue they had a right to object?

  7. #27
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Can I have a second bite of this cherry?

    Firstly I vote we put JJ in charge of the book burnings.

    Next...... what I think happens in those lessons........

    Last week they passed some rosaries around and taught the kids that passing the beads through your fingers is a sort of prayer.
    The week before a turban was used while teaching about Sikhism, the fashion in the playground all that week was to wrap scarves around heads.
    Before that the teacher brought in a Tibetan prayer wheel she picked up while trekking, the children thought they ought to rattle just like their young brother's and sister's did, so the noises in the classroom that day were.......strange and loud.
    It looked like a measles epidemic the week the lesson was about Hinduism.(The red spot? Bindi?)

    At no time was there any objections to these other religious traditions from the kids.
    At no time were the kids asked to convert or that the other traditions were better, it was a lesson to show the differences between religious practices.....thats all.
    I think that objecting to any of these lessons or specially one in particular, is empowering that religion.
    Islam is JUST another religion.

    @gmc Are you sure ?, English and Maths ought to be compulsory before religion or at least as well as.
    I know when I went up to 'Big school' my parents opted me out of assembly and all religious studies, these kids parents could have done the same.
    Two leery 11-12 year olds kicking off about Islam during the lesson is bad, the punishment was not worthy of the crime.

    I wonder who is pushing this agenda, is it the anti or the pro Islamist, there is only one winner and that is Islam.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  8. #28
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Putting aside the old story of the children who were punished, the Trojan Horse scandal Is very real and Is happening right now.

    Hardline Islamic extremists have Infiltrated 21 schools that they know of to date. The scandal Is that the government was alerted to this 4 years ago and did nothing.

    The report will recommend that the school's management must 'urgently improve systems for safeguarding students' through the use of the Home Office's anti-extremism policy, Prevent.
    Last night, it was revealed the school’s website describes how a lesson is devoted to jihad under a section on ‘Living The Muslim Life’.
    Pupils study topics such as ‘what is a just war?’, ‘when can Muslims take up arms?’ and ‘conditions of jihad’.


    Read more: Trojan Horse school not doing enough to combat extremism | Mail Online
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  9. #29
    Premium Member Snowfire's Avatar
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    Re: Children punished for refusing to pray to Allah

    Depends entirely on ones definition of the words/phrases used.

    To your average Daily Mail reader, the word Jihad has frightening, extremist, militaristic connotations. Whereas the true meaning of the word is a perfectly legitimate subject for Muslims to discuss.

    Why wouldn't children of any faith, or indeed, non faith discuss "what is a just war". A perfectly legitimate conversation.

    While I understand and agree that these schools are ripe for Islamists to infiltrate, I just cannot get to grips with anything the Mail has to report. They churn out scare mongering fodder and pander to Mr and Mrs Angry of Tunbridge Wells' prejudices.

    They even taint the fish and chips they wrap
    Last edited by Snowfire; 06-08-2014 at 08:45 AM. Reason: spelling
    "He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
    Winston Churchill

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