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Thread: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

  1. #21
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Aspam View Post
    Well, thanks for the quotes, it must have taken you a long time to dig them up, but in doing so you have ruined your own credibility, if it ever existed, because the verse that FOLLOWS, which you have not quoted but which we both know is there, describes the creation of the garden and the placement of the man therein.

    So your position would, unless I am missing something, be that ALL of those translations, along with the ones I cited, and along with the original, have the two events in reverse order, and there is not the slightest indication of that. If you are claiming that they MUST be in reverse order because of the description in Gen 1, that is nonsense because the two accounts are from completely different sources - PAGAN sources - so why should they be expected to agree?

    The original redactors of Genesis obviously considered both tales important enough in Hebrew prehistory to leave in more or less their skeletal form, differences not withstanding, and with some editing in order to adapt the tales to seventh-century-BC Judaism.

    I suggest that you read the introductory notes (only about 100 pages) of the Genesis volume of the Anchor Bible for a much more detailed analysis. If you claim that you are more knowledgable than Speiser, why not write your own intro and submit it to the various publishers of Biblical material? If you succeed in finding a publisher, I might even buy a copy myself.

    But this is my last contribution to this thread, because, as I stated previously, it's just going around in circles, like most of your threads.
    You misunderstand, it is not that I deny the verse that exists in verse 8, but what is in question is the wording... You want the text to read God made man "then" the garden, but that is not what it states in the Hebrew. The Hebrew states God made man, God made the Garden and God put man in the garden, the order is not specified in Chapter 2 in the Hebrew: that is the issue. Again it is like saying, "I drive a car" and "I drive a bus" the order is not specified just because I put one in front of the other, just that I do both. How many ways does a person have to explain this before you will understand that the word then is not a replacement for the word and, and that the Hebrew just states that God did both and just because they are in the order they are doesn't mean it was done in that order, just like my order of driving both a car and bus is not specified: just that I do both. You just actually don't want to hear/understand what is being said/explained to you. The order was previous explained, all that is being stated in chapter 2 is what happened during the event/events (details): not the order.

    It is too bad that you failed to hear the challenge against your argument.

  2. #22
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Aspam View Post
    But this is my last contribution to this thread, because, as I stated previously, it's just going around in circles, like most of your threads.
    I learned a long time ago that reasoning with these religious trolls is just a waste of time. For other people who might read the thread you presented your argument fairly. Well done! I lack the patience at this point.
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
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  3. #23
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

    This is an interesting topic. The Bible is first of all a religious book it is not a history book though it does contain some history. As far as translation is concerned I've been trained in both Hebrew and NT Greek. The Bible was written by Jewish folks with maybe the exception of Luke. We do not know who wrote the Gospels but that is an whole other issue. The ancient writers used "Midrash" as a style of writing and interpretation.. It makes a great deal of use of metaphor. In order to interpret the Bible one has to learn to see it through Jewish eyes. The literal reading of the Bible is a product of the past 200 years and is not a bona fide way of reading the text. (My interpretation back up by hundreds of scholars) The Jews never took it literally. Read appropriately it is a book that is a more than book. It does contain much wisdom. God did not dictate the Bible it is a human construction by ancient people trying to make their primitive language explain the inexplicable. Many books have been written about this. And for those who decry Biblical scholarship they forget we would not have the Bible if it were not for scholars. I agree with Hans Kung who put it this way ÈThe Bible is not in and of itself the Word of God but becomes for some The Word of God because God does speak to them through the very human words of the Bible. .

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    Senior Member AnneBoleyn's Avatar
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

    Nicely written Ted.

  5. #25
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post
    Nicely written Ted.
    Hear, hear. An excellent summary.

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    Senior Member Smaug's Avatar
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    Re: The Problem with Canonizing Peoples Words.

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    That has definitely "got the ring of truth" about it. Fairly and objectively put.
    Better mention it to Frodo...
    " To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.

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