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Thread: Go Iraq!

  1. #11
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    Hmmm. I haven't given it that much thought. Sounds interesting. Care to give me a “For Dummies” glimpse into some detail?
    For Iraq, and women's rights, Was Life for Iraqi Women Better Under Saddam? appears well-informed and respectable.

    For Libya and education, women's rights and prosperity, Libya: From Africa’s Richest State Under Gaddafi, to Failed State After NATO Intervention | Global Research is coherent.

    Syria was, I think, a country of two parts, the Telegraph piece at Was Syria ever the secular, non-sectarian state we are led to believe it was? – Telegraph Blogs may well have a lot going for it. Before the US-sponsored destabilization the countryside and perhaps even the majority of the population was held in check by the government, but army oppression - which undoubtedly broke out on occasion - caused far less havoc than what's replaced it. My daughter lived in Damascus for a year, five or six years ago, and felt safe enough to travel around the country and into Jordan and Lebanon. Syria has been destroyed since then, and the instigator of that destruction was US foreign policy.
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  2. #12
    Premium Member flopstock's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Iran, oddly enough, had a stable secular republican government under a chap called Mohammad Mosaddegh until a US administration paid for the overthrow of his government and the installation of a puppet regime which collapsed under the weight of public antipathy.

    Iraq oddly enough, had a stable secular republican government under a chap called Saddam Hussein until a US administration paid for the overthrow of his government and the installation of a puppet regime which collapsed under the weight of public antipathy.

    Libya, oddly enough, had a stable secular republican government under a chap called Muammar Gaddafi until a US administration paid for the overthrow of his government and the installation of a puppet regime which collapsed under the weight of public antipathy.

    Syria, oddly enough, had a stable secular republican government under a chap called Bashar al-Assad until a US administration tried to pay for the overthrow of his government and the installation of a puppet regime, which would collapse under the weight of public antipathy if it ever gets installed.

    And you wonder why most of the Middle East contemptuously detests US administrations? Have you no imagination?

    You actually cared for that greed-driven torture-loving satrap Mohammad Pahlavi?
    How is it possible to have read all of that between my two lines?

    The question was if you thought that these folks working together, is not what has been needed in the area?
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  3. #13
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    How do you define stability, though? Or more to the point, how do you define ACCEPTABLE stability. After all it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking, before the U.S. Civil War when the rich land owners had their farms worked by the slaves, many of whom were born into bondage & servitude & bred for that very purpose. For many years this was a regime that could be described as being stable. The land owners knew their place, and the slaves knew their place, and life went on smoothly. Stable, yes. Acceptably stable? By today's standards, of course not. Hussain may not have had the WMDs he was accused of having, but there was no doubt that he was guilty of genocide. Still, it was a stable Government. So, what if a few million got massacred? It had the end result of maintaing the Government stability.

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    there was no doubt that he was guilty of genocide. Still, it was a stable Government. So, what if a few million got massacred?
    Iraq under Saddam Hussein fought a proxy war on behalf of the US - back when he was the Arab Poster Boy for the US agencies - in which millions died. Is that the "massacred" you mean? Because apart from that I doubt whether Iraq under Saddam Hussein killed even a hundred thousand people, an order of magnitude fewer than Iraqis who died as a direct consequence of US sanctions between the Gulf War and the Iraq War.

    As for "there was no doubt that he was guilty of genocide" I honestly have no idea what you refer to, not even which group of people you think he genocided. Do you mean the 5,000 killed on one day by chemical attack during the Iran-Iraq war? That's not genocide, that's unacceptable warfare killing too many civilians. Maybe you mean something else.
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    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by flopstock View Post
    How is it possible to have read all of that between my two lines?

    The question was if you thought that these folks working together, is not what has been needed in the area?
    You said you liked the Shah, a notion I found revolting. The Iranians found his governance so revolting there's been a popularly-supported theocracy in Iran ever since the Shah was toppled from power, that's how revolting the Iranians found him. He did not govern in the interests of Iran's population at all, he governed Iran on behalf of the USA. If I had a picture of him here I'd use it to line my shoe shelf.

    Were I an Iraqi Shia minister I'd try very hard to persuade Iran to form a permanent federalist state with Eastern Iraq, and let Tikrit-Mosul solve its own problems. I might even arm the Iraqi Kurds as a parting gesture of goodwill.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  6. #16
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    For Iraq, and women's rights, Was Life for Iraqi Women Better Under Saddam? appears well-informed and respectable.
    The crust of lies and deception from the U.S. I know and understand very well, but the situation at the Iraki community level is more tragic than I had imagined.

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I was only slightly aware of Ghaddafi's successes. I was in Libya for a short stay during the NO-FLY period and I saw thousands of workers from the Mahgreb and sub-Saharan countries. Something must have been good.

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Syria was, I think, a country of two parts, the Telegraph piece at Was Syria ever the secular, non-sectarian state we are led to believe it was? – Telegraph Blogs may well have a lot going for it. Before the US-sponsored destabilization the countryside and perhaps even the majority of the population was held in check by the government, but army oppression - which undoubtedly broke out on occasion - caused far less havoc than what's replaced it. My daughter lived in Damascus for a year, five or six years ago, and felt safe enough to travel around the country and into Jordan and Lebanon. Syria has been destroyed since then, and the instigator of that destruction was US foreign policy.
    Mostly over my head (this last one) but you have proven your point on all three. I know the U.S. is bent on confiscating anything and everything of worth and they have no humanitarian concerns what-so-ever. But what I haven't figured out is from what crack in the floor were Thatcher and Blair spawned?

  7. #17
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    How do you define stability, though?
    Well .......

    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    Or more to the point, how do you define ACCEPTABLE stability.
    Uhhhh .....


    Quote Originally Posted by FourPart View Post
    After all it wasn't that long ago, relatively speaking, before the U.S. Civil War when the rich land owners had their farms worked by the slaves, many of whom were born into bondage & servitude & bred for that very purpose. For many years this was a regime that could be described as being stable. The land owners knew their place, and the slaves knew their place, and life went on smoothly. Stable, yes. Acceptably stable? By today's standards, of course not. Hussain may not have had the WMDs he was accused of having, but there was no doubt that he was guilty of genocide. Still, it was a stable Government. So, what if a few million got massacred? It had the end result of maintaing the Government stability.
    You've just answered your own question and by debate we are now at the point where Saddam's, Gaddaffi's and Assad's nations enjoyed ACCEPTABLE stability and on the rise.

  8. #18
    Premium Member flopstock's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    You said you liked the Shah, a notion I found revolting. The Iranians found his governance so revolting there's been a popularly-supported theocracy in Iran ever since the Shah was toppled from power, that's how revolting the Iranians found him. He did not govern in the interests of Iran's population at all, he governed Iran on behalf of the USA. If I had a picture of him here I'd use it to line my shoe shelf.

    Were I an Iraqi Shia minister I'd try very hard to persuade Iran to form a permanent federalist state with Eastern Iraq, and let Tikrit-Mosul solve its own problems. I might even arm the Iraqi Kurds as a parting gesture of goodwill.
    Here in this thread I said that?
    I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
    Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.

  9. #19
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

    Quote Originally Posted by High Threshold View Post
    But what I haven't figured out is from what crack in the floor were Thatcher and Blair spawned?
    Thatcher was just a force of nature, much like typhoons or syphilis.

    I suspect many of the Labour cabinet, including Tony Blair, were blackmailed into toeing the American line. I'll offer a couple of paragraphs from a web page I found by googling cia blackmail politicians British "new Labour" junior promote.
    When Tony Blair took office following a landslide victory in 1997, few commentators would have suggested that this man would be willing to drag his country into a war of unjustified aggression against a people that have done no harm to the British public. Nor would anyone have surmised that a Labour government would hitch its political fortunes to a shabby cabal of fanatical neoconservative Zionists working to make real their much-touted biblical Armageddon. And no one could have predicted that Blair’s nominally “Christian” administration would transform itself into a licentious club of flamboyant homosexual cruisers and out-of-control paedophiles.

    But it is now becoming shockingly clear that the slavish adherence of Tony Blair and Jack Straw to the Bush line on Iraq may have less to do with principled arguments, and much more to do with the fear of CIA and FBI revelations that would make them two of the most hated politicians in modern British political history.

    The SCUM: Tony Blair
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  10. #20
    Senior Member AnneBoleyn's Avatar
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    Re: Go Iraq!

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    Originally Posted by spot
    You said you liked the Shah


    No she didn't say she liked the Shah. She said she didn't like the Iranians since the hostage thing. I didn't like the Shah, & I don't like a religious theocracy any better. Don't put words in her mouth, or mine either.

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