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Thread: Blackface

  1. #11
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    To be honest I know less of Zwarte Piet, but I understand he is Santa Claus helper that happens to be black.
    The story isn't racist but the caricature imagery grotesquely parodies happy blackery down on the old plantation in the Dutch East Indies just as much as the Minstrel Show did for the Confederacy.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member FourPart's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    That Golli***s have been banned is actually just an urban myth. However, I can't help wondering if the original Rupert books have been banned and / or removed from print, as they were unbelievably racist with the wicked ****s of **** Island. Of course, when I was a kid, reading these books there was absolutely no consideration of racism. Even then we could recognise these characters as being totally fictional & not relevant to real life characters.

    The question really lies in whether or not Political Correctness can be allowed to 'burn the books' of historical classics, such as this. If so, where does it stop? Would Othello be banned from the libraries / stage?

    Politically Incorrect 5: **** Island

  3. #13
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I've had a good search but I can't find any reference to this on a news site - do you know where you saw it?


    Teenage girl killed herself amid fears she would be branded racist over joke photo she sent friends, inquest hears


    Damn right they were! You only need recall the program and the performances to know perfectly well that the reaction was hardcore racist from one end of Britain to the other!
    While there is no doubt that at the time, the creators and writers of the show, deliberately parodied and characterized black American's, the assumption that millions of people enjoyed the show for the same reasons, can not be proven. Those millions who watched it, are just the ordinary public. Millions of people did not tune in just to see black Americans lampooned, but because in that era, there was a element of the old time music halls lingering and that just happened to be what people enjoyed in the 60's.

  4. #14
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by Momus View Post
    While there is no doubt that at the time, the creators and writers of the show, deliberately parodied and characterized black American's, the assumption that millions of people enjoyed the show for the same reasons, can not be proven. Those millions who watched it, are just the ordinary public. Millions of people did not tune in just to see black Americans lampooned, but because in that era, there was a element of the old time music halls lingering and that just happened to be what people enjoyed in the 60's.
    I wouldn't dream of trying to prove it. I was there, and my culturally-induced attitude to Africans whether they lived in Africa or in the UK was racist by assumption. It was based solely on the opinion of society at large and it was, in retrospect, utterly disgusting. It conditioned my inherent support for segregation in the USA, apartheid in South Africa and I'd have been ostracised by my acquaintances had I thought any different. I definitely didn't know anyone who said they thought different.

    If you look back for a link to the news story from last week, I'd be grateful.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    It conditioned my inherent support for segregation in the USA, apartheid in South Africa and I'd have been ostracised by my acquaintances had I thought any different......................................... ........... I definitely didn't know anyone who said they thought different.
    Bloody What ?????
    Black and white minstrel show.........conditioned your inherent support ?????
    You sir are very easily lead, and must have a feeble grasp of life's realities.......and change your friends, they are a bad influence.

    I remember clearly my shock and horror at news of Sharpville astounded at Watts riots, felt ashamed when I learned of re-classifications amongst families in South Africa, the 'pencil in the hair' test and the spread of nostrils splitting families. The 'Pass Laws' the Soweto massacre, moved me as much as Frejus, Aberfan and Agadir.

    And all the time I watched and enjoyed Tony Mercer 'blacking up' to sing on a Saturday evening.
    I have said this before, and I still think it....................one day it will be alright to use the race of your opponent in an argument, the same as today you might use the hair colour or body shape such as "Shut up you long haired fat git"

    We are still a long long way from that time as yet. But changing black board to chalk board and other such over sensitivities will not help.
    There are as many black people 'Playing' the race game as there are anally retentive 'right on' whites 'feeling their pain'..............only time and hopefully future generations will change things.
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  6. #16
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruv View Post
    the same as today you might use the hair colour or body shape such as "Shut up you long haired fat git"
    Good lord, you don't really think people can do that do you?

    I was married and renovating a house in London when the Soweto massacre happened. My earlier comment describes 1960. Before Kennedy, before Martin Luther King, before Montgomery, it's a very accurate statement of fact and I definitely heard nothing about Sharpeville at the time.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  7. #17
    Senior Member Bruv's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Good lord, you don't really think people can do that do you?

    I was married and renovating a house in London when the Soweto massacre happened. My earlier comment describes 1960. Before Kennedy, before Martin Luther King, before Montgomery, it's a very accurate statement of fact and I definitely heard nothing about Sharpeville at the time.
    The Black and white minstrel show ran from 58 to 78......so all the events were in that timescale.

    There was massive support in the UK to end apartheid despite The Minstrel show................how do you explain that ?
    I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth

  8. #18
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    It's 1960 I was describing from personal memory. By all means we can go through the entire period you've indicated, saying what changed in each year, but back in 1960 that's how I saw it. The BBC was describing terrorist ANC attacks and everyone thought white supremacy was God's appointed natural order. You needed to be Trevor Huddleston to think different.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  9. #19
    Banned Momus's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I wouldn't dream of trying to prove it. I was there, and my culturally-induced attitude to Africans whether they lived in Africa or in the UK was racist by assumption. It was based solely on the opinion of society at large and it was, in retrospect, utterly disgusting. It conditioned my inherent support for segregation in the USA, apartheid in South Africa and I'd have been ostracised by my acquaintances had I thought any different. I definitely didn't know anyone who said they thought different.

    If you look back for a link to the news story from last week, I'd be grateful.
    I posted the link for you in my prior post last night. I posted it under your first paragraph asking for it. Here it is again.

    Teenage girl killed herself amid fears she would be branded racist over joke photo she sent friends, inquest hears

    My theory as to whether it was or was not racist, is based on perception. Today, all perception will concur, it was racist. Five decades ago, because our leaders and politicians were not telling us, that it was racist, did we know it was racist? If racism decades ago was not a crime, then those watching it, would be ignorant to the fact that it was.
    Further more, 50 years ago, there was little immigration nor the global migration we see today. In today's society, in a multi cultural environment, where we are in daily contact with black African's, we know that the manner in which black Americans were portrayed in the show, is not indicative of that race. We would recognise immediately watching the show today, that it was lampooning black Americans. Yet, 50 years ago, the average British probably had no idea of how black Americans acted and behaved and most, in that era, hadn't yet come into contact with them to know the show was sending them up.

  10. #20
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Blackface

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    Quote Originally Posted by Momus View Post
    I posted the link for you in my prior post last night. I posted it under your first paragraph asking for it. Here it is again.
    Ah. You put it inside my quote, I didn't look at the content of my quote, I thought I'd written what was in there.

    I note neither the BBC nor the Guardian reported anything about this.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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