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Thread: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

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    Zero mod strikes. HAH!!! YZGI's Avatar
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post
    From CNN on Warren's claims:

    "Did it play a role in her career?
    Harvard Law School in the 1990s touted Warren, then a professor in Cambridge, as being "Native American." They singled her out, Warren later acknowledged, because she had listed herself as a minority in an Association of American Law Schools directory. Critics note that she had not done that in her student applications and during her time as a teacher at the University of Texas.
    Warren maintains she never furthered her career by using her heritage to gain advantage, and an in-depth investigation by the Boston Globe, published on September 1, found the same.
    "At every step of her remarkable rise in the legal profession," the report read, "the people responsible for hiring her saw her as a white woman."
    How did this become a political issue?
    It began during Warren's 2012 Senate run, when her opponent, Brown, accused her of lying to get a leg up in her academic career.
    "Professor Warren claimed that she was a Native American, a person of color," he said during a debate. "And as you can see, she's not."
    Warren shot back that she had not gained any "advantage" -- a claim that has proven impossible to fact check -- and in a subsequent ad again cited family lore."
    https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/polit...tas/index.html

    Personally, I have some stake in this game. My son is one-eighth Native American, (or First Peoples, as his tribe of origin is Canadian.) We did some research before he entered college and found the Native American label was not generally recognized after 1/16 or in rarer cases, 1/32. I think Senator Warren's claim should be one of family pride only.

    BTW, my mother considered her grandson to be Jewish, cause I am!

    Besides:
    "Six million Americans who describe themselves as white have some African ancestry, according to a new study. In percentage terms, that means that roughly 3.5 percent of self-described white Americans have 1 percent or more African ancestry............. Southern whites are considerably more likely to have African ancestry than whites from other regions: "European Americans with African ancestry comprise as much as 12% of European Americans from Louisiana and South Carolina and about 1 in 10 individuals in other parts of the South."
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.d9294bb34ce0

    Doubt if most of these folks want to label themselves black.
    I think a lot of those southerners would love to be labeled Black if they can get benefits for it.

    She purposely claimed to be Native American, with no more lineage that she has, it's shameful at the very least. There is only one reason to do so when you are 1/1,024th Native American and that is to benefit either professionally or politically.

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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    Quote Originally Posted by YZGI View Post
    I think a lot of those southerners would love to be labeled Black if they can get benefits for it.

    She purposely claimed to be Native American, with no more lineage that she has, it's shameful at the very least. There is only one reason to do so when you are 1/1,024th Native American and that is to benefit either professionally or politically.
    That's not accurate, if I understand you correctly.

    Warren didn't know until the DNA test what percentage of NA she was. Her belief was based on family lore.

    And that's the point. What anyone has ever identified as prior to DNA testing is what they were. The proof of what someone claimed was based mostly on their appearance and/or whatever documentation, like family albums or lore they could produce.

    Warren's claims weren't outside the norm. It's when Trump made an issue of it, that, to her credit, she went and did the testing, and then again to her credit, she published the results, probably knowing they would cause her criticism.

    At least Warren is a person who can be trusted to be honest and forthcoming.
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    She's late middle age now, I think? Talking about her grandmother? We're going back 100 years then aren't we? If one of your grandparents at that time was black did you sit in the white seats or the black seats? Ok in this case we're talking Native American but doesn't the same principle apply?
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    It's interesting how Trump handles numbers. The actual higher bound estimate is 1/32. Trump aways picks the number he likes, and usually inflates it. This is a rare case where Trump actually got a number even half correct.

    Also most people who take these tests are white. So there's not even a lot of data on genetic markers for native Americans. Meaning she may have additiona NA markers that are unknown to science.

    As for tests themselves, Trump is very ignorant to call it junk science. I took one test (ancestry) over the summer. Ended up finding a couple people who were relatives I didn't know about. One person knew my grandmother, and others listed out people I knew from my family tree.

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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    Quote Originally Posted by YZGI View Post
    If I were him I would pay her $976.63 (1/1024 of a million), I believe if my math is correct (it's probably not).
    It's a range of percentages, so at minimum it would need to average out 1/32 and 1/1024. That comes out to at least $16,000.

    I remember Trump's position was that Warren had no NA heritage. He's good at moving the goal posts and not paying people. What was the point of his boast if he could not pay?

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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    Quote Originally Posted by yaaarrrgg View Post
    Also most people who take these tests are white. So there's not even a lot of data on genetic markers for native Americans. Meaning she may have additional NA markers that are unknown to science.
    That's true. The data base is only as good as its participants.

    It's a bit unnerving that there isn't a central data base for this, but instead, each company has it's own.
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    I'm of the opinion that it doesn't matter what percentage is what. What matters is how a person chooses to identify themselves. Outside the playground this is never an issue once we mature. Who cares how you or I identify ourselves, and why should anyone make any sort of issue of it?

    That Trump decided to make this an issue without specifying a minimum percentage required and put his money where his mouth is, he should pay up. He was incorrect. He lost the bet. Sometimes 9 as a high card wins.
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    I don't know about her European ancestry but if it was eastern European or Russian there is a strong possibility there will be mongol dna somewhere in her lineage, in other words first nation/native american dna is present in europeans just not from the americas.

    Trump is a ginger I have seen it suggested that is neanderthal dna showing through although methinks that is a rather dunious claim to make.

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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

    This is a pretty informative video on why NA DNA is so small. It doesn't address the fact that the line is very small for NA DNA though.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=geE7zsehccY
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    Re: Trump Reneging On Charity Promise

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    I've been curious why some Native American officials have been so offended by this incident, so I started reading around.

    I came across this ABC article and found what I think is the issue with some of them. It's encroachment on their assets (for lack of a better word). Notice Tallbear's protectionist rhetoric. Emphasis mine.

    Tallbear, an assistant professor of Native Studies at the University of Alberta, has long been one of the most strident critics of Warren's genealogy claims.

    Tallbear, who recently authored "Native American DNA: Origins, Ethics, and Governance," assailed Warren’s DNA test campaign this week, contending that her strategy is a cynical one, though consistent with Tallbear's experience in recent years as gene-testing technology has evolved.

    She said she objects to how Warren maintains she's not seeking tribal membership or affiliation while simultaneously touting scientific evidence about her bloodline.

    "Elizabeth Warren and genome scientists ... get to have it both ways," Tallbear said in a statement pinned to her Twitter feed on Tuesday. "They know very well that the broader US public will understand a DNA test to be a true indication of Elizabeth Warren's right to claim Native American identity in some way."

    "The broader US public knows nothing about tribal citizenship and histories of settler-colonial meddling in our laws. The broader US public is also invested…in making what are ultimately settler-colonial claims to all things Indigenous: our bones, blood, land, waters, and ultimately our identities."

    Cherokee Nation Secretary of State Chuck Hoskin, Jr. released an equally embittered statement about Warren's press conference this week.

    "Using a DNA test to lay claim to any connection to the Cherokee Nation or any tribal nation, even vaguely, is inappropriate and wrong," Hoskin Jr. said.

    "It makes a mockery out of DNA tests and [their] legitimate uses, while also dishonoring legitimate tribal governments and their citizens, whose ancestors are well-documented and whose heritage is proven. Senator Warren," he added, "is undermining tribal interests with her continued claims of tribal heritage."

    Tallbear said she has long been frustrated by Warren's claims.
    What I read in the above quote is that the fear is that through DNA testing more people will qualify as Native American and thus will increase claims to NA assets thus diluting the membership of tribes thereby negating certain (and many) exclusive rights and claims.

    This is understandable, though I think it would be helpful to articulate that more openly so that it can be more widely understood. As it is now it appears they are attacking Warren personally, which I don't think they really want to do, but feel they need to in order to forcefully defend their exclusive rights (and assets).
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
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