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Thread: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

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    Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...d-at-holyrood/

    Scottish Independence referendum bill published at Holyrood.

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    That could be interpreted by the English as a carrot, whether it's meant as one or not.

    As in "Promise us a section 30 permit to run this referendum and we'll give you our votes at Westminster so you can get your English Brexit plan through". I don't see how else you'll get Westminster approval for the proposed independence referendum and you can't hold it unilaterally.

    Is it an attempt at swinging a deal? English Brexit in exchange for Scottish independence and the local choice to remain in Europe?
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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    That could be interpreted by the English as a carrot, whether it's meant as one or not.

    As in "Promise us a section 30 permit to run this referendum and we'll give you our votes at Westminster so you can get your English Brexit plan through". I don't see how else you'll get Westminster approval for the proposed independence referendum and you can't hold it unilaterally.

    Is it an attempt at swinging a deal? English Brexit in exchange for Scottish independence and the local choice to remain in Europe?
    Only if you are deluided and don't understand scottish politics. Not least because no one would trust the tories to stick to what they promised - see the vow etc etc. We don't need to do deals and in any case the rest of the uk out of the eu will leave us with a neighbour in economic decline.

    If the tories don't allow a second referendum all that will happen is that pro indpendence sentiment will grow in scotland. They cannot claim the right tio take back control and then turn round and claim the scots don't haver that right as well. Scottish indpendemnce terrifies the westminster establishment they know they can't go it alone. The scots are an actual constituent part of the UK the snp are the thirs largest party in westminster and the second largest political party by membership numbers and if fargage gets a seat at the negotiating table while the snp do not the result will be a break up of the united kingdom with northern ireland possibly uniting with the rest of ireland. Note what happened to the dup vote in the european elections.

    We just don't like fascists in scotland. Another general election is likely to see both labour and tory wiped out in scotland.

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    We don't need to do deals
    On the contrary. Without a Westminster deal to approve the proposed Scottish Independence Second Referendum there can be no such referendum. Local government in Barcelona tried running an unauthorized equivalent, the Catalan independence referendum of 2017, and those leaders are still in Spanish jails as a result. You'll wait a lifetime for an authorized referendum if you don't offer anything in exchange - like support for English Brexit, perhaps. I suggested that as a possible deal because it's big enough to be accepted.
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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    On the contrary. Without a Westminster deal to approve the proposed Scottish Independence Second Referendum there can be no such referendum. Local government in Barcelona tried running an unauthorized equivalent, the Catalan independence referendum of 2017, and those leaders are still in Spanish jails as a result. You'll wait a lifetime for an authorized referendum if you don't offer anything in exchange - like support for English Brexit, perhaps. I suggested that as a possible deal because it's big enough to be accepted.
    Like I said you don't understand scottish politics or the fact that the treaty of union between scotland and the rest of the UK was a union of two seperate countries - we still have separate legal and educational systems and part of the bull**** that was spouted during the last referendum was about how we are a valued partner in tye union not a subservient part, scotland is not scotlandshire it is one of the constituent compnents of the united kingdom. To suggest that we cannnot choose to end that union -( just as the UK can unilaterally leave the eu)- if we choose as some brexiteers seem to be doing is hypocrirical to put it mildly. We don't need to offer anything the scottish government has a clear mandate to puirsue a second referendum if circumstamces change as they quite clearly have and will if we get dragged out of the eu against our will. There are othyerv issies for negotiation like when are you going to remoce your nuclear submarines, should we pursue compensation for all the damage done to the scottish economy by westminster squandering the oil revenues what trade agreemnment should we have with you.

    The only real parallel between catalan and scotland is that they are up agaijnst a fascist spanish government and we are up against a fascist westminster one.

    You have to ask yourself why does the prospect of scottish indpendence terrify westminster so much if we are indeed such a drain on the economy as the likes of boris johnston seem to think.

    Can you give me any reasons why we should continue with the union other than westminster will throw all it's toys out the pram and try and stop us? When I say you will not see this discussed in mainstream media I really do mean that, all you get is soundbites that tell you veryu little.

    Brexit is going to lead to the end of the united kingdom as a political entity, the loss of the seat on the security council and the almost complete destruction of the UK economy. I still meet brexiteers that believe the canard that german car manufacturers will not want to lose the UK market. They can't seem to grasp that they won't lose it because we will still have to but their cars as there will be no indigenous car industry. Mini prodiuction looks likely to move to czechoslovakia nissan to france and toyota can benefirt from afree trade agreement between japan and the eu (which we will not be party to) the crunch will come when it comes time to replace the curremnt mdel line up. - We will have no choice but to buy the now more expensive cars or ratyher those who have jobs and afford them.

    Incidentally shutting down a UK factory is less exoensive than shutting down a UK one - remember that social contract the tories got us an exemption from so investors wouldn't be put off from investing in the UK? No redundancy payments for british workers.

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    My own opinion is that Scotland would be far better placed if it were independent of the UK, I have no problem with the idea.

    I do wonder what you think Section 30 is though, if not a legal prohibition enforceable in the courts against running the Second Scottish Independence Referendum without Westminster's authority. That's just what it is. It makes no difference whether anyone thinks it's a good or just idea.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    My own opinion is that Scotland would be far better placed if it were independent of the UK, I have no problem with the idea.

    I do wonder what you think Section 30 is though, if not a legal prohibition enforceable in the courts against running the Second Scottish Independence Referendum without Westminster's authority. That's just what it is. It makes no difference whether anyone thinks it's a good or just idea.
    I know what section 30 is and the snp are not proposing to just go ahead without one but if brexit goes ahead and farage gets a seat at the table and the snp don't then not granting a section 30 order would make scottish independence a certainty - it's by no means clear that there is enough support at the moment. If labour the tories and the lib dems all stand in the way their support is likely to decline somewhat.

    This might help clarify things a bit

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...t/?ref=mr&lp=3

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...s-westminster/

    Methinks they are beginning to wake up to the very real possibility of scottish independence.

    "He said that independence for Scotland had been “honestly and expertly discussed” in the run-up to the 2014 vote just as the issues had been debated before the Brexit vote and in both cases the voters had come to the “right” conclusion. "

    The sad thing is I thik he believes it

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

    May undertakes review of devolution - without involving any of the devolved administrations.

    https://www.thenational.scot/politic...cola-sturgeon/

    https://www.thenational.scot/news/17...-independence/

    “The job of prime minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland brings with it privileges and responsibilities which you only really feel once the black door closes behind you.

    “One of the first and greatest is the duty you owe to strengthen the Union.

    “To govern on behalf of the whole United Kingdom, to respect the identities of every citizen of the UK – English and Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish.

    “And to ensure that we can go on facing the future together, overcoming obstacles together, and achieving more together than we ever could apart – a union of nations and people.”

    Honestly I don't know whether she (may that is) actually believes what she says or whether she is just a complete idiot.

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    Re: Things you won't see mentioned in the mainstream media - yet

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    700th anniversary of the declaration of arbroath. sssh!

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