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Thread: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

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    On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    I have, I think, a way forward.

    The Republic of Ireland and the UK are, until Halloween, both members of the same European Union and as such have no customs border or regulation disparity with each other.

    The UK will stop being a member of the EU at the end of October.

    It is a political necessity that there should continue to be no restriction of the movement of goods and services between the Republic of Ireland and the whole of the UK.

    The UK never signed up to the Schengen agreement on movement. Currently there is no freedom of movement between the EU and UK, passport control applies and is enforced. Except across the border with the Republic of Ireland. A political agreement allows passport-free transit of anyone across that border. Anyone who can get to Dublin from within mainland EU can then proceed to Belfast without any form of documentation whatever. From Dublin into a UK airport you have, I believe, to show a passport. From Dublin into England by way of the Holyhead ferry there's no passport control, to the best of my knowledge.

    So this back door already exists for people. It was done as a deal specific to that border. Nobody finds this odd.

    I see no reason why the EU should not allow Dublin to agree an extension to this process and to apply a zero-tariff policy to all goods moving anywhere on the island of Ireland, and to fictitiously assume an equivalence of regulations. If it subsequently physically finds its way across into England or back the other way then that's also just an anomaly, like moving people. It's not going to affect tariffs on goods between the UK and Europe physically travelling by any other route.

    I think this completely solves the backstop issue and makes any trade agreement between the UK and any other country immediately accessible.

    The Good Friday agreement created a fiction, Brexit just needs to create another similar fiction.
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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    Ireland isn't in the schengen agreement either the soft border only works because both the uk and ireland are in the eu and it's noy just about the movement of people also bear in mind norther ireland voted to remain.

    Goods entering the eu from outside have to be checked to ensure they meet eu standards - for instance once we start importing UShowmone treated beef beef the eu will want to make sure it doesn't get to the eu by the back door.. The eu will be imposing tariffs on uk goods as will the uk be imposing tariffs on eu goods to do all that checking will require a hard border unless some other arrangement can be made and the back stop was Theresa may's idea not the eu's it was parliament that refused to endorse the deal sending her in to rabbit in headlights mode.

    We trade freely with europe because we meet all the eu standards post brexit the only way to ensure we still comply is by physical checks. Yes you can track containers electrinocally but how do you track that the contents are actually what they say they are?

    This is only part of the problem most of our food is imported and on the shelves within a week of being picked, now it will have to clear custims and checked that all necessary tariffs have been paid. Goodbye cheap food and no we can't grow all our own.

    Your bigger problem is when scotland becomes independent you need us far more than we need you.

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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    I don't see anything in either of those posts which contradicts a word in the other.
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    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    "I see no reason why the EU should not allow Dublin to agree an extension to this process and to apply a zero-tariff policy to all goods moving anywhere on the island of Ireland, and to fictitiously assume an equivalence of regulations. If it subsequently physically finds its way across into England or back the other way then that's also just an anomaly, like moving people. It's not going to affect tariffs on goods between the UK and Europe physically travelling by any other route."

    They did it is called the back stop.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-0hoO_23cY

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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    They did it is called the back stop.
    I think you missed the "fictitiously". The backdrop demands that the equivalence of regulations is factual. The regulations can only be factually equivalent if the UK remains in lockstep with the EU, adopting identical EU regulations at the same time as the EU. We're not talking about the EU adopting UK regulations, it's solely the other way around.

    There are other approaches which would work but I think my proposal in the opening post is the most feasible. An alternative equally simple answer would be for the Republic to leave the EU on the same date as the UK leaves but that would perhaps raise complaints south of the border.

    It is the actual demand by the EU that the UK must continue to implement EU regulations indefinitely after Brexit that is the underlying problem. That problem disappears if the UK rejects the backstop demand. At the moment the only way of rejecting it is to leave with no settlement, because the EU will not at the moment negotiate any alternative.
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    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    I didn't miss it I just think it nonsensical.

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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    I didn't miss it I just think it nonsensical.
    In what way is this back door for goods and services any more nonsensical than letting anyone, regardless of origin, who has physically set foot in the Republic have a right of travel into all parts of the UK without producing any paperwork whatever? We've lived with that for twenty years.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    In what way is this back door for goods and services any more nonsensical than letting anyone, regardless of origin, who has physically set foot in the Republic have a right of travel into all parts of the UK without producing any paperwork whatever? We've lived with that for twenty years.
    Because anyone landing in an irish airport will have gone through the security checks at both the point of departure and arrival. Goods currently entering or leavinmg ireland have met all the necessary checks at the point of origin, meet all the necassary standards and will have the necessary documentation on them.French german british p[olish etc lorries crossing borderts carry reams of documentation and be be fully searched at any time. Not least to make sure there are no illegal imkmigranmts hidden inside.

    Goods from outside the eu go through rigorous checks. The UK will not be part of the EU therefore no more seamless passage hence the need for a hard border. The hard border is in calais, and zeebrugge and all the other ports ireland just happens tro be on the same island as northern ireland. Brexiteers are just kidding themselves that there isn't a probem. Ireland is an independent country to expect them to give in to bullying from the UK is ridiculous and they have the full backing of the eu.

    The UK is choosing to leave the eu that means all free trade deals we have through the EU will be null and void. As a European Union member, the UK is part of about 40 trade agreements which the union has with more than 70 countries. If the UK leaves the EU in a no-deal Brexit it will immediately lose these deals. The sheer stupidity of the brexiteers beggars belief

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    Lightbulb Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    If the UK leaves the EU in a no-deal Brexit it will immediately lose these deals. The sheer stupidity of the brexiteers beggars belief
    There are several threads running about Brexit. The only reason I started this one was to see what alternative possibilities would avoid leaving with no agreement. I was looking for the underlying cause and a way round it.

    The one thing the EU insists on is that there should be no barrier to trade across the island of Ireland. That's their line in the sand.

    My opening post offers a British agreement to this absolute EU's demand at the same time as acceptance by the EU of the British position that no more EU regulations should be imposed on Britain after leaving.

    What I proposed would, in fact, actually work. Nothing in my post suggested that Brexit is desirable.

    People landing in an airport in the Republic of Ireland have not cleared British security. The list of people Britain would refuse entry to has nothing to do with the entry requirements of the Republic. Despite that, Britain tolerates anyone present on Irish soil having access to the UK mainland without a British identity check. The border is open to the uninspected movement of people. I suggest it should be open to the uninspected movement of goods too, and that the EU should grant fictional acceptance that the goods conform to EU regulations just as Britain grants the fictional acceptance that visitors crossing the border into Northern Ireland have permission to enter the UK.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: On the solution of the Northern Ireland backstop

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    What brexiteers can't seem to grasp (and I kmow you are not one my apologies if I gave inadvertant offence) is that the eu are trying to implememt our decision to leave. The backstop was theresa mays idea not the eu's.

    Peop[le entyering ireland have cleared security. It is no dofferent from you entering at a french post and then driving to germany. What will be different is the UK wants to stop the free movement of people from the eu entering the uk. It's not the irish that are causing the problem.

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