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Thread: Where is God and Christ?

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    That's fine, that's helpful.

    So we have the cow, for instance. You would agree it is alive, it can eat, sit, turn left or right. It can chase someone across a field to defend its calf. Are these functions you would attribute in humans to conscious choice? Human and cow have evolved from a common ancestor which could also do all of things.

    Does this mean that most of the actions we humans take are not, in fact, conscious? That they're automatic and we have no control over them? Are they not part of our personality? [quote}


    I think we do many things that we are not conscious of. For example, while driving a car, much we do, we are not conscious of doing it. We are driving and looking at the traffic , but at the same time there is much we do, but are not conscious of doing it . We subconsciously make sure we do not steer towards the curb. We turn the music on , we are wiping our face, chewing some gum, gripping the wheel while changing hands. All automatically unconsciously doing it. Playing the piano ; the artist is using both hands , using his feet, singing, looking at the audience, remembering his words in the song , breathing correctly while singing , making sure he plays the right notes. Much of this he unconsciously does.


    [ quote];
    Or do we need a modified view of what is conscious and what isn't, to provide something exclusive to humans. I'm happy to explore whichever path you would like to take here.

    A further problem is that brain damage from a stroke at a given location can prevent a person from speaking, or understanding speech, or remembering names for example. If those are all brain functions as opposed to an aspect of spirit, what are we narrowing spirit down to? Has spirit anything at all to do with recollection, when recollection can be affected by brain damage? I take it you don't regard a nail in the head as capable of causing damage to a spirit.
    ;;

    Oh no , as I have said, I think the physical brain and the spirit are working together closely , our conscious thought and the brain, is like putting cool aid and sugar together, they join and exist as a pair. The consciousness feels the pain inflicted and is part of the physical damage.

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    ;;

    Oh no , as I have said, I think the physical brain and the spirit are working together closely , our conscious thought and the brain, is like putting cool aid and sugar together, they join and exist as a pair. The consciousness feels the pain inflicted and is part of the physical damage.
    Perhaps you could describe what difference would be apparent if a human had no spirit. What would be missing to an external observer.
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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Perhaps you could describe what difference would be apparent if a human had no spirit. What would be missing to an external observer.

    That would be quite something. Perhaps they would be like the first humans , if we subtract their ability to reason and learn. Empty them of emotion and drain their talents, then we would have something close to what you suggest.

    It may surprise you, but I seriously doubt that early man was conscious anyway. I think they were highly in tune with their senses , but just not conscious as we are. Some of my friends think I am nuts for believing that, but I have my reasons.

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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    That would be quite something. Perhaps they would be like the first humans , if we subtract their ability to reason and learn. Empty them of emotion and drain their talents, then we would have something close to what you suggest.

    It may surprise you, but I seriously doubt that early man was conscious anyway. I think they were highly in tune with their senses , but just not conscious as we are. Some of my friends think I am nuts for believing that, but I have my reasons.
    I can certainly provide evidence for dogs reasoning and learning and showing emotion and displaying talents. I'm not anthropomorphising, these attributes can be clearly demonstrated. Would you like each of them or can we accept that the evidence exists?

    If the evidence exists, why do you list them as characteristics of spirit as opposed to brain?
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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I can certainly provide evidence for dogs reasoning and learning and showing emotion and displaying talents. I'm not anthropomorphising, these attributes can be clearly demonstrated. Would you like each of them or can we accept that the evidence exists?

    If the evidence exists, why do you list them as characteristics of spirit as opposed to brain?
    , I have seen it for myself..
    We can except the evidence exist.


    Human emotion and reasoning plus talents are far superior than animals , can we agree on that?

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    , I have seen it for myself..
    We can except the evidence exist.


    Human emotion and reasoning plus talents are far superior than animals , can we agree on that?
    Undoubtedly, though some might think emotions run at a similar level.

    So the presence of spirit is apparent by the enhanced reasoning and learning and showing emotion and displaying of talents in humans, rather then by the ability to reason or learn or show emotion or display talents. It's a matter of degree.

    Do you find it impossible to believe that these pre-existing attributes could become stronger in humans by the same evolutionary pressure that developed today's dogs from primeval Cambrian fish?
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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  7. #27
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Undoubtedly, though some might think emotions run at a similar level.

    So the presence of spirit is apparent by the enhanced reasoning and learning and showing emotion and displaying of talents in humans, rather then by the ability to reason or learn or show emotion or display talents. It's a matter of degree.

    Do you find it impossible to believe that these pre-existing attributes could become stronger in humans by the same evolutionary pressure that developed today's dogs from primeval Cambrian fish?

    I think humans grow stronger and evolve in some areas yes.

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I think humans grow stronger and evolve in some areas yes.
    Could we agree then that you think some human decisions are taken by a person's spirit and other human decisions are taken by a person's brain?

    Is it apparent to an observer which part of the person makes a given decision? Is it apparent to the person involved? If either is yes then that's an avenue we could explore to find an aspect of humanity which has changed since God decided to add a spirit to each child born.

    Does every human now have one? Are there humans now to whom a spirit has been denied from the start?

    The thing is, I'm not sure I could compare one bunch of humans with spirits and another bunch without and know which group was which, and I'm not sure the humans in each group would know either.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  9. #29
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Could we agree then that you think some human decisions are taken by a person's spirit and other human decisions are taken by a person's brain?

    Is it apparent to an observer which part of the person makes a given decision? Is it apparent to the person involved? If either is yes then that's an avenue we could explore to find an aspect of humanity which has changed since God decided to add a spirit to each child born.

    Does every human now have one? Are there humans now to whom a spirit has been denied from the start?

    The thing is, I'm not sure I could compare one bunch of humans with spirits and another bunch without and know which group was which, and I'm not sure the humans in each group would know either.

    I think every human has a spirit, I think a spirit means a consciousness.

    I think primordial humans were denied a spirit.

  10. #30
    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I think every human has a spirit, I think a spirit means a consciousness.

    I think primordial humans were denied a spirit.
    So can a spirit be damaged just by a brain injury? A spirit presumably can use language but a brain injury can remove comprehension of language. We know the brain is damaged, we can watch the damage on the CAT scanner. Is the spirit incapable of using language as well? Could it use language beforehand?

    I'm exploring this concept of dual control centers performing the same function.

    Perhaps spirits can't use language?
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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