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Thread: Where is God and Christ?

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    What puzzles me is that you require this causation to be conscious and aware. I have no idea why you regard that as a necessity, still less why you think it should continue to be conscious and aware 14 billion years later. I don't remember you ever addressing that aspect, I'd welcome your opinion.

    Consciousness did not create itself, it's too powerful and well ordered. Listen, something cannot bring itself into existence, since it must exist to bring itself into existence. For the life of me I cannot understand why this is misunderstood by so many. Consciousness came from conscious great power , and that explains the existence of a God being of stunning power. I see no other way. And that's just me.

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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    Consciousness did not create itself, it's too powerful and well ordered.
    I think you will find there is a considerable literature disagreeing with that position. You make your point as a statement of fact. I would be quite happy to offer instances differing from it.
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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    I think you will find there is a considerable literature disagreeing with that position. You make your point as a statement of fact. I would be quite happy to offer instances differing from it.
    Offer them, let's have them.

    Consciousness was created by consciousness , consciousness breeds consciousness. A simple reality in my view. Things beget things and life begets life. Consciousness comes from consciousness and power comes from power. Conscious power did not come from self created rocks and I was not born from stupid rocks or from the idiotic bloodline of speechless apes.

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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    Offer them, let's have them.
    There is a balanced overview of the spectrum of opinion, from the dualism you've expressed to the eliminative materialism I've put forward, at https://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/a/a..._12_p_con.html

    My intention in bringing this into the thread is merely to demonstrate that there are long-established views on both sides. Were I being partial I'd suggest that the emergent property of consciousness is gaining ground, while the innately God-given stance is in the wane.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    There is a balanced overview of the spectrum of opinion, from the dualism you've expressed to the eliminative materialism I've put forward, at https://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/a/a..._12_p_con.html




    My intention in bringing this into the thread is merely to demonstrate that there are long-established views on both sides. Were I being partial I'd suggest that the emergent property of consciousness is gaining ground, while the innately God-given stance is in the wane.


    I think belief in God is waning. Unfortunately.

    I would like to offer Julian Jaynes book " The origin of consciousness" , an excellent read. He was an inntellect and writes like one so it's a challenging read.

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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I would like to offer Julian Jaynes book " The origin of consciousness" , an excellent read. He was an inntellect and writes like one so it's a challenging read.
    I've seen various reviews of it over the years, yes. I think my chief response to it was that it would be strange if that mode of thinking disappeared universally at around the same time. I would have expected parts of the world to have lagged behind, to the extent that some societies well into the historical period would have continued to display it, but that no such outlying groups have ever been noted.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mickiel View Post
    I think belief in God is waning. Unfortunately.

    I would like to offer Julian Jaynes book " The origin of consciousness" , an excellent read. He was an inntellect and writes like one so it's a challenging read.

    One must be conscious of where God and Jesus is , and we simply are not conscious of that. Our reasonable speculation is that they are in a place called heaven. I think they could be anywhere in places we don't even know exist. I don't think they come to earth , not now. Where they are, no sin exist. Their presence cancels it out. And we got a truck load of sin on earth.

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    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    And yet it is said that God and Christ can reside in the human heart or consciousness. I think that would be quite something for them to do that to a human. I think many humans who claim they are in them are lying or hoping that. Or are simply confused about it or deceiving themselves. To the actual ones who do have them in their hearts , I would like to meet them. And just actually see how they think and carry themselves.

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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

    There's a useful word in English, "incarnate". In Greek it was Θεὸς Ἀνθρωποϕόρος, "God incarnate" - I mistakenly first interpreted it as God the Cannibal, the Greek being literally God (Theos) Person (Anthropo) Bearing (phoros) - I mistook the last bit for Eating (phagos).

    Anyway.

    Thomas More, one-time Lord Chancellor and martyr to Henry VIII. He used the word in this sense:
    Thomas More, Treatise on the Passion, printed as Works p.1315/1 "By his goinge fro the father, was nothynge ment, but his beynge incarnate in the worlde."
    It is an adoption of flesh by a non-corporeal entity. You might also refer to the Devil Incarnate too, should that other non-corporeal entity choose to assume the privilege and liability of flesh for a time. I would not want to argue with the far better informed Thomas More. Jesus there with God becomes Jesus Incarnate in the world with no other change to his being, merely having taken on flesh for a time.

    I do not think Thomas More would have considered the idea of Jesus Christ taking up residence in the heart of a pre-existing human as anything other than metaphor, and he could quite possibly have squeezed a verdict of heresy out of it if pressed.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  10. #60
    Senior Member Mickiel's Avatar
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    Re: Where is God and Christ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    There's a useful word in English, "incarnate". In Greek it was Θεὸς Ἀνθρωποϕόρος, "God incarnate" - I mistakenly first interpreted it as God the Cannibal, the Greek being literally God (Theos) Person (Anthropo) Bearing (phoros) - I mistook the last bit for Eating (phagos).

    Anyway.

    Thomas More, one-time Lord Chancellor and martyr to Henry VIII. He used the word in this sense:
    It is an adoption of flesh by a non-corporeal entity. You can also refer to the Devil Incarnate too, should that non-corporeal entity choose to assume the privilege and liability of flesh for a time. I would not want to argue with the far better informed Thomas More. Jesus there with God becomes Jesus Incarnate in the world with no other change to his being, merely having taken on flesh for a time.

    I personally don't believe Jesus was God in the flesh, I think he was the son of a God made to exist in a freshly body. Now is Jesus a God now or was he one before, well I think he may be a God himself individually, seeing that it was him who really created all things, John 1:3. Hey only a God could do such a thing. But he and the Father God are separate beings in my view.

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