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Thread: The Ukraine phone call

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    The Ukraine phone call

    The thread books a slot to discuss the brouhaha, since we're about to be offered the "full unredacted text" of the source material tomorrow. I'll be interested to see whose bluff it calls.


    Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

    ....You will see it was a very friendly and totally appropriate call. No pressure and, unlike Joe Biden and his son, NO quid pro quo! This is nothing more than a continuation of the Greatest and most Destructive Witch Hunt of all time!
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    The only quid-pro-quo that could be is linking the denial of the aid money to the demand for an investigation into the Bidens. I don't think that's the offense per se. I think just requesting a foreign government to investigate a political opponent is the offense in and of itself.

    For Pelosi to come out publically for impeachment in the face of definite objections from Israel, The NRA, and religious organizations and lobbies make this appear to be pretty serious in my mind.
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    I'm expecting he asked for a favor, which was a Ukraine public disclosure of dirt on the Bidens. Making a deal contingent on it seems unlikely. We might know tomorrow perhaps.
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    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

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    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    I'm loathed to use Politico as a source, but it appears there will be an impeachment investigation. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ngress-1509360
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    I'm loathed to use Politico as a source, but it appears there will be an impeachment investigation. https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ngress-1509360
    An impeachment investigation is worth a damn sight more to President Trump than it is to his detractors. If you asked him to name one thing that would get donations and votes for him he'd pick an impeachment investigation. It's how he works, it's how he wins, it's how he's done it from the beginning. The enemy is attacking, will we give in or will we fight.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    Doing nothing isn't the answer either. Perhaps if the gloves come off and the Democrats forward someone who isn't afraid to mix it up with Trump. Going toe-to-toe might be the best strategy, but it can't be a weakling like Mueller, it has to be someone in the form of an AOC or Amy Klobuchar, or Tusli Gabbard. A fierce female, for sure. What's to lose?
    “Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”
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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahso! View Post
    What's to lose?
    The 2024 election. The one next year is the re-election of the incumbent on a wave of hysterical popularity and detestation depending on who you ask.

    What you cannot do is mix it up with President Trump. He won't debate anything with anyone, he won't hold a discussion with any opponent, there's no way to engage him in dialog, what he does is capture the headlines and make sure every discussion has him as the topic.
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    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: The Ukraine phone call

    So, here we go. The first bang for your buck is that what was released says "a memorandum of a telephone conversation is not a verbatim transcript of a discussion". So much for the President's offer of a "complete, fully declassified and unredacted transcript".

    Anyway.

    ZELENSKIY: I would also like to thank you for your great support in the area of defense. We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

    TRUMP: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike … I guess you have one of your wealthy people … The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation. I think you are surrounding yourself with some of the same people. I would like to have the Attorney General call you or your people and I would like you to get to the bottom of it. As you saw yesterday, that whole nonsense ended with a very poor performance by a man named Robert Mueller, an incompetent performance, but they say a lot of it started with Ukraine. Whatever you can do, it’s very important that you do it if that’s possible.

    ZELENSKIY: Yes it is very important for me and everything that you just mentioned earlier. For me as a President, it is very important and we are open for any future cooperation. We are ready to open a new page on cooperation in relations between the United States and Ukraine. For that purpose, I just recalled our ambassador from United States and he will be replaced by a very competent and very experienced ambassador who will work hard on making sure that our two nations are getting closer. I would also like and hope to see him having your trust and your confidence and have personal relations with you so we can cooperate even more so. I will personally tell you that one of my assistants spoke with Mr. Giuliani just recently and we are hoping very much that Mr. G1uliani will be able to travel to Ukraine and we will meet once he comes to Ukraine. I just wanted to assure you once again that you have nobody but friends around us. I will make sure that I surround myself with the best and most experienced people. I also wanted to tell you that we are friends. We are great friends and you Mr. President have friends in our country so we can continue our strategic partnership. I also plan to surround myself with great people and in addition to that investigation, I guarantee as the President of Ukraine that all the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.

    TRUMP: Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor of New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General. Rudy very much knows what’s happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman, was bad news and the people she was dealing with in the Ukraine were bad news so I just want to let you know that. The other thing, There’s a lot of talk about Biden’s son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it … It sounds horrible to me.

    ZELENSKIY: I wanted to tell you about the prosecutor. First of all I understand and I’m knowledgeable about the situation. Since we have won the absolute majority in our Parliament, the next prosecutor general will be 100% my person, my candidate, who will be approved, by the parliament and will start as a new prosecutor in September. He or she will look into the situation, specifically to the company that you mentioned in this issue. The issue of the investigation of the case is actually the issue of making sure to restore the honesty so we will take care of that and will work on the investigation of the case. On top of that, I would kindly ask you if you have any additional information that you can provide to us, it would be very helpful for the investigation to make sure that we administer justice in our country with regard to the Ambassador to the United States from Ukraine as far as I recall her name was Ivanovich. It was great that you were the first one who told me that she was a bad ambassador because I agree with you 100%. Her attitude towards me was far from the best as she admired the previous President and she was on his side. She would not accept me as a new President well enough.

    TRUMP: Well, she’s going to go through some things. I will have Mr. Giuliani give you a call and I am also going to have Attorney General Barr call and we will get to the bottom of it. I’m sure you will figure it out. I heard the prosecutor was treated very badly and he was a very fair prosecutor so good luck with everything. Your economy is going to get better and better I predict. You have a lot of assets. It’s a great country. I have many Ukrainian friends, their incredible people.

    https://wbng.com/news/national-news-...-conversation/ - my bolding throughout.
    What is completely unmentioned in the released conversation is that "The July call occurred days after Mr Trump directed the US government to withhold about $391m (£316m) in military aid to Ukraine". "I would like you to do us a favor though" came immediately after being "almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes" had been brought into the conversation. What one might call an incentive to follow orders.

    "Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man" is pure Godfather, it really is. It's so Godfather it's comic.

    And if that conversation isn't an order to dig dirt on the Bidens, complete with implied threat, I don't know what would qualify. "No pressure"? "No quid pro quo"? He has to be laughing while he says it.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Premium Member tude dog's Avatar
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    Impeach Away

    It is rather tiresome that there are some who'd rather ignore the will of the people and seek to trump up charges so to remove a president.

    Two presidents have been impeached and neither removed from office.

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    Senior Member AnneBoleyn's Avatar
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    Re: Impeach Away

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    Quote Originally Posted by tude dog View Post
    It is rather tiresome that there are some who'd rather ignore the will of the people and seek to trump up charges so to remove a president.

    Two presidents have been impeached and neither removed from office.
    The will of the electoral college does not trump the willful acts of high crimes and misdemeanors. No one made him do what he does, he made those choices himself.

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