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Thread: Noughts & Crosses

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Noughts & Crosses

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...itic-race-bait

    The BBC has made a huge error of judgment in broadcasting this. The makers made a huge error of judgment in producing it in the first place and the actors should have known better. I have no problem with the author having written it as a didactic tale for literate teenagers twenty years ago but that's not the same as TV at all.

    The intentions are fine, the mirroring of white colonial attitudes is fine, putting it on TV as drama has found an entirely different audience. There are a million thick-as-a-plank unemployable white tossers of both sexes in England who will cheer on the English Defence League by the time this program has finished, their attitudes will be fixed for a generation and it should never have happened. The only lesson they're taking away from the program is "we warned you, we told you so".

    This is a catastrophic misjudgment. The BBC will look back on it like it looks back on Jim'll Fix It. It is impossible to think of any way in which this will work out well.
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    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/20...itic-race-bait

    The BBC has made a huge error of judgment in broadcasting this. The makers made a huge error of judgment in producing it in the first place and the actors should have known better. I have no problem with the author having written it as a didactic tale for literate teenagers twenty years ago but that's not the same as TV at all.

    The intentions are fine, the mirroring of white colonial attitudes is fine, putting it on TV as drama has found an entirely different audience. There are a million thick-as-a-plank unemployable white tossers of both sexes in England who will cheer on the English Defence League by the time this program has finished, their attitudes will be fixed for a generation and it should never have happened. The only lesson they're taking away from the program is "we warned you, we told you so".

    This is a catastrophic misjudgment. The BBC will look back on it like it looks back on Jim'll Fix It. It is impossible to think of any way in which this will work out well.
    Totally agree

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    Senior Member Saint_'s Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Hmmm...I'd better watch this to see why everyone is so worked up... =^..^=

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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Just another "Trading Places" sort of thing.
    "Learn from the mistakes of others---you can never live long enough to make them all yourself."
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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    Just another "Trading Places" sort of thing.
    If you're talking about the 1983 comedy film then no, this is far far nastier.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

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    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    If you're talking about the 1983 comedy film then no, this is far far nastier.
    No I was not referring to any specific flick. Just the basic theme.
    "Learn from the mistakes of others---you can never live long enough to make them all yourself."
    - Anon

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    Supporting Member spot's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Quote Originally Posted by LarsMac View Post
    No I was not referring to any specific flick. Just the basic theme.
    Noughts & Crosses isn't people trading places, it's an alternative history in which Europe was colonized around 1300 from Africa, the whites were enslaved and sold into plantations in the New World and the black colonial masters run the countries of Europe - it's an exact intentional mirroring of white suptremacy just emerging from apartheid and miscegenation laws. I don't think you can boil that down to "Trading Places", least of all if you have no example to compare with.
    Nullius in verba|||||||||||
    Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game!

    The watch of your vision has become reasonable today.

    England's troubles will increase until the bishops open Joanna Southcott's box.
    It’s normal. You must provoke. You must insult the belief of all monotheists. You must make fun of the belief of all monotheists.
    From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.
    When the flowers want to oxygen and nutrition, or you’re a wedding or party planner, I will help you too much.
    Write that word in the blood

  8. #8
    Proudly humble LarsMac's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Quote Originally Posted by spot View Post
    Noughts & Crosses isn't people trading places, it's an alternative history in which Europe was colonized around 1300 from Africa, the whites were enslaved and sold into plantations in the New World and the black colonial masters run the countries of Europe - it's an exact intentional mirroring of white suptremacy just emerging from apartheid and miscegenation laws. I don't think you can boil that down to "Trading Places", least of all if you have no example to compare with.
    Heinlein once wrote something along those lines, and there are numerous alternative history stories that brush upon the concept.

    Mostly I remember from my adolescent bookworm years.
    I suppose we will have to see if this one finds its way across the Pond on BritBox.
    "Learn from the mistakes of others---you can never live long enough to make them all yourself."
    - Anon

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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

    Haven't seen this or read the book but I can't say I agree with you. Racism is a man made construct - you can look back and see how colour became used as a means to justify slavery by christian and muslim(children of ham and all that nonsense) alike and carried over in to simple racism against asians and anyone that is different. Not talking about it or challenging leaves it open for far right opinions to gain traction we're already seeing it and the sights are very soon turned on anyone who disagrees with them. the so called liberal elite that have never actually been in power but somehow get blamed for all our ills. Nothing to do with fifty years of right wing governments determined to undermine the welfare state and sell off all our assets to the highest bidder, tenn years of tory austerity and labour impotence or the public schoolboys busily running the place now hell bent on selling the last thing of value the NHS.

    If the right (fascism) gets a hold it will take generations to curb it again democracy and freedom are destroyed from within not by other nations or peoples. I suppose in a way it's to the credit of humanity they have to convince themselves someone is inferior in order to enslave and exploit them.

    The only reason europe became so dominant was an accident of geography we industrialised first and developed cannon and firearms before anyone else. For most of history europe was a backwater.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Bryn Mawr's Avatar
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    Re: Noughts & Crosses

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmc View Post
    <Snip>

    The only reason europe became so dominant was an accident of geography we industrialised first and developed cannon and firearms before anyone else. For most of history europe was a backwater.
    The other major factor was that we lived in conditions that bred several nasty diseases that we then developed a resistance to.

    When we moved to other parts of the world we killed far more by infection than with weapons.

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