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Thread: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

  1. #11
    tankspring
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    i like to read a lot of books about the second world war, great to see all those bits of info

    Nice job

    Not sure if it was ni there but a lot of canadians dont know that u-boats made it into canada through hudson bay and some were in our rivers

  2. #12
    Senior Member Lon's Avatar
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Super Post Tombstone----------Here's a little known WW 2 battle that has always intrigued me because of it's immensity. Good web page with details.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk
    The battle of Kursk was monumental for numerous reasons but will almost always be remembered for being the largest clash of armor, certainly during W.W.II and would not be rivaled until the Arab-Israeli wars of the 1960's and 1970's. The vast area around the city of Kursk presented itself as a target with a salient being formed in the Russian line of defense. Hitler needed a victory that would regain the initiative in the east and declared that Operation Zitadelle as it was known" would shine like a beacon to the world" and would avenge the crushing defeat at Stalingrad earlier in the year, but even he had misgivings about the whole affair. The brilliant armor strategist Heinz Guderian once asked Hitler "Was it really necessary to attack Kursk and indeed in the East that year at all. Do you think anyone even knows where Kursk is?" to which Hitler agreed with him saying, "I know. The thought of it turns my stomach."

  3. #13
    Little did I know... Tombstone's Avatar
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Bothwell
    Absolutely staggering Tombstone, great post. One little snippet on a slightly lighter side is the origin of the V sign. It is thought to have originated from the battle of Agincourt. When English (or most likely Welsh) archers were captured by the French their bow drawing fingers were amputated. The V sign was used by the archers prior to the battle to show that they were intact in the finger department
    Excellent! I did not know that!

  4. #14
    Little did I know... Tombstone's Avatar
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Quote Originally Posted by tankspring
    i like to read a lot of books about the second world war, great to see all those bits of info

    Nice job

    Not sure if it was ni there but a lot of canadians dont know that u-boats made it into canada through hudson bay and some were in our rivers
    I had heard that before. What I don't know is: Did the German's do any damage or were they there just for reconnaisance?

  5. #15
    Little did I know... Tombstone's Avatar
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon
    Super Post Tombstone----------Here's a little known WW 2 battle that has always intrigued me because of it's immensity. Good web page with details.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk
    The battle of Kursk was monumental for numerous reasons but will almost always be remembered for being the largest clash of armor, certainly during W.W.II and would not be rivaled until the Arab-Israeli wars of the 1960's and 1970's. The vast area around the city of Kursk presented itself as a target with a salient being formed in the Russian line of defense. Hitler needed a victory that would regain the initiative in the east and declared that Operation Zitadelle as it was known" would shine like a beacon to the world" and would avenge the crushing defeat at Stalingrad earlier in the year, but even he had misgivings about the whole affair. The brilliant armor strategist Heinz Guderian once asked Hitler "Was it really necessary to attack Kursk and indeed in the East that year at all. Do you think anyone even knows where Kursk is?" to which Hitler agreed with him saying, "I know. The thought of it turns my stomach."
    Thanks Lon - This is a great link - and indeed, the Battle of Kursk was awe inspiring.

  6. #16
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Tombstone
    Part 3
    ...
    BIGGEST DISAPPOINTMENT. By the middle of 1943 approximately 90,000 British and Allied soldiers were incarcerated in POW camps throughout Italy. When the Allies invaded the south of Italy, members of the Italian underground took this opportunity to arrest the fascist dictator, Mussolini (whom Italy's King Victor Emmanuel had dismissed on July 25, 1943) whom they found living at the Hotel Albergo-Rifugio on the Gran Sasso mountain. A new government, headed by Marshall Badoglio was formed and immediately sued for peace with the Allies. In POW camps all over Italy cries of 'finito, finito, viva Badoglio' could be heard loud and clear. Prisoners now prepared to await their imminent release. On September 12, SS Colonel Otto Skorzeny and his soldiers rescued Mussolini from his mountain retreat and by the end of the month had re-established his authority in Northern Italy. Allied authorities ordered all prisoners to 'stay put' for the time being. A few days later the POWs awoke to find German soldiers everywhere. Marched to various train stations they were soon on their way to Germany to undergo a further eighteen months, in some cases, under appalling conditions, in POW camps and in concentration camps in Germany and Poland. There can be few examples of utter disappointment on such a massive scale as that of the Allied POWs in Italy.

    ITALIAN POWs. The Italian soldiers transported to Germany after the armistice, were treated abominably and had to survive on starvation rations. Hundreds died of hunger and overwork, tuberculosis and pneumonia. Their living quarters were primitive, 250 men in barracks designed for 100. Those still loyal to the Fascist government of Mussolini were treated far better in the camps. The worst cases of TB were sent back to Italy but when the Italian mothers saw their sons, living skeletons and dying, their hatred for the Germans knew no bounds. Back in the internment camps volunteers were asked for to form an SS Division and thousands volunteered encouraged by the promise of better food and clothing. When the Italian SS Division finished its training it was sent to Italy to try and stem the Allied advance. Once in Italy, the volunteer soldiers deserted in their thousands and joined the partisans.

    Hi Tombstone, I found this thread via Google and found VERY interesting, thanks. I would also like to correct 2 things from the text above: Mussolini was not arrested by members of Italian underground, but by Italian Carabinieri (sort of Federal Police), immediately after his dismissal on the 25th of July. He was summoned by the King Vittorio Emanuele III for a meeting at 5 pm, and as Mussolini got out of the meeting he found an ambulance manned by Carabinieri who arrested him. He was then transferred to the island of Ponza, then to the island of Maddalena (close to Sardinia, there's a huge US subs base now). The 3rd of Semptember 1943 Mussolini was moved to the Campo Imperatore Hotel/shelter (room 201):




    On the 12th, with virtual no resistance from the Italian army, Skorzeny freed him, then moved him by plane to the military airport of Pratica di Mare, between Roma and the sea.

    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...20liberato.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...i%20libero.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...20liberato.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti/il_ventennio/Liberazione%20di%20Mussolini_file/Mussolini%20sale%20sull'aereo.jpg
    http://www.storiain.net/arret/num80/big/vero804.jpg

    Concerning the Italian SS Division, called Legione SS Italiana, it was formed in October 1943 by italian volunteers:

    - already enrolled in other SS divisions, such as Wallonie, Nordic, Gotz Von Berlichingen, Nordland, Lah...
    - enrolled through Italy

    Here's an example of the ads to promote it:

    http://www.thule-italia.com/dossier/...taliane2_2.jpg
    http://www.ilduce.net/foto/SS%20ITA/Propaganda.jpg
    http://www.ilduce.net/foto/SS%20ITA/Propaganda2.jpg

    A total of 6500 men. They were immediately thrown against the Allied forces, and they usually fought well:

    - one batallion lost 70% of men close to Nettuno
    - another one was in Anzio and lost 340 men over 650

    They were then used in the fights against the Italian Partizans, and in the last attempts to stop the Allies in the Pianura Padana.

  7. #17
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    re allied prisoners. My dad was one of them having been captured at Tobruk. He ended up in Poland. When i asked why they didn't escape he said there was nowhere to go they were in the middle of Italy then the germans turned up and they were stuffed. I used to wonder where he learned to speak Italian. A lot of Italian pow's settled in Scotland after the war along with large numbers of poles who couldn't go home. Amonst those who actually fought there seems to have been little animosity left.

  8. #18
    Little did I know... Tombstone's Avatar
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Quote Originally Posted by almayer
    Hi Tombstone, I found this thread via Google and found VERY interesting, thanks. I would also like to correct 2 things from the text above: Mussolini was not arrested by members of Italian underground, but by Italian Carabinieri (sort of Federal Police), immediately after his dismissal on the 25th of July. He was summoned by the King Vittorio Emanuele III for a meeting at 5 pm, and as Mussolini got out of the meeting he found an ambulance manned by Carabinieri who arrested him. He was then transferred to the island of Ponza, then to the island of Maddalena (close to Sardinia, there's a huge US subs base now). The 3rd of Semptember 1943 Mussolini was moved to the Campo Imperatore Hotel/shelter (room 201):




    On the 12th, with virtual no resistance from the Italian army, Skorzeny freed him, then moved him by plane to the military airport of Pratica di Mare, between Roma and the sea.

    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...20liberato.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...i%20libero.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti...20liberato.jpg
    http://keynes.scuole.bo.it/ipertesti/il_ventennio/Liberazione%20di%20Mussolini_file/Mussolini%20sale%20sull'aereo.jpg
    http://www.storiain.net/arret/num80/big/vero804.jpg

    Concerning the Italian SS Division, called Legione SS Italiana, it was formed in October 1943 by italian volunteers:

    - already enrolled in other SS divisions, such as Wallonie, Nordic, Gotz Von Berlichingen, Nordland, Lah...
    - enrolled through Italy

    Here's an example of the ads to promote it:

    http://www.thule-italia.com/dossier/...taliane2_2.jpg
    http://www.ilduce.net/foto/SS%20ITA/Propaganda.jpg
    http://www.ilduce.net/foto/SS%20ITA/Propaganda2.jpg

    A total of 6500 men. They were immediately thrown against the Allied forces, and they usually fought well:

    - one batallion lost 70% of men close to Nettuno
    - another one was in Anzio and lost 340 men over 650

    They were then used in the fights against the Italian Partizans, and in the last attempts to stop the Allies in the Pianura Padana.
    Excellent! Thanks for this update! Your information and documentation is a great addition to this little historical treatise.

    Once this thread ages for about a year, I'll go in and change the original post to reflect all the updates.

  9. #19
    MsSparkie
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    I found this all most interesting. Learned lots. So much evil and so much heroic. What a tale it is.

  10. #20
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    Re: Little Known Facts Regarding World War 2

    Register to remove this ad.
    Tombstone,

    Just joined the site and have read your post, first class
    info!

    Cheers
    Alan.

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