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Thread: Gurdjieff

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    Junior Member johnscot's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Quote Originally Posted by chonsigirl
    What if an individual just doesn't mesh with the other food sources, a little botulism could occur.........................

    It is the individual that counts to God, that includes all of mankind. I believe God takes an active role in an individual's life, it is not a totality experience. Every person is unique, and can not totally mesh with others into a universal buffet.

    It is one of those things that will be answered, at the end of time...............

    Ah, yes, but 'vibration' = energy, and energy is energy - there is no side-dish!

    I agree the individual is important to God, but my view is that the importance centres (UK spelling!), on the person only in relation to the Soul. I do not think that I, John, you, Chonsi, or any other personality will survive this life. 'Ashes to ashes, dust to dust', and all that! Our Souls, however, benefit from the experiences of their human forms. Saying that, perhaps some personalities survive death and are carried intact into the next, new life, the next new human 'vehicle', but only when the Soul using that vehicle has already evolved sufficiently, and then only when there is a 'higher' purpose being pursued, such as was the case with Jesus and certain others. I hope that doesn't seem too bleak, to me it's not, it's actually quite wondrous. Anyway, I'm not sure I'd particularly like to be saddled with this personality of mine for all eternity!

  2. #72
    I think, therefore I post chonsigirl's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Ah, you hint at reincarnation, an endless cycle of rebirth. I would not want to be constantly reborn into this world, once is enough for me! Because the soul would already know that an endless struggle lay ahead, and what would be the fun in fighting it all over again?

    What if the soul does not enter into another human form, or animal form, or living being form-but enters the presence of the Creator? Wouldn't that be much more amendable to the soul's happiness then endless curves of the life into the same old thing? To some another turn around the block might be fun, but it would not be enlightenment, but a boring existence like an endless TV rerun. With a canned laugh track.

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    Junior Member johnscot's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Quote Originally Posted by chonsigirl
    Ah, you hint at reincarnation, an endless cycle of rebirth. I would not want to be constantly reborn into this world, once is enough for me! Because the soul would already know that an endless struggle lay ahead, and what would be the fun in fighting it all over again?

    What if the soul does not enter into another human form, or animal form, or living being form-but enters the presence of the Creator? Wouldn't that be much more amendable to the soul's happiness then endless curves of the life into the same old thing? To some another turn around the block might be fun, but it would not be enlightenment, but a boring existence like an endless TV rerun. With a canned laugh track.

    What you're saying would be nice, but do you really think that we learn all that the Soul needs to know in '3 score years and ten'? What about the examples of regression? Of course, in many cases where hypnosis and suggestion are utilised, the responses are undoubtedly nothing more than current unconscious elements. However, what about the independently observed and verified cases where research has found that the previous life tapped into existed historically, in fact? What about the independently observed (and on at least one occasion, filmed), and verified cases where the subject has began to speak in a clear and fluent foreign language? What's that all about? (these are just two examples)

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    I think, therefore I post chonsigirl's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    You would have to cite the examples with the proof, dear johnscott. There is more then one definition for examples such as these, along religious lines. And speaking in an unknown foreign language is quite common in pentecostal churches, it is one of the Gifts of the Spirit that they believe in. It has to do with communion with God, not a regression experience.

    *this is a tangent, I know, from the original discussion*

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    Junior Member johnscot's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Re: Gurdjieff

    Quote Originally Posted by chonsigirl
    You would have to cite the examples with the proof, dear johnscott. There is more then one definition for examples such as these, along religious lines. And speaking in an unknown foreign language is quite common in pentecostal churches, it is one of the Gifts of the Spirit that they believe in. It has to do with communion with God, not a regression experience.

    *this is a tangent, I know, from the original discussion*

    You know, it's funny because it occurred to me that 'speaking in tongues' might come up. No, I'm talking about a bona fide language. When I said 'unknown', I meant unknown to the subject. In the case I saw on film, for example, the subject had no prior knowledge of how to speak in any language other than english, and came from a working class background where learning spanish was simply not an option, but then proceeded to speak in clear intelligible spanish. Observers included respected personalities in their field. Proof, of course, is always an issue with many things! With God it requires a leap of faith. With strange psychic/psychological phenomena, in some cases at least, scientific measures - using tried and tested control methods - have left more questions than answers because of the seemingly illogical, impossible and startling (from our perspective), results. I guess the thing is, as someone once said, 'there is more in heaven and earth than . . . (can't remember the rest verbatim, but you get the idea). In truth, who knows, perhaps we are with God in heaven now, and all this is merely a dream!

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    I think, therefore I post chonsigirl's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    *speaking in tongues means speaking in an unknown language to the speaker*

    Usually along Biblical lines if it is vocal in a religious setting, an "interpreter" should translate the message-all of these languages unknown to them.


    If life is a dream, then one day we will wake up-and it will all be over! We will know the ultimate result.

    If life is a dream, then I don't like my nightmare right now I'm living in. I want to roll over and get a good nights sleep! (literally! You will tell which posts are on days of little sleep, but such is the life I lead)

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9117

    But I don't believe that I'm in heaven now, or I would not have to suffer the things I do now. (take no offense any Catholics out there, but if I was one, I would believe I live in purgatory now, because of the problems-but I am a Protestant, and do not believe this) So I continue along the journey of life. I think because I have taken the leap of faith, it makes the journey easier to know the outcome. These are trials of life I endure, for whatever reason, so I will end my complaining and be glad it is the weekend ahead!

  7. #77
    Junior Member johnscot's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Quote Originally Posted by chonsigirl
    *speaking in tongues means speaking in an unknown language to the speaker*

    Usually along Biblical lines if it is vocal in a religious setting, an "interpreter" should translate the message-all of these languages unknown to them.


    If life is a dream, then one day we will wake up-and it will all be over! We will know the ultimate result.

    If life is a dream, then I don't like my nightmare right now I'm living in. I want to roll over and get a good nights sleep! (literally! You will tell which posts are on days of little sleep, but such is the life I lead)

    http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9117

    But I don't believe that I'm in heaven now, or I would not have to suffer the things I do now. (take no offense any Catholics out there, but if I was one, I would believe I live in purgatory now, because of the problems-but I am a Protestant, and do not believe this) So I continue along the journey of life. I think because I have taken the leap of faith, it makes the journey easier to know the outcome. These are trials of life I endure, for whatever reason, so I will end my complaining and be glad it is the weekend ahead!
    But is there any more proof that the interpreter really can understand the tongues, than with the case of scientific observers?

    Personally, I don't consider myself to be of any denomination (both branches were created solely by imperfect man!). I simply consider myself Christian, having been born into this religion, but I also acknowledge the divine Truths to be found in all the major religions (having explored them). And yes, I have often thought that this is perhaps purgatory, perhaps even Hell! The state of the planet and humanity's place and role in that certainly leaves me wondering about how deserving our species is.

    Anyway Chonsi, it has been, as always, an enjoyable and interesting chat, but it's that time again here and I must say goodnight. I'm going to set up Paypal on Monday so I can subscribe to this site's 'inner sanctum' and see what goes on there. I hope you have a good day and that joy pays you a visit at least once before your day ends. Hope to speak again soon. Take care.
    Night night.

  8. #78
    I think, therefore I post chonsigirl's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Good night johnscott, may the dreams you have be sweet, and never disappear with the waking of the morning light.


  9. #79
    Senior Member alobar51's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

    Quote Originally Posted by ArnoldLayne View Post
    Er! ...care to elucidate ? We'd like to join in if possible. The idea of a discussion is for 2 or more people to converse. We can hardly be expected to make a contribution if we dont know what you're talking about
    The Gurdjieff Teaching
    George Ivanovitch Gurdjieff (1866?-1949) was born in Russian Armenia. He spent years searching in Central Asia, North Africa, and other places for a hidden tradition whose traces he had encountered in youth. During this search he came into contact with certain esoteric schools. In the early 1900's he brought to Europe a teaching that he had developed from the results of this contact.
    Gurdjieff's basic teaching is that human life is lived in waking sleep; transcendence of the sleeping state requires a specific inner work, which is practiced in private quiet conditions, and in the midst of life with others. This leads to otherwise inaccessible levels of vitality and awareness.

    Though Gurdjieff's name has become familiar in recent years, the real nature of his work is still little known. The Way of Gurdjieff is an oral tradition. The understanding of his work can only be received by direct contact between teacher and pupil, and by the work of pupils together in organised groups. Under conditions of a special atmosphere of trust that can exist in such a group, people working together learn to face their own inner poverty and confusion. Working in this way, conscience is awakened along with consciousness. Consciousness, Conscience, and Sensation form the tripod upon which an integrated development of human potential must be based.

    Gurdjieff prepared a nucleus of people to be able to transmit his teaching after his death. This nucleus with the assistance of others who have subsequently been prepared maintains a series of centers throughout the world where Gurdjieff's methods are practiced.


    For an introduction to the teaching of Gurdjieff, see G. I. Gurdjieff and His School, by Jacob Needleman.

    For further study, there are several valuable Books by Gurdjieff and his key pupils.

    Another article: Gurdjieff In America, by G. Baker and W. Driscoll.




    His most ambitious book is Beelzebub's Stories to his Grandson. It's about 900 pages. I once read the first fifty, or so at Borders, and felt like he had said nothing in that time. He seems to enjoy the sound of his own voice.

    Having said that, the basic premise does have some validity, and the exercises could work.

    He apparently cut a fairly charismatic and dashing figure, and had no trouble seducing a fair number of women out of their husband's money. Frank Lloyd Wright's third wife was an ardent disciple of Gurdjieff's.

    There are still many groups devoted to the study of his work.

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    Junior Member johnscot's Avatar
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    Re: Gurdjieff

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    johnscot here. a lot has happened over the last couple of years. Perhaps now, before choice becomes a forgotten word, it's time to really reflect on the ignorance of what we thought we are, and consider what we should be! We are all one!
    I am real, only then, when I am!

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