fuzzy butt;960725 wrote: Hey we could take this down a different path and make it a political discussion. In some parts of the world only girls are aborted or killed after birth. There is the opinion of some analysts that muslims are breeding it up in some countries in the belief they will concur the world..............kinda like the catholics did. I sincerely wouldn't hold this to be purely catholic...In fact far from it...There are the Moors and the Jihad that come to mind more vigorously...I'd recently seen a documentary on Charlemagne from which I thought brings up a very interesting topic...How Charlemagne could be that ruthlessly barbaric yet to actually be acceptingly effective at bringing the dark ages out of the depths of despair...Another topic...
fuzzy butt;960725 wrote:
In some ares of the world making abortion punishable by death. then we have the belief that the world is over populated, and governments get on board to push the abortion freedoms and sway the opinion of the populace to keep their particular countries sustainable and economically rich.
the abortion issue is bigger than BEn Hur..........................how ever people forget the individual woman at the centre of it all
Just a thought
I wouldn't so much consider the world to be overpopulated rather overpopulated within it's certain region...I wouldn't expect for a minute someone growing up in one country to be able to move to another country without learning the native language and commencing work to meet their prosperity...I'd expect it idealistically,..but not realistically...
Those rich I consider to be over 90% of the problem...Another topic...
I wouldn't for a minute blame only a woman for abortion...Not for one second...
Abortion poll - part 3
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;960732 wrote: Which is why abortion has always been and always will be a necessary evil. Sex is human nature and probably the biggest drive other than hate and jealousy. It's completely unreasonable and idealistic (unrealistic) to expect people to refrain from it even if they can't provide for the possible result.
There is birth control and condoms...
I'd understand this view over a 100 years ago...
Not today...
It's simply a woman and a man weighing the risk of fulfilling their desire to have sex with making another human being suffer...More often than not it's the child in question...
There is birth control and condoms...
I'd understand this view over a 100 years ago...
Not today...
It's simply a woman and a man weighing the risk of fulfilling their desire to have sex with making another human being suffer...More often than not it's the child in question...
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;960735 wrote: Exactly, which is why parents need to impress on their daughters that every time - every time - they have sex they are gambling against Nature on pregnancy. The stakes are too high for just fun. It's too easy for the boy to deny and run, and too difficult to prove what he did and hold him accountable. What's anybody going to do to him?
This is the exact attitude that needs to go out the window. This goes right back to "he respects you till he comes" which is what damn near every girl, this one included, has had to grow up with to some degree and then figure out a way to trust men when it comes that time. Enough of this double standard racket! It sucks! How come we are having this talk about pregnancy instead of IMPREGNATION? How come we always let the guy off? Do ya think maybe parents, ya know, like FATHERS, could impress upon their sons a little?!
fuzzy butt;960736 wrote: Or we could turn this thread completely around and make it about Men having sex with anything in a skirt .........................................lets make it about men who think they can get away with anything . forget the solution to abortion unless you're willing to go back and make it about a solution of respect towards women by men. The attitude of men in respects to children and babies and women ...................fix that and we won't have to be having this discussion at all.
Mark your calendars. FB and I agree on something. :-6
Accountable;960742 wrote: Can't agree with ya, gorgeous. This kind of behavior requires a decision. There are literally dozens of decision points between that spark in the eye and intercourse, any one of which can be a place to stop the process. Billions of people have done it. It's not unrealistic because it's been done again and again.
It's also failed probably more times than it's been successful. I'm not saying it's a great way of thinking, I'm saying it speaks for human weakness, it's there, and we have to accept that humans are going to screw up sometimes- a lot of times. Instead of worrying about their behavior after the fact, as what's done is done, we should be thinking about the wellbeing of the resultant kids.
JAB;960755 wrote: What about those cases when the father of the child doesn't agree with the mother's decision to have an abortion? Are his wishes to be ignored as well?
Depends on who's doing the conception, carrying and delivery. Possession is 9/10ths. Well, that's just my opinion, which has proven in past talks to be unpopular around here. Lots will disagree, but if you were asking me, that's what I'd say. And I think it's only fair. As long as we perpetuate double standards and p.iss-poor behavior from men and as long as the blame, the Madonna factor and the work lays at the feet of women, it should be the woman's domain according to this woman. Fair is fair.
K.Snyder;960774 wrote: There is birth control and condoms...
I'd understand this view over a 100 years ago...
Not today...
It's simply a woman and a man weighing the risk of fulfilling their desire to have sex with making another human being suffer...More often than not it's the child in question...
Of course there's contraception. If they bother. And if it works. But what about when they don't or it doesn't? Do we really just expect them to say no? Could it be more realistic to accept that there will always be some people who will mess up?
This is the exact attitude that needs to go out the window. This goes right back to "he respects you till he comes" which is what damn near every girl, this one included, has had to grow up with to some degree and then figure out a way to trust men when it comes that time. Enough of this double standard racket! It sucks! How come we are having this talk about pregnancy instead of IMPREGNATION? How come we always let the guy off? Do ya think maybe parents, ya know, like FATHERS, could impress upon their sons a little?!
fuzzy butt;960736 wrote: Or we could turn this thread completely around and make it about Men having sex with anything in a skirt .........................................lets make it about men who think they can get away with anything . forget the solution to abortion unless you're willing to go back and make it about a solution of respect towards women by men. The attitude of men in respects to children and babies and women ...................fix that and we won't have to be having this discussion at all.
Mark your calendars. FB and I agree on something. :-6
Accountable;960742 wrote: Can't agree with ya, gorgeous. This kind of behavior requires a decision. There are literally dozens of decision points between that spark in the eye and intercourse, any one of which can be a place to stop the process. Billions of people have done it. It's not unrealistic because it's been done again and again.
It's also failed probably more times than it's been successful. I'm not saying it's a great way of thinking, I'm saying it speaks for human weakness, it's there, and we have to accept that humans are going to screw up sometimes- a lot of times. Instead of worrying about their behavior after the fact, as what's done is done, we should be thinking about the wellbeing of the resultant kids.
JAB;960755 wrote: What about those cases when the father of the child doesn't agree with the mother's decision to have an abortion? Are his wishes to be ignored as well?
Depends on who's doing the conception, carrying and delivery. Possession is 9/10ths. Well, that's just my opinion, which has proven in past talks to be unpopular around here. Lots will disagree, but if you were asking me, that's what I'd say. And I think it's only fair. As long as we perpetuate double standards and p.iss-poor behavior from men and as long as the blame, the Madonna factor and the work lays at the feet of women, it should be the woman's domain according to this woman. Fair is fair.
K.Snyder;960774 wrote: There is birth control and condoms...
I'd understand this view over a 100 years ago...
Not today...
It's simply a woman and a man weighing the risk of fulfilling their desire to have sex with making another human being suffer...More often than not it's the child in question...
Of course there's contraception. If they bother. And if it works. But what about when they don't or it doesn't? Do we really just expect them to say no? Could it be more realistic to accept that there will always be some people who will mess up?
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;960785 wrote:
Of course there's contraception. If they bother. And if it works. But what about when they don't or it doesn't? Do we really just expect them to say no? Could it be more realistic to accept that ther will always be some people who will mess up?
Yes...We have to...We accept that people mess up because we have to...The problem lies in changing those to whom mess up...Messing up in my mind is knowing full well the circumstances one could hypothetically bring a child into this world yet go through with it anyway and far worse never thinking about it to begin with...
People mess up...The problem is is that some who mess up take care of their damn kids while others could care less...Could care less about their own damn children...
Of course there's contraception. If they bother. And if it works. But what about when they don't or it doesn't? Do we really just expect them to say no? Could it be more realistic to accept that ther will always be some people who will mess up?
Yes...We have to...We accept that people mess up because we have to...The problem lies in changing those to whom mess up...Messing up in my mind is knowing full well the circumstances one could hypothetically bring a child into this world yet go through with it anyway and far worse never thinking about it to begin with...
People mess up...The problem is is that some who mess up take care of their damn kids while others could care less...Could care less about their own damn children...
Abortion poll - part 3
southern yankee;957122 wrote: When they (men) can put their selves in a woman's shoes. then i may value their opinion.:rolleyes:
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Abortion poll - part 3
suzy_creamcheese;960425 wrote: im totally pro-choice.
If someone doesnt want a baby and contraception fails, then i see less harm in stopping the pregnancy early on, than carrying on with it when its not wanted.
I dont see it as immoral.
I dont feel comfortable with the idea later in pregnancy though.
Kinda like.......
The only ones that espouse their support for abortion, have NEVER been aborted?
If someone doesnt want a baby and contraception fails, then i see less harm in stopping the pregnancy early on, than carrying on with it when its not wanted.
I dont see it as immoral.
I dont feel comfortable with the idea later in pregnancy though.
Kinda like.......
The only ones that espouse their support for abortion, have NEVER been aborted?
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;960788 wrote: Yes...We have to...We accept that people mess up because we have to...The problem lies in changing those to whom mess up...Messing up in my mind is knowing full well the circumstances one could hypothetically bring a child into this world yet go through with it anyway and far worse never thinking about it to begin with...
People mess up...The problem is is that some who mess up take care of their damn kids while others could care less...Could care less about their own damn children...
I understand where you are coming from there. When i was in hospital after having lost my son, i had went to the smoking room when a woman came in and started to moan about her new baby, bloody things always crying, didnt even want a baby and now im stuck with that etc.etc. i walked out of the room but how i stopped myself from going over and slapping her i'll never know,, probably as i had a c section and could barely walk anyway:rolleyes:
I think i am pro choice, but i also was in a position where i would have been given the choice. While waiting for results from an amnio centesis test, i realised that whatever the results i just wouldnt be able to have my baby terminated. I talked about it with my husband and i think he was quite scared to cope if there were problems with the baby, and after a long talk i knew i would still never chnage my mind even if it meant the end of my marriage. Red Glitter said something earlier about wanting a child being selfish(sorry i know thats not the exact words) but i have to agree it IS selfish and once you have that child you become selfish for them, even from the pont of conception. Luckily my baby was healthy and i didnt need to make the choice, but i know if i had aborted i would never have felt justified in trying for another baby. but in that instance i could understand someone else making a different decision, it just wasnt for me.
People mess up...The problem is is that some who mess up take care of their damn kids while others could care less...Could care less about their own damn children...
I understand where you are coming from there. When i was in hospital after having lost my son, i had went to the smoking room when a woman came in and started to moan about her new baby, bloody things always crying, didnt even want a baby and now im stuck with that etc.etc. i walked out of the room but how i stopped myself from going over and slapping her i'll never know,, probably as i had a c section and could barely walk anyway:rolleyes:
I think i am pro choice, but i also was in a position where i would have been given the choice. While waiting for results from an amnio centesis test, i realised that whatever the results i just wouldnt be able to have my baby terminated. I talked about it with my husband and i think he was quite scared to cope if there were problems with the baby, and after a long talk i knew i would still never chnage my mind even if it meant the end of my marriage. Red Glitter said something earlier about wanting a child being selfish(sorry i know thats not the exact words) but i have to agree it IS selfish and once you have that child you become selfish for them, even from the pont of conception. Luckily my baby was healthy and i didnt need to make the choice, but i know if i had aborted i would never have felt justified in trying for another baby. but in that instance i could understand someone else making a different decision, it just wasnt for me.
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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Accountable
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Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;960785 wrote: This is the exact attitude that needs to go out the window. This goes right back to "he respects you till he comes" which is what damn near every girl, this one included, has had to grow up with to some degree and then figure out a way to trust men when it comes that time. Enough of this double standard racket! It sucks! How come we are having this talk about pregnancy instead of IMPREGNATION? How come we always let the guy off? Do ya think maybe parents, ya know, like FATHERS, could impress upon their sons a little?!I absolutely 100% agree with your last sentence. If I could wave a magic wand and make guys feel what their pregnant partner feels throughout the pregnancy, I would (wouldn't THAT be a bonding experience!). The facts of nature are that if both are responsible, they create a family; if both are irresponsible (I include uncommitted sex in that definition, regardless of contraception) then the WOMAN is the one who can't avoid the consequences.
Nature made that double standard.
Nature made that double standard.
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Accountable
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- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;960785 wrote: It's also failed probably more times than it's been successful.Stopping before intercourse is always 100% successful in preventing pregancy. It also works against many sexually transmitted diseasses. :yh_glasseRedGlitter wrote: I'm not saying it's a great way of thinking, I'm saying it speaks for human weakness, it's there, and we have to accept that humans are going to screw up sometimes- a lot of times. Instead of worrying about their behavior after the fact, as what's done is done, we should be thinking about the wellbeing of the resultant kids.I would argue that euthenizing the resultant kids when they're not suffering is not thinking of their wellbeing.
I'd successfully stayed out of this for quite awhile. I'll try again.
I'd successfully stayed out of this for quite awhile. I'll try again.
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suzy_creamcheese
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Abortion poll - part 3
BTS;960876 wrote: Kinda like.......
The only ones that espouse their support for abortion, have NEVER been aborted?
no **** sherlock!
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
The only ones that espouse their support for abortion, have NEVER been aborted?
no **** sherlock!
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;959806 wrote: :yh_clap:yh_clap:yh_clap:yh_clap
Very well said!!
thank you:) sorry i forgot to answer earlier:o
Very well said!!
thank you:) sorry i forgot to answer earlier:o
FOC THREAD PART1
In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;960932 wrote: I absolutely 100% agree with your last sentence. If I could wave a magic wand and make guys feel what their pregnant partner feels throughout the pregnancy, I would (wouldn't THAT be a bonding experience!). The facts of nature are that if both are responsible, they create a family; if both are irresponsible (I include uncommitted sex in that definition, regardless of contraception) then the WOMAN is the one who can't avoid the consequences.
Nature made that double standard.
But it's men and even women who uphold it. It needs to stop or men will never take responsibility.
Accountable;960939 wrote: Stopping before intercourse is always 100% successful in preventing pregancy. It also works against many sexually transmitted diseasses. :yh_glasseI would argue that euthenizing the resultant kids when they're not suffering is not thinking of their wellbeing.
I'd successfully stayed out of this for quite awhile. I'll try again.
I probably wasn't being clear again. I know stopping beforehand is 100% successful. What I meant by failing more often than not, was that more often that not, the people involved won't have the fortitude to stop before it's too late. As for the upcoming kids, I mean let's stop wasting effort berating the parents and concentrate on these kids. I would rather my taxes go to raising them than to have them aborted any day. It's not right or fair that it should be that way, but once they're here, they're here and someone has to take care of them even if that falls on society. I guess in short, my feeling about that part is that it just comes out in the wash. If we weren't paying for someone else's kid, we'd be paying for NASA's five hundred dollar socket wrenches and the Pentagon's overpriced toilet seats like we do already so we may as just well take on the burden of other people's children. I can see abortion as an individual's personal choice for any reason at all but I am unable to justify it as a means of population control or for the alleged betterment of society. I don't know if I can explain that or if I even need to, that's just how I feel about it.
(As I read over this thread, I am hearing "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" in my head. :wah: How weird is that?
suzy_creamcheese;960947 wrote: no **** sherlock!
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
:wah: +1
Nature made that double standard.
But it's men and even women who uphold it. It needs to stop or men will never take responsibility.
Accountable;960939 wrote: Stopping before intercourse is always 100% successful in preventing pregancy. It also works against many sexually transmitted diseasses. :yh_glasseI would argue that euthenizing the resultant kids when they're not suffering is not thinking of their wellbeing.
I'd successfully stayed out of this for quite awhile. I'll try again.
I probably wasn't being clear again. I know stopping beforehand is 100% successful. What I meant by failing more often than not, was that more often that not, the people involved won't have the fortitude to stop before it's too late. As for the upcoming kids, I mean let's stop wasting effort berating the parents and concentrate on these kids. I would rather my taxes go to raising them than to have them aborted any day. It's not right or fair that it should be that way, but once they're here, they're here and someone has to take care of them even if that falls on society. I guess in short, my feeling about that part is that it just comes out in the wash. If we weren't paying for someone else's kid, we'd be paying for NASA's five hundred dollar socket wrenches and the Pentagon's overpriced toilet seats like we do already so we may as just well take on the burden of other people's children. I can see abortion as an individual's personal choice for any reason at all but I am unable to justify it as a means of population control or for the alleged betterment of society. I don't know if I can explain that or if I even need to, that's just how I feel about it.
(As I read over this thread, I am hearing "Paradise by the Dashboard Light" in my head. :wah: How weird is that?
suzy_creamcheese;960947 wrote: no **** sherlock!
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
:wah: +1
Abortion poll - part 3
suzy_creamcheese;960947 wrote: no **** sherlock!
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
I think he's thought about and has come to the conclusion that he doesn't have one...
The only ones against it have never been aborted either!!
your point?
I think he's thought about and has come to the conclusion that he doesn't have one...
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;960993 wrote: As for the upcoming kids, I mean let's stop wasting effort berating the parents and concentrate on these kids. I would rather my taxes go to raising them than to have them aborted any day.
Do you have the same view for citizens of the People's Republic of China?...
What about in Malawi where living conditions are vile not to mention completely horrific abortion practices being conducted VIA back-door medical concerns?...
In his speech at the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD) in 1994 the former Vic President of Malawi, Honorable Justine Malewezi said despite the criminalization of abortion in Malawi, nearly 35% of all maternal deaths are due to induced abortions, translating into an increasing rate of clandestine and back-door abortions. He added that unsafe abortions account for 60% of all acute gynecological admissions and is responsible for 30% of maternal deaths.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200712310665.html
Do you have the same view for citizens of the People's Republic of China?...
What about in Malawi where living conditions are vile not to mention completely horrific abortion practices being conducted VIA back-door medical concerns?...
In his speech at the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD) in 1994 the former Vic President of Malawi, Honorable Justine Malewezi said despite the criminalization of abortion in Malawi, nearly 35% of all maternal deaths are due to induced abortions, translating into an increasing rate of clandestine and back-door abortions. He added that unsafe abortions account for 60% of all acute gynecological admissions and is responsible for 30% of maternal deaths.
http://allafrica.com/stories/200712310665.html
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;961438 wrote: Do you have the same view for citizens of the People's Republic of China?...
What about in Malawi where living conditions are vile not to mention completely horrific abortion practices being conducted VIA back-door medical concerns?...
http://allafrica.com/stories/200712310665.html
K, what are you asking me? First off, China does things *wrong.* I may be a pig for saying that but until they clean up their sordid act, that's the way it is.
Are you asking me if I'd rather see kids aborted than brought up in sh*t-poor conditions? Possibly. I'm not willing to say a profound yes to all because there may be exceptions. I guess I feel that aborting kids who would have been born to those situations is not an answer. Changing those situations is. In the meantime should we just kill humans because it's more convenient? Who is anyone really, other than the mom/parents to say this is what should be done? I mean, China (and SuperPowerChina will probably stone me for saying this) still secretly kills baby girls because boys are worth more. That's fkd up. I don't know that much about Malawi so I'll leave that alone. But abortion in my eyes, is not the answer to the world's problems. Especially when peoples do not have to be impoverished but could be helped by nations better off if people would be willing to share their damn stuff! Am I foolish and idealistic to believe there really is enough food for everyone and that it's just misdistributed?? Other things require social change. (Like China's attitudes)
I'm not sure why you pointed out the sorry state of abortion in Malawi? I missed something. Any time you have abortion that is illegal or at least a crime in the eyes of society, women run the risk of dying. See America even into the 1940s-50s. Kitchen table abortions where women would be scraped out in the cloak of night and end up hemmoraghing on their kitchen table because it was done by some shoddy "doctor" who didn't want to get caught and/or had hatred for women who would terminate their child. This is why abortion should never be illegal!! It should not be a life or death risk punishment for women! It should be made safe and accessible for anyone who requires it. Society's sanction be damned.
*coff*
perhaps I got off track. Excuse me.
What about in Malawi where living conditions are vile not to mention completely horrific abortion practices being conducted VIA back-door medical concerns?...
http://allafrica.com/stories/200712310665.html
K, what are you asking me? First off, China does things *wrong.* I may be a pig for saying that but until they clean up their sordid act, that's the way it is.
Are you asking me if I'd rather see kids aborted than brought up in sh*t-poor conditions? Possibly. I'm not willing to say a profound yes to all because there may be exceptions. I guess I feel that aborting kids who would have been born to those situations is not an answer. Changing those situations is. In the meantime should we just kill humans because it's more convenient? Who is anyone really, other than the mom/parents to say this is what should be done? I mean, China (and SuperPowerChina will probably stone me for saying this) still secretly kills baby girls because boys are worth more. That's fkd up. I don't know that much about Malawi so I'll leave that alone. But abortion in my eyes, is not the answer to the world's problems. Especially when peoples do not have to be impoverished but could be helped by nations better off if people would be willing to share their damn stuff! Am I foolish and idealistic to believe there really is enough food for everyone and that it's just misdistributed?? Other things require social change. (Like China's attitudes)
I'm not sure why you pointed out the sorry state of abortion in Malawi? I missed something. Any time you have abortion that is illegal or at least a crime in the eyes of society, women run the risk of dying. See America even into the 1940s-50s. Kitchen table abortions where women would be scraped out in the cloak of night and end up hemmoraghing on their kitchen table because it was done by some shoddy "doctor" who didn't want to get caught and/or had hatred for women who would terminate their child. This is why abortion should never be illegal!! It should not be a life or death risk punishment for women! It should be made safe and accessible for anyone who requires it. Society's sanction be damned.
*coff*
perhaps I got off track. Excuse me.
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;961458 wrote: K, what are you asking me? First off, China does things *wrong.* I may be a pig for saying that but until they clean up their sordid act, that's the way it is.
Are you asking me if I'd rather see kids aborted than brought up in sh*t-poor conditions? Yes...It's been my basis for logic during this entire thread...But what's important is differentiating the axis of "evil" pertaining to abortion...One getting pregnant(Both sexes involved) knowing full well they cannot provide a healthy lifestyle for that child is immoral in my opinion...Which meas wholeheartedly that the act preceding the hypothetical pregnancy was the spawn point of immoral choice...The abortion acts as the signature...
No different in instances of fulfilling pleasure and having an abortion as the result knowing full well they hadn't wanted the child...
My reason for bringing up China and Malwawi leads to this
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Possibly. I'm not willing to say a profound yes to all because there may be exceptions. I guess I feel that aborting kids who would have been born to those situations is not an answer. Those exceptions stresses pro-choice...From which I wholeheartedly agree with in instances of having to accept the "necassary evils" you speak of...I wouldn't for a minute personally contemplate having sex knowing I wouldn't want a child...You're "necassary evil" is my unnecassary evil...I do not sympathize with immoral deeds...I wouldn't expect anything less than someone willing to raise their damn children after having created him/her...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Changing those situations is. I couldn't agree more...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
In the meantime should we just kill humans because it's more convenient? Who is anyone really, other than the mom/parents to say this is what should be done? I mean, China (and SuperPowerChina will probably stone me for saying this) still secretly kills baby girls because boys are worth more. That's fkd up. Aborting pregnancies falls on the hands of those involved...I wouldn't for a minute feel responsible for others' actions...What I consider to be my morale logic is my only reference point...That reference point being my strong belief in not creating instances that lead to death. Primarily in this case...I have other morale logics...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
I don't know that much about Malawi so I'll leave that alone. My bringing up the fact that despite the criminalization of abortion in Malawi, nearly 35% of all maternal deaths are due to induced abortions, translating into an increasing rate of clandestine and back-door abortions. He added that unsafe abortions account for 60% of all acute gynecological admissions and is responsible for 30% of maternal deaths. your necessary evils happen, therefore it's only logical to have to conform to the deeds of others regardless of whether or not you feel it's morale...Which emphasizes my opinion that abortion should remain pro-choice...Resting sole responsibility on those involved...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
But abortion in my eyes, is not the answer to the world's problems. Especially when peoples do not have to be impoverished but could be helped by nations better off if people would be willing to share their damn stuff! Am I foolish and idealistic to believe there really is enough food for everyone and that it's just misdistributed?? Other things require social change. (Like China's attitudes) I completely agree, but I don't feel such can happen so long as peoples' morale virtues go unchanged...That's to say the increment increases upon convenience...
The population increase would produce more of the same circumstances by default...The subsidiarity only being prevalent within the first what I would speculate to be around 10 years following such a piece of legislation...And it'd take a piece of legislation to get people to share...It's sad but it's the entire focal point of the discussion...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
I'm not sure why you pointed out the sorry state of abortion in Malawi? I missed something. I brought it up for the sake of the thread...I thought the article is completely relevant to the discussion...You'd answered your own question with the following...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Any time you have abortion that is illegal or at least a crime in the eyes of society, women run the risk of dying. See America even into the 1940s-50s. Kitchen table abortions where women would be scraped out in the cloak of night and end up hemmoraghing on their kitchen table because it was done by some shoddy "doctor" who didn't want to get caught and/or had hatred for women who would terminate their child. This is why abortion should never be illegal!! It should not be a life or death risk punishment for women! It should be made safe and accessible for anyone who requires it. Society's sanction be damned.
*coff*
perhaps I got off track. Excuse me. The article emphasizes everything you've said...
And I couldn't agree more with that from which you've said in the previous quote...
Are you asking me if I'd rather see kids aborted than brought up in sh*t-poor conditions? Yes...It's been my basis for logic during this entire thread...But what's important is differentiating the axis of "evil" pertaining to abortion...One getting pregnant(Both sexes involved) knowing full well they cannot provide a healthy lifestyle for that child is immoral in my opinion...Which meas wholeheartedly that the act preceding the hypothetical pregnancy was the spawn point of immoral choice...The abortion acts as the signature...
No different in instances of fulfilling pleasure and having an abortion as the result knowing full well they hadn't wanted the child...
My reason for bringing up China and Malwawi leads to this
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Possibly. I'm not willing to say a profound yes to all because there may be exceptions. I guess I feel that aborting kids who would have been born to those situations is not an answer. Those exceptions stresses pro-choice...From which I wholeheartedly agree with in instances of having to accept the "necassary evils" you speak of...I wouldn't for a minute personally contemplate having sex knowing I wouldn't want a child...You're "necassary evil" is my unnecassary evil...I do not sympathize with immoral deeds...I wouldn't expect anything less than someone willing to raise their damn children after having created him/her...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Changing those situations is. I couldn't agree more...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
In the meantime should we just kill humans because it's more convenient? Who is anyone really, other than the mom/parents to say this is what should be done? I mean, China (and SuperPowerChina will probably stone me for saying this) still secretly kills baby girls because boys are worth more. That's fkd up. Aborting pregnancies falls on the hands of those involved...I wouldn't for a minute feel responsible for others' actions...What I consider to be my morale logic is my only reference point...That reference point being my strong belief in not creating instances that lead to death. Primarily in this case...I have other morale logics...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
I don't know that much about Malawi so I'll leave that alone. My bringing up the fact that despite the criminalization of abortion in Malawi, nearly 35% of all maternal deaths are due to induced abortions, translating into an increasing rate of clandestine and back-door abortions. He added that unsafe abortions account for 60% of all acute gynecological admissions and is responsible for 30% of maternal deaths. your necessary evils happen, therefore it's only logical to have to conform to the deeds of others regardless of whether or not you feel it's morale...Which emphasizes my opinion that abortion should remain pro-choice...Resting sole responsibility on those involved...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
But abortion in my eyes, is not the answer to the world's problems. Especially when peoples do not have to be impoverished but could be helped by nations better off if people would be willing to share their damn stuff! Am I foolish and idealistic to believe there really is enough food for everyone and that it's just misdistributed?? Other things require social change. (Like China's attitudes) I completely agree, but I don't feel such can happen so long as peoples' morale virtues go unchanged...That's to say the increment increases upon convenience...
The population increase would produce more of the same circumstances by default...The subsidiarity only being prevalent within the first what I would speculate to be around 10 years following such a piece of legislation...And it'd take a piece of legislation to get people to share...It's sad but it's the entire focal point of the discussion...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
I'm not sure why you pointed out the sorry state of abortion in Malawi? I missed something. I brought it up for the sake of the thread...I thought the article is completely relevant to the discussion...You'd answered your own question with the following...
RedGlitter;961458 wrote:
Any time you have abortion that is illegal or at least a crime in the eyes of society, women run the risk of dying. See America even into the 1940s-50s. Kitchen table abortions where women would be scraped out in the cloak of night and end up hemmoraghing on their kitchen table because it was done by some shoddy "doctor" who didn't want to get caught and/or had hatred for women who would terminate their child. This is why abortion should never be illegal!! It should not be a life or death risk punishment for women! It should be made safe and accessible for anyone who requires it. Society's sanction be damned.
*coff*
perhaps I got off track. Excuse me. The article emphasizes everything you've said...
And I couldn't agree more with that from which you've said in the previous quote...
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
JAB;961579 wrote: Fair? It's his child too. She didn't get pregnant on her own, remember?
I've been waiting for you JAB.
That's true. But he isn't carrying it. He's not going to have to deliver it. And ultimately except in some instances, it will be the woman who will be saddled with raising it into a decent human being. As long as she does most of the work and the responsibility of even getting pregnant rests with her as demonstrated by attitudes in in this thread, it's not a fair situation. Until men can conceive and deliver, pregnancy is still the woman's domain. Like Nature's double standard as Acc puts it, it may not be fair but that's how Nature made it. I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how I see it.
I've been waiting for you JAB.
That's true. But he isn't carrying it. He's not going to have to deliver it. And ultimately except in some instances, it will be the woman who will be saddled with raising it into a decent human being. As long as she does most of the work and the responsibility of even getting pregnant rests with her as demonstrated by attitudes in in this thread, it's not a fair situation. Until men can conceive and deliver, pregnancy is still the woman's domain. Like Nature's double standard as Acc puts it, it may not be fair but that's how Nature made it. I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how I see it.-
suzy_creamcheese
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Abortion poll - part 3
there is no halfway house. Its either a woman making her own decision about it or a man making the decision for her.
What if the man wanted an abortion but the woman didnt. Would you be so keen to push for his rights to an equal say if it meant more abortions happened?
Plenty of women are pushed into abortions that they dont actually want and that is a terrible thing. Being pro choice means that that wouldnt happen either
What if the man wanted an abortion but the woman didnt. Would you be so keen to push for his rights to an equal say if it meant more abortions happened?
Plenty of women are pushed into abortions that they dont actually want and that is a terrible thing. Being pro choice means that that wouldnt happen either
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Accountable
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Abortion poll - part 3
suzy_creamcheese;961683 wrote: there is no halfway house. Its either a woman making her own decision about it or a man making the decision for her.
What if the man wanted an abortion but the woman didnt. Would you be so keen to push for his rights to an equal say if it meant more abortions happened?
Plenty of women are pushed into abortions that they dont actually want and that is a terrible thing. Being pro choice means that that wouldnt happen either
If it were up to me, tie goes to the baby.
What if the man wanted an abortion but the woman didnt. Would you be so keen to push for his rights to an equal say if it meant more abortions happened?
Plenty of women are pushed into abortions that they dont actually want and that is a terrible thing. Being pro choice means that that wouldnt happen either
If it were up to me, tie goes to the baby.
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suzy_creamcheese
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Abortion poll - part 3
but if neither partner want it, then thats two against one.
Fairs fair. Nothing personal against the baby. If they were allbrought by the stork or found under a cabbage patch then that would be different, but its more the forcing someone to go through the hell that is pregnancy when they dont want to that is abhorrant to me.
Its an issue that some people will never agree on.
Fairs fair. Nothing personal against the baby. If they were allbrought by the stork or found under a cabbage patch then that would be different, but its more the forcing someone to go through the hell that is pregnancy when they dont want to that is abhorrant to me.
Its an issue that some people will never agree on.
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Accountable
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Abortion poll - part 3
suzy_creamcheese;961883 wrote: but if neither partner want it, then thats two against one.
Fairs fair. Nothing personal against the baby. If they were allbrought by the stork or found under a cabbage patch then that would be different, but its more the forcing someone to go through the hell that is pregnancy when they dont want to that is abhorrant to me.
Its an issue that some people will never agree on.
True. I'll never see nine months of discomfort as more important than a life of unlimited potential.
Fairs fair. Nothing personal against the baby. If they were allbrought by the stork or found under a cabbage patch then that would be different, but its more the forcing someone to go through the hell that is pregnancy when they dont want to that is abhorrant to me.
Its an issue that some people will never agree on.
True. I'll never see nine months of discomfort as more important than a life of unlimited potential.
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
That could be a gender thing.
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suzy_creamcheese
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Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;961894 wrote: True. I'll never see nine months of discomfort as more important than a life of unlimited potential.
I would, but then ive done it three times and i never will again. If i accidently fall pregnant theres no way id go through with it. I only just about cope as it is.
I would, but then ive done it three times and i never will again. If i accidently fall pregnant theres no way id go through with it. I only just about cope as it is.
Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;961586 wrote: I've been waiting for you JAB. That's true. But he isn't carrying it. He's not going to have to deliver it. Are you suggesting that because a woman carries a child she loves that child more than the father?...
RedGlitter;961586 wrote:
And ultimately except in some instances, it will be the woman who will be saddled with raising it into a decent human being. I agree society is at a point where most of the families consist of a stay at home mother but to insinuate that most of the responsibility rests on the mother in raising a child without taking into account this isn't wholeheartedly true isn't accurate as far as I'm concerned...
RedGlitter;961586 wrote:
As long as she does most of the work and the responsibility of even getting pregnant rests with her as demonstrated by attitudes in in this thread, it's not a fair situation. Until men can conceive and deliver, pregnancy is still the woman's domain. Like Nature's double standard as Acc puts it, it may not be fair but that's how Nature made it. I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how I see it. How do you consider it purely the womans' right to have sole say over a child because they "consume most of the responsibility" yet do not feel it's "...why parents need to impress on their daughters that every time - every time - they have sex they are gambling against Nature on pregnancy."?...
That's true. But he isn't carrying it. He's not going to have to deliver it. Are you suggesting that because a woman carries a child she loves that child more than the father?...RedGlitter;961586 wrote:
And ultimately except in some instances, it will be the woman who will be saddled with raising it into a decent human being. I agree society is at a point where most of the families consist of a stay at home mother but to insinuate that most of the responsibility rests on the mother in raising a child without taking into account this isn't wholeheartedly true isn't accurate as far as I'm concerned...
RedGlitter;961586 wrote:
As long as she does most of the work and the responsibility of even getting pregnant rests with her as demonstrated by attitudes in in this thread, it's not a fair situation. Until men can conceive and deliver, pregnancy is still the woman's domain. Like Nature's double standard as Acc puts it, it may not be fair but that's how Nature made it. I'm not trying to tell you what to think. I'm just telling you how I see it. How do you consider it purely the womans' right to have sole say over a child because they "consume most of the responsibility" yet do not feel it's "...why parents need to impress on their daughters that every time - every time - they have sex they are gambling against Nature on pregnancy."?...
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Snidely Whiplash
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Abortion poll - part 3
Any civilization that won't protect the most vulnerable and innocent in they're society are barbaric at they're core, and that society is destined to collapse...
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southern yankee
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Abortion poll - part 3
I have not admitted this to many people. but i had a abortion. i was over 40 when i did. i will admit it was one of the hardest things i had to do. But my life was a total mess then. The father of the child backed me 100%. There was no other choice at that time. We both knew that. I was attacked by pro life members when i went. The names they called me. my now husband protected me from them. People do not do this on a whim. It is well thought out. I thank God i had the choice. :-1
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
That's why it should always remain an individual's private decision. Because you can never know or judge what goes on in another person's life.
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southern yankee
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Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;962594 wrote: That's why it should always remain an individual's private decision. Because you can never know or judge what goes on in another person's life. thank you dear
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RedGlitter
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Abortion poll - part 3
southern yankee;962601 wrote: thank you dear
You're welcome SY. Thank you for your openness in sharing with us something so difficult and personal.
You're welcome SY. Thank you for your openness in sharing with us something so difficult and personal.
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southern yankee
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Abortion poll - part 3
RedGlitter;962605 wrote: You're welcome SY. Thank you for your openness in sharing with us something so difficult and personal. living in the deep south as i do. i have learned not to talk about it much. no understanding here. i being of liberal nature. feel alone sometimes.
:o
:o-
Snidely Whiplash
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Abortion poll - part 3
southern yankee;962589 wrote: I have not admitted this to many people. but i had a abortion. i was over 40 when i did. i will admit it was one of the hardest things i had to do. But my life was a total mess then. The father of the child backed me 100%. There was no other choice at that time. We both knew that. I was attacked by pro life members when i went. The names they called me. my now husband protected me from them. People do not do this on a whim. It is well thought out. I thank God i had the choice. :-1
Although I am pro life, I would never be one of those to attack you for your decision... I also realise that people have times in they're lives(I have been there too) when they aren't in any shape to have a baby, and it would be an overwhelming burdon and possibly even wreck a marriage, relationship or family already in place...... I totally understand that, and would surely send hugs your way and to your family for that heart whenching time in your life...
I just don't believe in my heart that any of our problems, hardships or circumstances are a developing baby's fault, and ending that life makes anything better... I hope I cause no offense with my view... Obviously I have not had an abortion, and have not walked in your shoes, so I would not judge your decision... I can only comment on what I believe from the experiences I've had...
I would never post anything in this topic to intentionally upset you, because this is a highly emotional issue, but I've seen many pictures of aborted babies at all stages, and the whole thing is very emotional to me also... I think it's the most barbaric medical procedure I've ever seen, and the pictures on it make me ill sometimes...
I hope my views don't cause anyone any discomfort.... But thats what I feel...
Although I am pro life, I would never be one of those to attack you for your decision... I also realise that people have times in they're lives(I have been there too) when they aren't in any shape to have a baby, and it would be an overwhelming burdon and possibly even wreck a marriage, relationship or family already in place...... I totally understand that, and would surely send hugs your way and to your family for that heart whenching time in your life...
I just don't believe in my heart that any of our problems, hardships or circumstances are a developing baby's fault, and ending that life makes anything better... I hope I cause no offense with my view... Obviously I have not had an abortion, and have not walked in your shoes, so I would not judge your decision... I can only comment on what I believe from the experiences I've had...
I would never post anything in this topic to intentionally upset you, because this is a highly emotional issue, but I've seen many pictures of aborted babies at all stages, and the whole thing is very emotional to me also... I think it's the most barbaric medical procedure I've ever seen, and the pictures on it make me ill sometimes...
I hope my views don't cause anyone any discomfort.... But thats what I feel...
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962586 wrote: Any civilization that won't protect the most vulnerable and innocent in they're society are barbaric at they're core, and that society is destined to collapse...
Yes but what we're looking for is in which is "vulnerable and innocent"...
Yes but what we're looking for is in which is "vulnerable and innocent"...
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southern yankee
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Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962613 wrote: Although I am pro life, I would never be one of those to attack you for your decision... I also realise that people have times in they're lives(I have been there too) when they aren't in any shape to have a baby, and it would be an overwhelming burdon and possibly even wreck a marriage, relationship or family already in place...... I totally understand that, and would surely send hugs your way and to your family for that heart whenching time in your life...
I just don't believe in my heart that any of our problems, hardships or circumstances are a developing baby's fault, and ending that life makes anything better... I hope I cause no offense with my view... Obviously I have not had an abortion, and have not walked in your shoes, so I would not judge your decision... I can only comment on what I believe from the experiences I've had...
I would never post anything in this topic to intentionally upset you, because this is a highly emotional issue, but I've seen many pictures of aborted babies at all stages, and the whole thing is very emotional to me also... I think it's the most barbaric medical procedure I've ever seen, and the pictures on it make me ill sometimes...
I hope my views don't cause anyone any discomfort.... But thats what I feel... :(i understand how you feel. as long as you do not judge me. i will not judge you
I just don't believe in my heart that any of our problems, hardships or circumstances are a developing baby's fault, and ending that life makes anything better... I hope I cause no offense with my view... Obviously I have not had an abortion, and have not walked in your shoes, so I would not judge your decision... I can only comment on what I believe from the experiences I've had...
I would never post anything in this topic to intentionally upset you, because this is a highly emotional issue, but I've seen many pictures of aborted babies at all stages, and the whole thing is very emotional to me also... I think it's the most barbaric medical procedure I've ever seen, and the pictures on it make me ill sometimes...
I hope my views don't cause anyone any discomfort.... But thats what I feel... :(i understand how you feel. as long as you do not judge me. i will not judge you
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Snidely Whiplash
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Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;962614 wrote: Yes but what we're looking for is in which is "vulnerable and innocent"...
Are you actually asking which is the innocent party, the unborn baby or the mother..?? And to anyone who's had an abortion I don't mean to say you are guilty of anything, the term "innocence" is meant in a general way....
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
Are you actually asking which is the innocent party, the unborn baby or the mother..?? And to anyone who's had an abortion I don't mean to say you are guilty of anything, the term "innocence" is meant in a general way....
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
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southern yankee
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Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962621 wrote: Are you actually asking which is the innocent party, the unborn baby or the mother..?? And to anyone who's had an abortion I don't mean to say you are guilty of anything, the term "innocence" is meant in a general way....
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...? we all have tough choices to make in our lives. Until others have to choose. they have no right to judge. the old saying ---try walking a mile in my shoes.
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...? we all have tough choices to make in our lives. Until others have to choose. they have no right to judge. the old saying ---try walking a mile in my shoes.
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962621 wrote: Are you actually asking which is the innocent party, the unborn baby or the mother..?? And to anyone who's had an abortion I don't mean to say you are guilty of anything, the term "innocence" is meant in a general way....
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
I asked you chief...
I've voiced my opinions...I'd suggest you read the thread...
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
I asked you chief...
I've voiced my opinions...I'd suggest you read the thread...
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962621 wrote:
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
I've never said an unborn baby wasn't 100% innocent...
You seem to imply that it's impossible for there to be more than one person 100% innocent in such a circumstance...
Meanwhile, you haven't answered my question...
No offense, but how do you assume that an unborn baby has had a chance to be anything other than 100% completely innocent in every way...?
I've never said an unborn baby wasn't 100% innocent...
You seem to imply that it's impossible for there to be more than one person 100% innocent in such a circumstance...
Meanwhile, you haven't answered my question...
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Snidely Whiplash
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Abortion poll - part 3
Certainly I'm not interested in part 1 of this 3 part argument over what every abortion topic leads to, "arguing"... Even if it involves Obama and what he really means when he says something about it....? All I read at the top of this "Poll" was should abortion be legal or not, however you phrased it, and that is what I'm posting to... I never judged anyone here, or meant any hurt to anyone who has had an abortion and is still suffering from the emotional effects.....
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962644 wrote: Certainly I'm not interested in part 1 of this 3 part argument over what every abortion topic leads to, "arguing"... Even if it involves Obama and what he really means when he says something about it....? All I read at the top of this "Poll" was should abortion be legal or not, however you phrased it, and that is what I'm posting to... I never judged anyone here, or meant any hurt to anyone who has had an abortion and is still suffering from the emotional effects.....
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
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Accountable
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Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962644 wrote: Certainly I'm not interested in part 1 of this 3 part argument over what every abortion topic leads to, "arguing"... Even if it involves Obama and what he really means when he says something about it....? All I read at the top of this "Poll" was should abortion be legal or not, however you phrased it, and that is what I'm posting to... I never judged anyone here, or meant any hurt to anyone who has had an abortion and is still suffering from the emotional effects.....
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
I agree completely.
I just believe what I believe, I'm not ashamed of it, nor do I make excuses for what I believe....
I believe that every baby from the moment of conception is a new human being, with a new brain, a new heart, a new soul, and little arms and legs, and fingers and toes of it's own.... I don't care what problems the parents have, or if three eyed cousin Larry raped the mother, that baby is still a new human being, and not guilty of anything that the parents did, or anyone else involved... That baby's life should be protected and the baby given a chance at life...
Sorry some will be offended.... But I won't lie or pretend to be middle of the road on this issue.... I believe in it too strongly...
And I wish everyone the best here, whether anyone has experienced an abortion or not.....
I agree completely.
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Accountable
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Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;962646 wrote: Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
An abortion is absolutely not appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result.
If my wife became pregnant now, in her 40's, and the doctor said her life was in danger if she carried the baby to term, my vote would be to do all we could to save both lives and take our chances.
Don't bother trying to stretch this into some other extreme question for me, K. I won't answer.
An abortion is absolutely not appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result.
If my wife became pregnant now, in her 40's, and the doctor said her life was in danger if she carried the baby to term, my vote would be to do all we could to save both lives and take our chances.
Don't bother trying to stretch this into some other extreme question for me, K. I won't answer.
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suzy_creamcheese
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Abortion poll - part 3
southern yankee;962589 wrote: I have not admitted this to many people. but i had a abortion. i was over 40 when i did. i will admit it was one of the hardest things i had to do. But my life was a total mess then. The father of the child backed me 100%. There was no other choice at that time. We both knew that. I was attacked by pro life members when i went. The names they called me. my now husband protected me from them. People do not do this on a whim. It is well thought out. I thank God i had the choice. :-1
hugs to you SY. I had one too when I was 17. I dont regret it. Possibly because I dont see an embryo as a person.
hugs to you SY. I had one too when I was 17. I dont regret it. Possibly because I dont see an embryo as a person.
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Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;962646 wrote: Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
Show me the statistics of how often that is an issue...? That is not an issue, and is a one in a million instance....
But in all honesty, I'm not sure of which life is more important...? They are 2 human beings.... Which should be saved...? If you witnessed a car crash and there was a mother and a child in the car and it was about to burst into flames, which would you save if you only had one chance...?
It's not my place to choose one life over another, or which life to end and which to save.......??? I guess that debate will go on forever........... Let the politicians decide.... Let the payoffs and coruption from the left counter the contributions and prayers from the right......
Time will tell....
Show me the statistics of how often that is an issue...? That is not an issue, and is a one in a million instance....
But in all honesty, I'm not sure of which life is more important...? They are 2 human beings.... Which should be saved...? If you witnessed a car crash and there was a mother and a child in the car and it was about to burst into flames, which would you save if you only had one chance...?
It's not my place to choose one life over another, or which life to end and which to save.......??? I guess that debate will go on forever........... Let the politicians decide.... Let the payoffs and coruption from the left counter the contributions and prayers from the right......
Time will tell....
Abortion poll - part 3
Snidely Whiplash;962996 wrote: Show me the statistics of how often that is an issue...? That is not an issue, and is a one in a million instance....
But in all honesty, I'm not sure of which life is more important...? They are 2 human beings.... Which should be saved...? If you witnessed a car crash and there was a mother and a child in the car and it was about to burst into flames, which would you save if you only had one chance...?
I'm looking for the basis of your logic...
It doesn't matter what the percentages are...The fact still remains it happens...Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
Snidely Whiplash;962996 wrote:
It's not my place to choose one life over another, or which life to end and which to save.......??? I guess that debate will go on forever........... Let the politicians decide.... Let the payoffs and coruption from the left counter the contributions and prayers from the right......
Time will tell....
Well how anyone can form an opinion on a matter without having looked at all of the angles means quit blatantly that your opinion is only half pondered...
But in all honesty, I'm not sure of which life is more important...? They are 2 human beings.... Which should be saved...? If you witnessed a car crash and there was a mother and a child in the car and it was about to burst into flames, which would you save if you only had one chance...?
I'm looking for the basis of your logic...
It doesn't matter what the percentages are...The fact still remains it happens...Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
Snidely Whiplash;962996 wrote:
It's not my place to choose one life over another, or which life to end and which to save.......??? I guess that debate will go on forever........... Let the politicians decide.... Let the payoffs and coruption from the left counter the contributions and prayers from the right......
Time will tell....
Well how anyone can form an opinion on a matter without having looked at all of the angles means quit blatantly that your opinion is only half pondered...Abortion poll - part 3
Accountable;962749 wrote: An abortion is absolutely not appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result.
If my wife became pregnant now, in her 40's, and the doctor said her life was in danger if she carried the baby to term, my vote would be to do all we could to save both lives and take our chances.
Don't bother trying to stretch this into some other extreme question for me, K. I won't answer.
Well I have an understanding of where you're coming from so I don't feel the need...
I thought the question was more than relevant...
If my wife became pregnant now, in her 40's, and the doctor said her life was in danger if she carried the baby to term, my vote would be to do all we could to save both lives and take our chances.
Don't bother trying to stretch this into some other extreme question for me, K. I won't answer.
Well I have an understanding of where you're coming from so I don't feel the need...
I thought the question was more than relevant...
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Snidely Whiplash
- Posts: 176
- Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:33 pm
Abortion poll - part 3
K.Snyder;963676 wrote: I'm looking for the basis of your logic...
It doesn't matter what the percentages are...The fact still remains it happens...Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
Why do you say it doesn't matter what the percentages are...? Of course it matters.... Because those percentages are like the posibility of a meteor falling on your house, they are slim at best, and seldom happen..... But to answer your question, "I put the mother and baby in the hands of the doctors treating them, because what I think means nothing, it's the decisions that the doctors make concerning those 2 lives that matters"......
K.Snyder;963676 wrote:
Well how anyone can form an opinion on a matter without having looked at all of the angles means quit blatantly that your opinion is only half pondered...
Why do you say I haven't looked at all the angles..? Here's an angle for you to ponder that maybe you haven't considered............................ Just after conception, if you take a DNA sample from the developing fetus or baby or whatever you want to call him/her, and also take a DNA sample of the mother, they are completely seperate DNA structures, except of course for the family traites that we all share with our parents.... Two seperate people...... The question is does that new person have any right to live and be protected, or is that life subject to the feelings and whims of the mother and father, as to whether it lives or dies..... My view is that that little person with a new seperate DNA deserves the same rights to life as any of us do today, and even more so because that new life can't protect him/her self like we can......
I think I've done my homework on this issue, and have based my opinion logically on the facts..... Yes I have moral and religious beliefs, but on the facts alone those things aside, I feel I see ample evidence that a new life begins at conception... And even if some have a question about that, if a human life is at stake, shouldn't it be given the benifit of the doubt, untill everyone is sure....?
I'm not posting anymore in this topic, it will just upset some, and I don't want to do that any further.... Very sorry for upsetting those who have gone through an abortion and find what I post upsetting.... I'm sorry...
Bye bye topic
It doesn't matter what the percentages are...The fact still remains it happens...Do you feel an abortion is appropriate if it leads to the possibility of the mother passing as a result?...
Why do you say it doesn't matter what the percentages are...? Of course it matters.... Because those percentages are like the posibility of a meteor falling on your house, they are slim at best, and seldom happen..... But to answer your question, "I put the mother and baby in the hands of the doctors treating them, because what I think means nothing, it's the decisions that the doctors make concerning those 2 lives that matters"......
K.Snyder;963676 wrote:
Well how anyone can form an opinion on a matter without having looked at all of the angles means quit blatantly that your opinion is only half pondered...
Why do you say I haven't looked at all the angles..? Here's an angle for you to ponder that maybe you haven't considered............................ Just after conception, if you take a DNA sample from the developing fetus or baby or whatever you want to call him/her, and also take a DNA sample of the mother, they are completely seperate DNA structures, except of course for the family traites that we all share with our parents.... Two seperate people...... The question is does that new person have any right to live and be protected, or is that life subject to the feelings and whims of the mother and father, as to whether it lives or dies..... My view is that that little person with a new seperate DNA deserves the same rights to life as any of us do today, and even more so because that new life can't protect him/her self like we can......
I think I've done my homework on this issue, and have based my opinion logically on the facts..... Yes I have moral and religious beliefs, but on the facts alone those things aside, I feel I see ample evidence that a new life begins at conception... And even if some have a question about that, if a human life is at stake, shouldn't it be given the benifit of the doubt, untill everyone is sure....?
I'm not posting anymore in this topic, it will just upset some, and I don't want to do that any further.... Very sorry for upsetting those who have gone through an abortion and find what I post upsetting.... I'm sorry...
Bye bye topic