LarsMac;1270226 wrote: Where did you get the idea that I object to people being taught about evolution?
Not you personally but i get the impression that in the states there is a real movement to prevent the theory of evolution being taught in schools. It seems to be a peculiarly american phenomenon which hopefully will never gain ground here. It's always an american that brings this subject up. The validity of the theory of evolution isn't really questioned anywhere else in the world except in the most backward countries.
posted by joey 2000
j/k. I respect people's right to believe whatever they want, even if I - gasp - disagree with it, and acknowledge I don't have all the answers. I only ask the same respect and understanding from others. Sadly, far too many many people of all beliefs (including but certainly not limited to atheists) can't handle that.
see above. I don't have a problem with religious belief until it is used as a justification for bigotry and prejudice and the religious claim a special right to make judgements based their ridiculous belief system and force the rest of society to comply.
joey 2000
God always was and always shall be
Sorry. Truth hurts.
That's not a truth it's an opinion.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
gmc;1270314 wrote: Not you personally but i get the impression that in the states there is a real movement to prevent the theory of evolution being taught in schools. It seems to be a peculiarly american phenomenon which hopefully will never gain ground here. It's always an american that brings this subject up.
Looks to me like you brought it up. So you're just visiting Scotland then?
I don't have a problem with religious belief until it is used as a justification for bigotry and prejudice and the religious claim a special right to make judgements based their ridiculous belief system and force the rest of society to comply. Gotta love the irony of the pot/kettle thing. :rolleyes:
And thanks for (unintentionally) proving my previous post.
That's not a truth it's an opinion.
"j/k" means "just kidding" FYI. I was just yanking your chain.
Looks to me like you brought it up. So you're just visiting Scotland then?
I don't have a problem with religious belief until it is used as a justification for bigotry and prejudice and the religious claim a special right to make judgements based their ridiculous belief system and force the rest of society to comply. Gotta love the irony of the pot/kettle thing. :rolleyes:
And thanks for (unintentionally) proving my previous post.
That's not a truth it's an opinion.
"j/k" means "just kidding" FYI. I was just yanking your chain.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
I think this current confusion stems from the use of the words Intelligent Design by LarsMac though I don't think he meant it in the more direct sense. I think gmc honed in on that. No need to get personal about any of it.
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270342 wrote: I think this current confusion stems from the use of the words Intelligent Design by LarsMac though I don't think he meant it in the more direct sense. I think gmc honed in on that. No need to get personal about any of it.
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
The christian bible is folk lure
The problem is those that read the christian bible as being literal
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
How anyone could feel comfortable with the thought one needs the bible in order to relate to the parables within it/them is utterly dangerous and a disgrace to humanity
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
The christian bible is folk lure
The problem is those that read the christian bible as being literal
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
How anyone could feel comfortable with the thought one needs the bible in order to relate to the parables within it/them is utterly dangerous and a disgrace to humanity
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270322 wrote: Looks to me like you brought it up. So you're just visiting Scotland then?
Gotta love the irony of the pot/kettle thing. :rolleyes:
And thanks for (unintentionally) proving my previous post.
"j/k" means "just kidding" FYI. I was just yanking your chain.
You're right so I did. No I'm not just visiting-happily I'm not an american.
It's just the subject always seems to be brought up by an american who is usually a creationist. I thought j/k was just a phantom typing error. Many i find are like myself-they cab spll, they can tyoe it's just two together geos wrang simetimes.
As it happens I had been trawling richard dawkins site and had been listening to that one about still crazy after all these years. I find it incredible that anyone still holds to biblical creation. I think america must be a very frightening place for free thinkers-especially round the bible belt. As it happens I live in a part of Scotland where sectarianism is still rife-there are still orange marches and the like hence the crack about religion being used to justify hatred.
posted by K snyder
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
The King James version was authorised by a gay scotsman which is a great fact to annoy fundamentalists with if that is their reference. Just watch who you say it to though.
Gotta love the irony of the pot/kettle thing. :rolleyes:
And thanks for (unintentionally) proving my previous post.
"j/k" means "just kidding" FYI. I was just yanking your chain.
You're right so I did. No I'm not just visiting-happily I'm not an american.
It's just the subject always seems to be brought up by an american who is usually a creationist. I thought j/k was just a phantom typing error. Many i find are like myself-they cab spll, they can tyoe it's just two together geos wrang simetimes.
As it happens I had been trawling richard dawkins site and had been listening to that one about still crazy after all these years. I find it incredible that anyone still holds to biblical creation. I think america must be a very frightening place for free thinkers-especially round the bible belt. As it happens I live in a part of Scotland where sectarianism is still rife-there are still orange marches and the like hence the crack about religion being used to justify hatred.
posted by K snyder
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
The King James version was authorised by a gay scotsman which is a great fact to annoy fundamentalists with if that is their reference. Just watch who you say it to though.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
K.Snyder;1270353 wrote: The christian bible is folk lure
The problem is those that read the christian bible as being literal
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
How anyone could feel comfortable with the thought one needs the bible in order to relate to the parables within it/them is utterly dangerous and a disgrace to humanity
Aren't trolls the cutest little thing?
:rolleyes:
The problem is those that read the christian bible as being literal
The christian bible is immensely patronizing and insulting to anyone with an ounce of rationality and their intelligence
How anyone could feel comfortable with the thought one needs the bible in order to relate to the parables within it/them is utterly dangerous and a disgrace to humanity
Aren't trolls the cutest little thing?
:rolleyes:
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
gmc;1270437 wrote: I think america must be a very frightening place for free thinkers-especially round the bible belt. Think again. Honestly I'm amazed every time I run into someone who such a ridiculous mindset, frankly. Nothing personal, I'm sure many Europeans feel similar, but that'd be like me talking about how Scots are so silly because they're all walking around in kilts and playing bagpipes, or how all the French walk around in those silly poofy black hats and smoke. Not saying what you mention doesn't exist here, but it's FAR from the norm and far far less than it was in (many) years gone by.
As it happens I live in a part of Scotland where sectarianism is still rife-there are still orange marches and the like hence the crack about religion being used to justify hatred.....and yet it's America you're ripping on. Sounds like you should be ripping on Scotland, or your area of it at least. You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. In fact, most "clashing" between people of diff religions in America is mostly on the internet.
As it happens I live in a part of Scotland where sectarianism is still rife-there are still orange marches and the like hence the crack about religion being used to justify hatred.....and yet it's America you're ripping on. Sounds like you should be ripping on Scotland, or your area of it at least. You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. In fact, most "clashing" between people of diff religions in America is mostly on the internet.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270342 wrote: I think this current confusion stems from the use of the words Intelligent Design by LarsMac though I don't think he meant it in the more direct sense. I think gmc honed in on that. No need to get personal about any of it.
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
Well, let's stop a sec.
What, exactly, is the "Theory of Evolution"?
There is no "Theory of Evolution"
Evolution is an observed process.
There are theories that attempt to explain evolution.
The one that gets most folks' shorts tied in a knot is Darwin's theory, explained in his work, 'Origin of Species'.
Darwin and his contemporaries have explained the process pretty darned well, I think.
And yes, I agree that trying to keep the science out of the classroom is deplorable.
As i said earlier, It's interesting that there are so many more combo people than straight creationist folk. Shows movement, but on the negative side of it whats also revealing is that the combo people are wanting educationally in either or both subjects (assuming Christianity of some sort is the religion of choice).
If you read both the Christian Bible and the Theory of Evolution, they can't both possibly be accurate along the same line. That does not meant one has to be abandoned or sacrificed for the other. Just separated.
Well, let's stop a sec.
What, exactly, is the "Theory of Evolution"?
There is no "Theory of Evolution"
Evolution is an observed process.
There are theories that attempt to explain evolution.
The one that gets most folks' shorts tied in a knot is Darwin's theory, explained in his work, 'Origin of Species'.
Darwin and his contemporaries have explained the process pretty darned well, I think.
And yes, I agree that trying to keep the science out of the classroom is deplorable.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
LarsMac;1270470 wrote:
There is no "Theory of Evolution"
Evolution is an observed process.
There are theories that attempt to explain evolution.
:-2
Hence the term "Theory of Evolution." Don't get what you're saying here.
There is no "Theory of Evolution"
Evolution is an observed process.
There are theories that attempt to explain evolution.
:-2
Hence the term "Theory of Evolution." Don't get what you're saying here.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270462 wrote: Think again. Honestly I'm amazed every time I run into someone who such a ridiculous mindset, frankly. Nothing personal, I'm sure many Europeans feel similar, but that'd be like me talking about how Scots are so silly because they're all walking around in kilts and playing bagpipes, or how all the French walk around in those silly poofy black hats and smoke. Not saying what you mention doesn't exist here, but it's FAR from the norm and far far less than it was in (many) years gone by.
....and yet it's America you're ripping on. Sounds like you should be ripping on Scotland, or your area of it at least. You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. In fact, most "clashing" between people of diff religions in America is mostly on the internet.
I would just assume you had been watching brigadoon again if you went on about kilts.
I wouldn't say I had a mindset I'm just going by things like that link I posted. I find it intriguing-It does seem to be a major issue in US with something of a religious revival going on. Maybe it's because it gets so much airtime and so many keep bringing it up. It's seems to be only in America people appear to have a real problem with the theory of evolution.
You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. They don't here either really although some would have at it in the right circumstances, they've only just about stopped doing it in northern ireland.
and yet it's America you're ripping on.
You're an american-most of the posters are american so naturally it tends to be america that gets talked about. You're exotic and, well, foreign, with funny ideas.
....and yet it's America you're ripping on. Sounds like you should be ripping on Scotland, or your area of it at least. You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. In fact, most "clashing" between people of diff religions in America is mostly on the internet.
I would just assume you had been watching brigadoon again if you went on about kilts.
I wouldn't say I had a mindset I'm just going by things like that link I posted. I find it intriguing-It does seem to be a major issue in US with something of a religious revival going on. Maybe it's because it gets so much airtime and so many keep bringing it up. It's seems to be only in America people appear to have a real problem with the theory of evolution.
You won't see (eg) Protestants and Catholics at each other's throats here. They don't here either really although some would have at it in the right circumstances, they've only just about stopped doing it in northern ireland.
and yet it's America you're ripping on.
You're an american-most of the posters are american so naturally it tends to be america that gets talked about. You're exotic and, well, foreign, with funny ideas.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270455 wrote: Aren't trolls the cutest little thing?
:rolleyes:
What do trolls have to do with the what I've posted?
Do you have anything relevant to say to my exertion or no?
:rolleyes:
What do trolls have to do with the what I've posted?
Do you have anything relevant to say to my exertion or no?
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
K.Snyder;1270543 wrote: What do trolls have to do with the what I've posted?
Do you have anything relevant to say to my exertion or no?
No, obviously - he disagrees with you therefore you must be a troll :yh_rotfl
Do you have anything relevant to say to my exertion or no?
No, obviously - he disagrees with you therefore you must be a troll :yh_rotfl
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Evolutionist for me please. Simply because to me it's the only one that makes real sense, however I'm not entirely sure that they need to be mutually exclusive, unless we can guarantee the accuracy of Creationism, which of course we can't.
Evolutionary psychology is of particular interest to me, eg genetic transmission and diversity and selection (natural, sexual etc) Love to hear if anyone has any opinions on this, or has studied it.
Evolutionary psychology is of particular interest to me, eg genetic transmission and diversity and selection (natural, sexual etc) Love to hear if anyone has any opinions on this, or has studied it.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Elvira;1270783 wrote: Evolutionist for me please. Simply because to me it's the only one that makes real sense, however I'm not entirely sure that they need to be mutually exclusive, unless we can guarantee the accuracy of Creationism, which of course we can't.
Evolutionary psychology is of particular interest to me, eg genetic transmission and diversity and selection (natural, sexual etc) Love to hear if anyone has any opinions on this, or has studied it.Heres a great book to read.
Since submerging myself into understand evolution I've realized that the concept itself can be applied to everything in life. In the book I linked to above, David Sloan Wilson examines and explains how that is possible. Wilson is also a contributor to the Huffinton post, a lecturer and professor.
Evolutionary psychology is of particular interest to me, eg genetic transmission and diversity and selection (natural, sexual etc) Love to hear if anyone has any opinions on this, or has studied it.Heres a great book to read.
Since submerging myself into understand evolution I've realized that the concept itself can be applied to everything in life. In the book I linked to above, David Sloan Wilson examines and explains how that is possible. Wilson is also a contributor to the Huffinton post, a lecturer and professor.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1270618 wrote: No, obviously - he disagrees with you therefore you must be a troll :yh_rotfl
All I'm worried about is the "cutest" part of it! :yh_rotfl
All I'm worried about is the "cutest" part of it! :yh_rotfl
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1270618 wrote: No, obviously - he disagrees with you therefore you must be a troll :yh_rotfl
tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270852 wrote: tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.He's sure got your attention i see.
You may not agree with KSnyder and he may often take the long way around, but his input is valid and he is not a troll, nor is he an "attention whore."
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.He's sure got your attention i see.
You may not agree with KSnyder and he may often take the long way around, but his input is valid and he is not a troll, nor is he an "attention whore."
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270852 wrote: tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
He has posted an opinion within the context of the discussion and in direct response to the contents of the previous post - by definition that is not Trolling.
Your accusing him of being a Troll, however, could well be interpreted as a personal attack.
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
He has posted an opinion within the context of the discussion and in direct response to the contents of the previous post - by definition that is not Trolling.
Your accusing him of being a Troll, however, could well be interpreted as a personal attack.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
"In the Beginning, God Created Evolution."
(That worked out so well, He took the rest of the week off to play golf.):D
(That worked out so well, He took the rest of the week off to play golf.):D
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270852 wrote: tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
He's also been a member since 2005. Trolls tend to be relatively new members who drop by make inane contributions and then go away.
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
He's also been a member since 2005. Trolls tend to be relatively new members who drop by make inane contributions and then go away.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
I would like for a creationist (who rejects evolution) to explain how a biological process works. For example: the immune system.
Can you account for how or what keeps this process in check most of the time, why auto-immune disorders occur, and why some people but not all people are born with natural immunity to illnesses like HIV and "the black death"?
Also, can you explain of what will happen if everyone is eventually exposed to HIV? What process allows for the mutation of these diseases as well, or for their ability to jump across a species barrier (and no it's not anal sex
). How does the body develop new antibodies against new diseases?
I suspect "creationism" is just another word for "I'm not really interested in real science... make believe is more fun. Weeee!"
Can you account for how or what keeps this process in check most of the time, why auto-immune disorders occur, and why some people but not all people are born with natural immunity to illnesses like HIV and "the black death"?
Also, can you explain of what will happen if everyone is eventually exposed to HIV? What process allows for the mutation of these diseases as well, or for their ability to jump across a species barrier (and no it's not anal sex
). How does the body develop new antibodies against new diseases?I suspect "creationism" is just another word for "I'm not really interested in real science... make believe is more fun. Weeee!"
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
yaaarrrgg;1270917 wrote:
I suspect "creationism" is just another word for "I'm not really interested in real science... make believe is more fun. Weeee!"
LOL!:wah:
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
I suspect "creationism" is just another word for "I'm not really interested in real science... make believe is more fun. Weeee!"
LOL!:wah:
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Saint_;1270920 wrote: LOL!:wah:
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.;)Ones theology and the other is science. Would you advocate teaching theology and science as one subject? If not, then why advocate that they both occupy the same frame of discussion outside the classroom?
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.;)Ones theology and the other is science. Would you advocate teaching theology and science as one subject? If not, then why advocate that they both occupy the same frame of discussion outside the classroom?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Saint_;1270920 wrote: LOL!:wah:
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
Fine, I've no problem with "evolution is God's mechanism for creating the species living on the Earth". What I cannot accept is "evolution cannot be true because the Bible says ......".
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
Fine, I've no problem with "evolution is God's mechanism for creating the species living on the Earth". What I cannot accept is "evolution cannot be true because the Bible says ......".
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1270926 wrote: Fine, I've no problem with "evolution is God's mechanism for creating the species living on the Earth". What I cannot accept is "evolution cannot be true because the Bible says ......".
You and me both, brother!:wah:
You and me both, brother!:wah:
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270922 wrote: Ones theology and the other is science. Would you advocate teaching theology and science as one subject? If not, then why advocate that they both occupy the same frame of discussion outside the classroom?
Because evolution does not prove that God does not exist.
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.
Because evolution does not prove that God does not exist.
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270922 wrote: Ones theology and the other is science. Would you advocate teaching theology and science as one subject? If not, then why advocate that they both occupy the same frame of discussion outside the classroom?
Because each discipline is engaged in answering different questions. As to the classroom, in America we teach Science, but not Religion. We believe that that should be a person's or family's own business and not the State's.
Because each discipline is engaged in answering different questions. As to the classroom, in America we teach Science, but not Religion. We believe that that should be a person's or family's own business and not the State's.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1270929 wrote: Because evolution does not prove that God does not exist.
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.
I think you understood his reply better than I did. Whoops!:o
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.
I think you understood his reply better than I did. Whoops!:o
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
IMO a belief in God ought to be evaluated separately from evolution, though I agree evolution is the least of the worries.
Possibly evolution helps theism more than it hurts. The traditional view of creationism does nothing but pay a bad compliment to the creator. Since a smarter engineer wouldn't have to keep kicking his machine over six days to keep it going. He'd design up blueprints, build a machine, and push the button once, and step back as his creation unfolded. Not pressing the button six times over a series of days.
What's more troublesome for the existence of God is the existence of pain and suffering, and what that says about such a creator. Is this creator perfectly good and does it know everything?
Though if we assume evolution is true, than it does allow some more wiggle room for theists, because perhaps the world is not finished cooking.
Possibly evolution helps theism more than it hurts. The traditional view of creationism does nothing but pay a bad compliment to the creator. Since a smarter engineer wouldn't have to keep kicking his machine over six days to keep it going. He'd design up blueprints, build a machine, and push the button once, and step back as his creation unfolded. Not pressing the button six times over a series of days.
What's more troublesome for the existence of God is the existence of pain and suffering, and what that says about such a creator. Is this creator perfectly good and does it know everything?
Though if we assume evolution is true, than it does allow some more wiggle room for theists, because perhaps the world is not finished cooking.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1270929 wrote: Because evolution does not prove that God does not exist.
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.Its not evolutions mission to prove or disprove the existence of any God. Though science as a discipline rejects the existence of a God as there is no proof of such. Thus technically evolution, because it is science does not acknowledge the existence of a God.
Given that possibility, it is perfectly reasonable to include the two concepts within the same frame of discussion.Its not evolutions mission to prove or disprove the existence of any God. Though science as a discipline rejects the existence of a God as there is no proof of such. Thus technically evolution, because it is science does not acknowledge the existence of a God.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Saint_;1270930 wrote: Because each discipline is engaged in answering different questions. As to the classroom, in America we teach Science, but not Religion. We believe that that should be a person's or family's own business and not the State's.:)Heres the scenario: Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then inform the children that its because God did it this way? Now another kids say's, "okay then if evolution is factual science and God created the world using evolution, then when and how did God evolve"?
If you answer that question with "God just always was", aren't you contradicting everything you just taught?
If you answer that question with "God just always was", aren't you contradicting everything you just taught?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
yaaarrrgg;1270947 wrote: IMO a belief in God ought to be evaluated separately from evolution, though I agree evolution is the least of the worries.
Possibly evolution helps theism more than it hurts. The traditional view of creationism does nothing but pay a bad compliment to the creator. Since a smarter engineer wouldn't have to keep kicking his machine over six days to keep it going. He'd design up blueprints, build a machine, and push the button once, and step back as his creation unfolded. Not pressing the button six times over a series of days.
What's more troublesome for the existence of God is the existence of pain and suffering, and what that says about such a creator. Is this creator perfectly good and does it know everything?
Though if we assume evolution is true, than it does allow some more wiggle room for theists, because perhaps the world is not finished cooking.
LOL! I like the way you explained that, good analogies.:wah:
Possibly evolution helps theism more than it hurts. The traditional view of creationism does nothing but pay a bad compliment to the creator. Since a smarter engineer wouldn't have to keep kicking his machine over six days to keep it going. He'd design up blueprints, build a machine, and push the button once, and step back as his creation unfolded. Not pressing the button six times over a series of days.
What's more troublesome for the existence of God is the existence of pain and suffering, and what that says about such a creator. Is this creator perfectly good and does it know everything?
Though if we assume evolution is true, than it does allow some more wiggle room for theists, because perhaps the world is not finished cooking.
LOL! I like the way you explained that, good analogies.:wah:
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270953 wrote: Its not evolutions mission to prove or disprove the existence of any God. Though science as a discipline rejects the existence of a God as there is no proof of such. Thus technically evolution, because it is science does not acknowledge the existence of a God.
I disagree. Science as a discipline does not deny the existence of a God - it says that there is no proof for His existence, equally is says that there is no proof for His non-existence and therefore Science, as a discipline, says nothing on the matter.
I disagree. Science as a discipline does not deny the existence of a God - it says that there is no proof for His existence, equally is says that there is no proof for His non-existence and therefore Science, as a discipline, says nothing on the matter.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1270961 wrote: Heres the scenario: Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then inform the children that its because God did it this way? Now another kids say's, "okay then if evolution is factual science and God created the world using evolution, then when and how did God evolve"?
If you answer that question with "God just always was", aren't you contradicting everything you just taught?
Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then teach them about natural selection.
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.
If you answer that question with "God just always was", aren't you contradicting everything you just taught?
Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then teach them about natural selection.
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271013 wrote: Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then teach them about natural selection.
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.
Or the teacher can say, "That's a question for your parents or your minister, we are only studying the "how.":wah:
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.
Or the teacher can say, "That's a question for your parents or your minister, we are only studying the "how.":wah:
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271012 wrote: I disagree. Science as a discipline does not deny the existence of a God - it says that there is no proof for His existence, equally is says that there is no proof for His non-existence and therefore Science, as a discipline, says nothing on the matter.Can you show me any science peer reviewed papers that science accepts the existence of a God? I of course cannot show you any legitimate scientific theory proving the existence of God as I can show you the Theory of Evolution which is accepted by science academia because none exists to my knowledge. If science is not proving or has not proven the existence of God, then science rejects the premise of God.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Saint_;1270920 wrote: LOL!:wah:
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
It seems not. Creationists are convinced accepting the the theory of evolution proves the creation myth is just-well a myth. This isn't a problem since no one is insisting they accept the theory of evolution unless they want to.
However, any questioning of religious belief it seems is not to be allowed-even by those who are not religious. Bear in mind these people would have felt at home during the inquisition when any questioning of dogma would have been stamped on hard, it's the same kind of mentality, it is not logical, rational or even basic common sense.
It's not everyone that assumes they have to be at odds but religion cannot tolerate anything that casts doubt on their belief system. Rational people can tolerate religion but don't see why they should keep quiet about the fact they think it bunkum. It's a very old conflict-rationality and common sense against myth ans magic with the aggression ans hate coming from the religious who preach tolerance and understanding unless you don't see things exactly the way they think you should.
But seriously, why does everyone always assume that Religion and Science have to be at odds with each other? Can't God and Evolution both exist?
Science is mankind's attempt to understand how the Universe works.
Religion is mankind's attempt to understand why the Universe works.
It seems not. Creationists are convinced accepting the the theory of evolution proves the creation myth is just-well a myth. This isn't a problem since no one is insisting they accept the theory of evolution unless they want to.
However, any questioning of religious belief it seems is not to be allowed-even by those who are not religious. Bear in mind these people would have felt at home during the inquisition when any questioning of dogma would have been stamped on hard, it's the same kind of mentality, it is not logical, rational or even basic common sense.
It's not everyone that assumes they have to be at odds but religion cannot tolerate anything that casts doubt on their belief system. Rational people can tolerate religion but don't see why they should keep quiet about the fact they think it bunkum. It's a very old conflict-rationality and common sense against myth ans magic with the aggression ans hate coming from the religious who preach tolerance and understanding unless you don't see things exactly the way they think you should.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271013 wrote: Kids are in class learning evolution and one asks "why" and the teacher can then teach them about natural selection.
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.Natural selection is one process by which evolution occurs. I personally agree that evolution does teach the how and why in one as you've seemed to indicate, but explain to me where God comes into the picture of evolution if you will.
Your answer does not logically follow from the question.Natural selection is one process by which evolution occurs. I personally agree that evolution does teach the how and why in one as you've seemed to indicate, but explain to me where God comes into the picture of evolution if you will.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Saint_;1271025 wrote: Or the teacher can say, "That's a question for your parents or your minister, we are only studying the "how.":wah:How and why are one in evolution. Have you read Darwin's work, or are you just shootin' from the seat of your pants??
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271048 wrote: Can you show me any science peer reviewed papers that science accepts the existence of a God? I of course cannot show you any legitimate scientific theory proving the existence of God as I can show you the Theory of Evolution which is accepted by science academia because none exists to my knowledge. If science is not proving or has not proven the existence of God, then science rejects the premise of God.
Rubbish.
Since when has the absence of proof proved the opposite.
In order for science to reject God it has to have positive proof that God does not exist, not a lack of proof that He does exits - anything less is non-scientific.
Rubbish.
Since when has the absence of proof proved the opposite.
In order for science to reject God it has to have positive proof that God does not exist, not a lack of proof that He does exits - anything less is non-scientific.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271051 wrote: Natural selection is one process by which evolution occurs. I personally agree that evolution does teach the how and why in one as you've seemed to indicate, but explain to me where God comes into the picture of evolution if you will.
All I have said is that evolution does not preclude the existence of God - not that God is an integral part of evolution.
All I have said is that evolution does not preclude the existence of God - not that God is an integral part of evolution.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271054 wrote: Rubbish.
Since when has the absence of proof proved the opposite.
In order for science to reject God it has to have positive proof that God does not exist, not a lack of proof that He does exits - anything less is non-scientific.Science does not attempt to prove a negative.
Since when has the absence of proof proved the opposite.
In order for science to reject God it has to have positive proof that God does not exist, not a lack of proof that He does exits - anything less is non-scientific.Science does not attempt to prove a negative.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271055 wrote: All I have said is that evolution does not preclude the existence of God - not that God is an integral part of evolution.Why even offer a suggestion that evolution may be concerned with the existence of God?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271056 wrote: Science does not attempt to prove a negative.
There are many scientific proofs that a condition cannot exist - both maths and physics abound with them.
There are many scientific proofs that a condition cannot exist - both maths and physics abound with them.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271059 wrote: There are many scientific proofs that a condition cannot exist - both maths and physics abound with them.Before any theory there is a hypothesis, which in turn may become a theory. Show me where the hypothesis of a God has become theory.
If you can't then the existence of God is rejected by science. If it turns out that enough evidence comes to light supporting the existence of a God, then science no longer rejects the premise, but until that time, science rejects the idea of the existence of God. Thats science, thats how it works.
If you can't then the existence of God is rejected by science. If it turns out that enough evidence comes to light supporting the existence of a God, then science no longer rejects the premise, but until that time, science rejects the idea of the existence of God. Thats science, thats how it works.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271061 wrote: Before any theory there is a hypothesis, which in turn may become a theory. Show me where the hypothesis of a God has become theory.
If you can't then the existence of God is rejected by science. If it turns out that enough evidence comes to light supporting the existence of a God, then science no longer rejects the premise, but until that time, science rejects the idea of the existence of God. Thats science, thats how it works.
WHY?
I do not follow your logic.
As I have said before, that you cannot prove a positive does not prove the negative - that is not scientific method.
If you can't then the existence of God is rejected by science. If it turns out that enough evidence comes to light supporting the existence of a God, then science no longer rejects the premise, but until that time, science rejects the idea of the existence of God. Thats science, thats how it works.
WHY?
I do not follow your logic.
As I have said before, that you cannot prove a positive does not prove the negative - that is not scientific method.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Bryn Mawr;1271063 wrote: WHY?
I do not follow your logic.
As I have said before, that you cannot prove a positive does not prove the negative - that is not scientific method.Of course it does not prove the negative, however, the absence of evidence is the rejection. Perhaps you're actually opposing the use of the word "rejection", Bryn, maybe I should say science does not "recognize" without proof the existence of God. Does that suit better?
I do not follow your logic.
As I have said before, that you cannot prove a positive does not prove the negative - that is not scientific method.Of course it does not prove the negative, however, the absence of evidence is the rejection. Perhaps you're actually opposing the use of the word "rejection", Bryn, maybe I should say science does not "recognize" without proof the existence of God. Does that suit better?
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,â€
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Voltaire
I have only one thing to do and that's
Be the wave that I am and then
Sink back into the ocean
Fiona Apple
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271064 wrote: Of course it does not prove the negative, however, the absence of evidence is the rejection. Perhaps you're actually opposing the use of the word "rejection", Bryn, maybe I should say science does not "recognize" without proof the existence of God. Does that suit better?
Sure - totally different concept.
Recognise is a positive acceptance.
Reject is a positive denial.
Whilst I insist that science does not positively deny the existence of God, I agree that science does not positively accept it either.
Sure - totally different concept.
Recognise is a positive acceptance.
Reject is a positive denial.
Whilst I insist that science does not positively deny the existence of God, I agree that science does not positively accept it either.
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
joey2000;1270852 wrote: tee hee giggle
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
Definition
folklore - *the unwritten lore (stories and proverbs and riddles and songs) of a culture
*The tales, legends and superstitions of a particular ethnic population; Of or pertaining to folklore define:folklore - Google Search
Insult - abuse: a rude expression intended to offend or hurtdefine: insult - Google Search
If you find what I'd posted to be insulting then you're obviously insecure about your beliefs
The bible was written by other human beings and is no more "the word of god" than a simple "thank you" from a complete stranger
I have no desire to insult anyone,.."your" beliefs can do that for me
:rolleyes:
Check his previous "folk lure" post. It's pointedly inflammatory and obviously was posted only to insult. That's trolling. Also water is wet.
And since trolls are typically attention whores, that's all I have to say about it.
Definition
folklore - *the unwritten lore (stories and proverbs and riddles and songs) of a culture
*The tales, legends and superstitions of a particular ethnic population; Of or pertaining to folklore define:folklore - Google Search
Insult - abuse: a rude expression intended to offend or hurtdefine: insult - Google Search
If you find what I'd posted to be insulting then you're obviously insecure about your beliefs
The bible was written by other human beings and is no more "the word of god" than a simple "thank you" from a complete stranger
I have no desire to insult anyone,.."your" beliefs can do that for me
Evolutionist,Creationist or Other?
Ahso!;1271058 wrote: Why even offer a suggestion that evolution may be concerned with the existence of God?
You cannot suggest that an inhabitable planet doesn't exist simply because one hasn't been found yet
You cannot suggest that an inhabitable planet doesn't exist simply because one hasn't been found yet