China incline USA decline?
America now has an open society but few Americans have the Critical Thinking skills and intellectual sophistication required to maintain that status. The question becomes: "can a democracy survive in a world where technology is driving change at a very rapid pace?†Darwin informs us that if a species cannot adapt to its changing environment that species will soon become toast.
I suspect that China represents an example of how such a fact plays out. China, an authoritarian form of capitalism, is likely destined to become the dominant power in the 21st century because an authoritarian system can better adapt to a rapidly changing world. America displays a nation unable to quickly adapt to a rapidly changing world.
Karl Popper argues, in his book The Open Society and Its Enemies, that all ideology shares a common characteristic; a belief in infallibility.
The concept Popper illustrates in this book sounds much like the concept of a liberal democracy but his concept is more epistemological than political. It is based upon our imperfect comprehension of reality more than our structure of society. Such infallibility is an impossibility, which leads such ideological practitioners to use force to substantiate their views and such repression brings about a closed society.
Popper proposed that the open society is constructed on the recognition that our comprehension of reality is not perfect—there is realty beyond our comprehension and our will cannot compensate for that lack of comprehension. Even though the will of the power structure can manipulate the opinions of the citizens sooner or later reality will defeat the will. Truth does matter and success will not always override truth—truth being reality.
China incline USA decline?
China incline USA decline?
If anything technology is going to help democracy survive. Youi saw it with Obama being elected. It is no longer possible to keep people isolated from the outside world like it was in the past or dissidents isolated from each other. it's one of the main reasons politicians don't like the internet-it's harder for them to hide from public scrutiny.
America is about fifty years behind the rest of the world in developing it's political ideology and is only now having the kind of debates settled in europe after the war about social reform and the role of government. Biggest problems seems to be a christian right determined to turn the clock back and put science and technology on the back burner and a corporatist ideology that has almost become a religion-mind you I'm an outsider so not really in a position to judge
China will be one of the dominant powers but not the only one, the interesting thing will be to see if the US can get over the notion the world owes it a living and start competing economically on a level playing field. If it can't it will lose control of the ball. Monetarism has weakened it's economy-sadly ours as well-liberal economics is the way to go imo.
America is about fifty years behind the rest of the world in developing it's political ideology and is only now having the kind of debates settled in europe after the war about social reform and the role of government. Biggest problems seems to be a christian right determined to turn the clock back and put science and technology on the back burner and a corporatist ideology that has almost become a religion-mind you I'm an outsider so not really in a position to judge
China will be one of the dominant powers but not the only one, the interesting thing will be to see if the US can get over the notion the world owes it a living and start competing economically on a level playing field. If it can't it will lose control of the ball. Monetarism has weakened it's economy-sadly ours as well-liberal economics is the way to go imo.
China incline USA decline?
I'd agree with GMC, but I''d add that we really have to get away from being a consumer society and begin producing products again. How can we expect to compete with China when they make everything, and we buy it?
What we really need is a breakthrough technology like nuclear fusion or quantum teleportation.
America is crazy when it comes to inventing technology, then allowing other countries to capitalize on it. You know those little LCD screens on cell phones? We invented 'em. Guess what country makes over 90% of those worldwide... hint: It's not America.:-2
What we really need is a breakthrough technology like nuclear fusion or quantum teleportation.
America is crazy when it comes to inventing technology, then allowing other countries to capitalize on it. You know those little LCD screens on cell phones? We invented 'em. Guess what country makes over 90% of those worldwide... hint: It's not America.:-2
China incline USA decline?
Saint_;1265175 wrote: I'd agree with GMC, but I''d add that we really have to get away from being a consumer society and begin producing products again. How can we expect to compete with China when they make everything, and we buy it?
What we really need is a breakthrough technology like nuclear fusion or quantum teleportation.
America is crazy when it comes to inventing technology, then allowing other countries to capitalize on it. You know those little LCD screens on cell phones? We invented 'em. Guess what country makes over 90% of those worldwide... hint: It's not America.:-2
Take a lesson from what happened to the UK when we forgot our wealth was built on engineering innovation and making things and the bankers and accountants got control of once great companies and started making the decisions. We stopped innovating and sold everything to the highest bidder scientists and engineers have low status and learn less than accountants. they ask. Workers in a capitalist system are a valuable resource, good education for all the foundation of wealth, now workers are a resource to be used up and disposed of if not cost effective in a short term attitude that is incredibly destructive.
Think of all the once great innovative American companies started by innovators that have ended up controlled by pen pushers who don't like engineers and see research as a cost base rather than an essential component of a successful company. If it doesn't make money straight away what's the point? They ask. Yet think of all the everyday things that were discovered by someone just being curious for it's own sake.
What we really need is a breakthrough technology like nuclear fusion or quantum teleportation.
America is crazy when it comes to inventing technology, then allowing other countries to capitalize on it. You know those little LCD screens on cell phones? We invented 'em. Guess what country makes over 90% of those worldwide... hint: It's not America.:-2
Take a lesson from what happened to the UK when we forgot our wealth was built on engineering innovation and making things and the bankers and accountants got control of once great companies and started making the decisions. We stopped innovating and sold everything to the highest bidder scientists and engineers have low status and learn less than accountants. they ask. Workers in a capitalist system are a valuable resource, good education for all the foundation of wealth, now workers are a resource to be used up and disposed of if not cost effective in a short term attitude that is incredibly destructive.
Think of all the once great innovative American companies started by innovators that have ended up controlled by pen pushers who don't like engineers and see research as a cost base rather than an essential component of a successful company. If it doesn't make money straight away what's the point? They ask. Yet think of all the everyday things that were discovered by someone just being curious for it's own sake.
China incline USA decline?
gmc;1265160 wrote: Biggest problems seems to be a christian right determined to turn the clock back and put science and technology on the back burner
:rolleyes: Let's shelf the Christian-bashing agendas for a moment please as we have far bigger problems regarding America's decline. In fact, you hit on a big one regarding America's world-owes-us-a-living thing. More broadly, I think it's that we are insanely spoiled and self-centered, and so becoming flat-out decadent in a big way. The decay from within is IMO very real, and when we fall, it will be why. We're like a spoiled child, basically: they are easily upset, obnoxious as hell, don't seem happy no matter how much they get (which is already way too much), are anti-social and self-absorbed, and therefore have poor social skills....to me that all sounds more and more like a description of our society. The political correctness hissy fit thing is totally out of control, people out in public are increasingly unfriendly, thoughtless and rude as hell, they complain or worry if they have (eg) a computer or cell phone or some other electronic doo-dad which isn't the latest/greatest, all the while being glued to them 24/7, and similar gross sillinesses which are so extreme they're absurd. Yet nobody blinks an eye.
We are also extremely over-stimulated from all this, which is another big problem. In essence, we are like a junkie. But instead of drugs, it's material things, or more to the point, the quick fix and immediate gratification thing that we're "high" on. Kid is way out of control? It couldn't be that they're spoiled and/or clamouring for attention, so don't give them more quality time or (gasp) discipline them; that's too unpleasant and take too much effort. Just throw them another video game or conclude they have ADD or some other "condition" and shove some happy pills down their throat.
Again, it gets back to simply being way too spoiled. First it made us physically lazy; but more profoundly now, it has made us mentally/emotionally lazy. In generations gone by, we had not just parents but their kids working hard to help the family just to make ends meet, eg working in the fields etc or having to even just help with the house/family in general (which was a lot more work in days gone by) - the benefit being it forced them to be much more of a FAMILY - ie focused on the family unit as a whole vs themselves.
Now much of that need is gone and we've become very isolated; technology is largely responsible. It started with people driving to work solo and spacing out on TV, and has progressed (or should I say digressed) to not even watching the same shows or in the same room, then with the computer age, kids often having their own computer and/or TV and video games (or even phones, good grief), ad nauseum - all which are generally not only isolating but demand nothing from a child's imagination or much in terms of mental abilities - which is practically all kids from older generations had. Small wonder, then, that the arts are in such pathetic shape. Further, kids are so often being shuffled off to some highly organized sport or dance classes/etc, whereas they used to just go out back and play - this and "home schooling" have taken away the need for kids to develop social, organizational, and problem-solving skills which they used to have to do out of necessity.
PS I am not trying to give some rose-colored nostalic "everything was better in the old days" speech or say it's anyone's fault per se; just noting why I think our society/country, like all those before it, has a rise, peak, and fall, and is now in that fall - ie a great social decline that it will be our downfall. The saddest part is most don't even seem to be able to step back and see/admit it.
:rolleyes: Let's shelf the Christian-bashing agendas for a moment please as we have far bigger problems regarding America's decline. In fact, you hit on a big one regarding America's world-owes-us-a-living thing. More broadly, I think it's that we are insanely spoiled and self-centered, and so becoming flat-out decadent in a big way. The decay from within is IMO very real, and when we fall, it will be why. We're like a spoiled child, basically: they are easily upset, obnoxious as hell, don't seem happy no matter how much they get (which is already way too much), are anti-social and self-absorbed, and therefore have poor social skills....to me that all sounds more and more like a description of our society. The political correctness hissy fit thing is totally out of control, people out in public are increasingly unfriendly, thoughtless and rude as hell, they complain or worry if they have (eg) a computer or cell phone or some other electronic doo-dad which isn't the latest/greatest, all the while being glued to them 24/7, and similar gross sillinesses which are so extreme they're absurd. Yet nobody blinks an eye.
We are also extremely over-stimulated from all this, which is another big problem. In essence, we are like a junkie. But instead of drugs, it's material things, or more to the point, the quick fix and immediate gratification thing that we're "high" on. Kid is way out of control? It couldn't be that they're spoiled and/or clamouring for attention, so don't give them more quality time or (gasp) discipline them; that's too unpleasant and take too much effort. Just throw them another video game or conclude they have ADD or some other "condition" and shove some happy pills down their throat.
Again, it gets back to simply being way too spoiled. First it made us physically lazy; but more profoundly now, it has made us mentally/emotionally lazy. In generations gone by, we had not just parents but their kids working hard to help the family just to make ends meet, eg working in the fields etc or having to even just help with the house/family in general (which was a lot more work in days gone by) - the benefit being it forced them to be much more of a FAMILY - ie focused on the family unit as a whole vs themselves.
Now much of that need is gone and we've become very isolated; technology is largely responsible. It started with people driving to work solo and spacing out on TV, and has progressed (or should I say digressed) to not even watching the same shows or in the same room, then with the computer age, kids often having their own computer and/or TV and video games (or even phones, good grief), ad nauseum - all which are generally not only isolating but demand nothing from a child's imagination or much in terms of mental abilities - which is practically all kids from older generations had. Small wonder, then, that the arts are in such pathetic shape. Further, kids are so often being shuffled off to some highly organized sport or dance classes/etc, whereas they used to just go out back and play - this and "home schooling" have taken away the need for kids to develop social, organizational, and problem-solving skills which they used to have to do out of necessity.
PS I am not trying to give some rose-colored nostalic "everything was better in the old days" speech or say it's anyone's fault per se; just noting why I think our society/country, like all those before it, has a rise, peak, and fall, and is now in that fall - ie a great social decline that it will be our downfall. The saddest part is most don't even seem to be able to step back and see/admit it.
China incline USA decline?
gmc;1265229 wrote:
Think of all the once great innovative American companies started by innovators that have ended up controlled by pen pushers who don't like engineers and see research as a cost base rather than an essential component of a successful company. If it doesn't make money straight away what's the point? They ask. Yet think of all the everyday things that were discovered by someone just being curious for it's own sake.
Don't even get me started on corporate America :-5 Short-sighted if not flat-out incompetent management is the norm, it seems.
Think of all the once great innovative American companies started by innovators that have ended up controlled by pen pushers who don't like engineers and see research as a cost base rather than an essential component of a successful company. If it doesn't make money straight away what's the point? They ask. Yet think of all the everyday things that were discovered by someone just being curious for it's own sake.
Don't even get me started on corporate America :-5 Short-sighted if not flat-out incompetent management is the norm, it seems.
China incline USA decline?
joey2000;1270357 wrote: Don't even get me started on corporate America :-5 Short-sighted if not flat-out incompetent management is the norm, it seems.
IMO the real rot set in with the wide scale adoption of monetarism in the west. We had that mad cow thatcher and her britain can survive on a service economy-servicing what? It forgets the fundamentals of capitalism that real wealth in things that are grown or made and money is merely a medium of exchange. You can control the money all you like and even create it out of nothing (see recent banking crisis) but it has no existence without something physical0OK intellectual property comes in to it as well but that is only worth anything if you can sell it.
The crash in the thirties had the same basic cause as the present one-money was being created out of nothing.
In the olden days druids would cut open chickens and look at the entrails attempting to divine the future and everybody stood around saying that's really clever we should listen to these guys now economists do the same with spreadsheets and people stand around saying that's really clever we must pay these guys massive bonuses :-5:-5
IMO the real rot set in with the wide scale adoption of monetarism in the west. We had that mad cow thatcher and her britain can survive on a service economy-servicing what? It forgets the fundamentals of capitalism that real wealth in things that are grown or made and money is merely a medium of exchange. You can control the money all you like and even create it out of nothing (see recent banking crisis) but it has no existence without something physical0OK intellectual property comes in to it as well but that is only worth anything if you can sell it.
The crash in the thirties had the same basic cause as the present one-money was being created out of nothing.
In the olden days druids would cut open chickens and look at the entrails attempting to divine the future and everybody stood around saying that's really clever we should listen to these guys now economists do the same with spreadsheets and people stand around saying that's really clever we must pay these guys massive bonuses :-5:-5