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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Christian and Muslim. Inequality OUT. World piece IN.

Oversimplification? Perhaps. Think about it.



All worthy theologies and legal philosophies tie righteousness to equality. Do unto others or some other reciprocity law. Christianity and Islam are retarding humanities spiritual growth with their homophobic and misogynous policies that are guaranteed to produce inequality and thus unrighteousness.

If Christians and Muslims cannot give their own people equality, it obviously means that Christians and Muslims are already denigrating and discriminating against better than half the members of all the other religions and non-believers. This prevents mutual respect and rapprochement of the world’s religions and makes world peace impossible?

War begins with inequality and that is what Christianity and Islam are all about at present. Those two major religions cannot co-exist with their policies of discrimination and inequality. Equality is the corner stone of justice and both Christianity and Islam do not grant this most fundamental of all legal tenets.

I believe that if we could change Christian and Muslim attitudes on equality, then world piece would soon follow. Christians and Muslims are not righteous people as long as they do not grant equality to all.

Should Governments be pushing all religions to grant equality to all and end their institutionalized homophobic and misogynous policies?

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DL
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Post by FourPart »

The ironic thing is that Jesus is also a Prophet of Islam, which means that either Islamics are Christians or Christians are Islamic.
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Post by gmc »

FourPart;1481682 wrote: The ironic thing is that Jesus is also a Prophet of Islam, which means that either Islamics are Christians or Christians are Islamic.


Muslms contend jesus was not the son of god. To each the others' view of jesus is blasphemy to rational people it's not worth killing over.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481682 wrote: The ironic thing is that Jesus is also a Prophet of Islam, which means that either Islamics are Christians or Christians are Islamic.


I hear you but Islam and Christianity do not see Jesus the same way. An Islamic prophet is not a Christian messiah and scapegoat.

In a sense, since substitutionary atonement or punishment is such a vile and immoral practice that Islam, in this case, is showing better morals than Christians.

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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

gmc;1481696 wrote: Muslms contend jesus was not the son of god. To each the others' view of jesus is blasphemy to rational people it's not worth killing over.


I agree but what does rationality, intelligence, logic and reason as well as morals have to do with idol worshiping Christians and Muslims?

Idol worshiping fools will follow their idol to hell if they think it will get them into heaven.

Idol worshipers are putting their minds into dissonance mode the moment they become idol worshipers.

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Post by FourPart »

Both Muslims & Christians will protest that they do not use idols, but I constest that claim. After all, what is the Crucifix - especially with the figure of Christ upon it, if not an idol? Then there is Islam. With Shia there is the Prayer Stone they use. Then there are the pillars in Mecca which Muslims ritualistically stone, as being icons of Satan. Even Judaism uses the Star of David - yet none of these are admitted as being idols.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481733 wrote: Both Muslims & Christians will protest that they do not use idols, but I constest that claim. After all, what is the Crucifix - especially with the figure of Christ upon it, if not an idol? Then there is Islam. With Shia there is the Prayer Stone they use. Then there are the pillars in Mecca which Muslims ritualistically stone, as being icons of Satan. Even Judaism uses the Star of David - yet none of these are admitted as being idols.


Intellectually they will tell us that they only use those things for focus but that does not take away the fact that the moment they say the have a God or name it, it becomes an idol.

They may take the bible or Qur'an pages and past them over their golden calves but the shape beneath cannot be hidden.

Then again, who can trust what is said by those who believe in all kinds of supernatural entities who never ever show themselves.

Best to ignore and pity such delusional people and the world would it their delusions were not so dangerous.

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Post by FourPart »

How is it possible to ignore such atrocities. Is there an Ostrich God?
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481739 wrote: How is it possible to ignore such atrocities. Is there an Ostrich God?


They are all Ostrich God as no God has even deemed us worthy to address personally or as a species.

And don't ask a Christian for a sign because he will tell you that only heathen unbelievers ask for proof.

:-5:-5

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Post by FourPart »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481740 wrote: They are all Ostrich God as no God has even deemed us worthy to address personally or as a species.

And don't as a Christian for a sign because he will tell you that only heathen unbelievers ask for proof.

:-5:-5

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That St Thomas was such a Heathen Unbeliever.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481745 wrote: That St Thomas was such a Heathen Unbeliever.


As compared to Christian idol worshipers, all that heathen un-believers are, are God seekers which is what Gnostic Christian Jesus said we should all perpetually be.

God in this case defined as the best rules and laws to live life by.

You will note that Christians stopped looking a long time ago and their books still hold all kinds of draconian laws that no civilized community would ever implement.

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

FourPart;1481733 wrote: Both Muslims & Christians will protest that they do not use idols, but I constest that claim. After all, what is the Crucifix - especially with the figure of Christ upon it, if not an idol? Then there is Islam. With Shia there is the Prayer Stone they use. Then there are the pillars in Mecca which Muslims ritualistically stone, as being icons of Satan. Even Judaism uses the Star of David - yet none of these are admitted as being idols.


Jews Don't Pray to the Star of David! It's just a symbol of pride worn or displayed. Therefore, it is not an idol & you are Wrong!

Not used as focus or focal point either. Geesh, talk about something you know!
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Post by gmc »

Gnostic Christian Bishop Currently Offline

I agree but what does rationality, intelligence, logic and reason as well as morals have to do with idol worshiping Christians and Muslims?


You know a lot less about religion than you think you do don't you.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

gmc;1481798 wrote: Gnostic Christian Bishop Currently Offline



You know a lot less about religion than you think you do don't you.


:-2



No argument. And you have refused to educate me by ignoring the question so perhaps you know even less.

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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

AnneBoleyn;1481794 wrote: Jews Don't Pray to the Star of David! It's just a symbol of pride worn or displayed. Therefore, it is not an idol & you are Wrong!

Not used as focus or focal point either. Geesh, talk about something you know!


Rome made sure they transferred the main Jewish menorah to Rome after destroying the Jewish temple so I think that it was a focal point of worship. Almost as good as a golden calf. So from that POV, you might be wrong. But it is hard to separate custom and culture from a peoples religion. Hard to say where exactly religion fits into tradition and how important their menorah was to their religious system.



Would you say that any who pray to a God are idol worshipers?

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Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481841 wrote: Rome made sure they transferred the main Jewish menorah to Rome after destroying the Jewish temple so I think that it was a focal point of worship. Almost as good as a golden calf. So from that POV, you might be wrong. But it is hard to separate custom and culture from a peoples religion. Hard to say where exactly religion fits into tradition and how important their menorah was to their religious system.



Would you say that any who pray to a God are idol worshipers?

Regards

DL


Depends if there's any images/symbols/effigies of "God", I would say.
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Post by FourPart »

Such as the big one in the Vatican.
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Post by AnneBoleyn »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481841 wrote: Rome made sure they transferred the main Jewish menorah to Rome after destroying the Jewish temple so I think that it was a focal point of worship. Almost as good as a golden calf. So from that POV, you might be wrong. But it is hard to separate custom and culture from a peoples religion. Hard to say where exactly religion fits into tradition and how important their menorah was to their religious system.



Would you say that any who pray to a God are idol worshipers?

Regards

DL


You know nothing of Judaism DL, so don't waste your time thinking about it. Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. Rome was punishing the Jews by that act, which does not prove your point. They were merely asserting their power, like seizing the other side's flags as a sign of victory over their enemy. Find a synagogue near you and politely ask a rabbi.

No, I do not think those who pray to god are idol worshipers, unless you are re-writing the 10 Commandments. An idol is a physical thing.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Smaug;1481857 wrote: Depends if there's any images/symbols/effigies of "God", I would say.


If someone is praying, they must think an ear is out there listening.

If not, they would be just talking or praying to nothing.

I do not think most pray to nothing.

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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481861 wrote: Such as the big one in the Vatican.


He is the same as his God.



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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

AnneBoleyn;1481932 wrote: You know nothing of Judaism DL, so don't waste your time thinking about it. Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. Rome was punishing the Jews by that act, which does not prove your point. They were merely asserting their power, like seizing the other side's flags as a sign of victory over their enemy. Find a synagogue near you and politely ask a rabbi.

No, I do not think those who pray to god are idol worshipers, unless you are re-writing the 10 Commandments. An idol is a physical thing.


Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating.

It happens that Gnostic Christians have always been close in theology.

Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."



If Jews do not idolize their God then what word would you use to describe God if not their idol?

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Post by FourPart »

By rights to idolise someone means to make a graven image of them & to worship the image - in the same way as Christians focus on the crucifix, with or without the image of Jesus hanging from it. Also, as I understand it, the only religion to specifically prohibit all forms of secular imagry is Amish. They, at least, are consistent with their belief & are of no problem to anyone else.
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Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1481992 wrote: Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating.

It happens that Gnostic Christians have always been close in theology.

Bill Moyers Journal . Watch & Listen | PBS

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about literal reading.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."



If Jews do not idolize their God then what word would you use to describe God if not their idol?

Regards

DL


I don't think calling someone a bitch is appropriate, tasteful or gentlemanly. Kindly refrain from abusive language, for I generally find that those that confuse eloquence and vulgarity have no class. That was definitely a vulgar insult, and breaks site rules.

I think an apology to AnneBoleyn is in order, GCB.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1481999 wrote: By rights to idolise someone means to make a graven image of them & to worship the image - in the same way as Christians focus on the crucifix, with or without the image of Jesus hanging from it. Also, as I understand it, the only religion to specifically prohibit all forms of secular imagry is Amish. They, at least, are consistent with their belief & are of no problem to anyone else.


Not to split hairs but you add a lot to Webster.

Full Definition of IDOLIZE

transitive verb



: to worship as a god; broadly : to love or admire to excess

Nothing there about what you said.

All who pray to a God are idolizing him, her or it.

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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Smaug;1482002 wrote: I don't think calling someone a bitch is appropriate, tasteful or gentlemanly. Kindly refrain from abusive language, for I generally find that those that confuse eloquence and vulgarity have no class. That was definitely a vulgar insult, and breaks site rules.

I think an apology to AnneBoleyn is in order, GCB.


Reciprocity is fair play.

When I get her's for her Anti-Semite referrence then she can have mine.

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Post by AnneBoleyn »

"Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating."

I've had enough of you. Now you can add sexist to your lack-luster resume.

Speculating about Jews and their practices have never led to a happy road for my people. Continue in your ignorance & speculations.
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Post by G#Gill »

As far as I can see the word bitch is correct when referring to a female dog. When 'bitch' is used to address a female human being, then it becomes derogatory and rather insulting.





Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post

[You know nothing of Judaism DL, so don't waste your time thinking about it. Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. Rome was punishing the Jews by that act, which does not prove your point. They were merely asserting their power, like seizing the other side's flags as a sign of victory over their enemy. Find a synagogue near you and politely ask a rabbi.

No, I do not think those who pray to god are idol worshipers, unless you are re-writing the 10 Commandments. An idol is a physical thing.]



Quote from Gnostic Christian Bishop [Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating.]



Not sure what Gnostic Christian Bishop was referring to over 'Ease up with the names' - what names ? I thought AB was being perfectly polite, which quite frankly is more than you deserve when you call her a 'bitch'.

I'm surprised you have not been reported yet, for using insulting words to another member ! Maybe that could still happen.

With regard to the title of this thread. What's with the 'World piece IN' bit - which piece were you referring to ?
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Post by FourPart »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482008 wrote: Not to split hairs but you add a lot to Webster.

Full Definition of IDOLIZE

transitive verb



: to worship as a god; broadly : to love or admire to excess

Nothing there about what you said.

All who pray to a God are idolizing him, her or it.

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DL
idolize



/ˈaɪdəˌlaɪz/



verb 1. (transitive) to admire or revere greatly



2. (transitive) to worship as an idol



3. (intransitive) to worship idols



(Dictionary.com)

No mention of Gods in that definition whatsoever.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

G#Gill;1482043 wrote: As far as I can see the word bitch is correct when referring to a female dog. When 'bitch' is used to address a female human being, then it becomes derogatory and rather insulting.





Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post

[You know nothing of Judaism DL, so don't waste your time thinking about it. Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. Rome was punishing the Jews by that act, which does not prove your point. They were merely asserting their power, like seizing the other side's flags as a sign of victory over their enemy. Find a synagogue near you and politely ask a rabbi.

No, I do not think those who pray to god are idol worshipers, unless you are re-writing the 10 Commandments. An idol is a physical thing.]



Quote from Gnostic Christian Bishop [Ease up with the names, bitch. I was speculating.]



Not sure what Gnostic Christian Bishop was referring to over 'Ease up with the names' - what names ? I thought AB was being perfectly polite, which quite frankly is more than you deserve when you call her a 'bitch'.

I'm surprised you have not been reported yet, for using insulting words to another member ! Maybe that could still happen.

With regard to the title of this thread. What's with the 'World piece IN' bit - which piece were you referring to ?


Let me bring two words to your attention.

Anti-Semite.

Peace.

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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

FourPart;1482045 wrote: idolize



/ˈaɪdəˌlaɪz/



verb 1. (transitive) to admire or revere greatly



2. (transitive) to worship as an idol



3. (intransitive) to worship idols



(Dictionary.com)

No mention of Gods in that definition whatsoever.


Battling dictionaries.

I like how this idol worshiper defines God and idol worshiping.



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Post by G#Gill »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482055 wrote: Let me bring two words to your attention.

Anti-Semite.

Peace.

Regards

DL




You obviously didn't read AnneBoleyn's post properly, GCB - Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. . As you will see AB made no accusations, she just said she MIGHT THINK, OK ? You really should be more careful reading peoples' posts !
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

G#Gill;1482097 wrote: You obviously didn't read AnneBoleyn's post properly, GCB - Any more mistakes and I might think you're an Anti-Semite. . As you will see AB made no accusations, she just said she MIGHT THINK, OK ? You really should be more careful reading peoples' posts !


I know exactly what she wrote.

You go ahead and give her points for political correctness. I will not.

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Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482109 wrote: I know exactly what she wrote.

You go ahead and give her points for political correctness. I will not.

Regards

DL


Actually, AnneBoleyn made a statement of how she felt about your post, and tactfully "warned you off" from making further comment about Jewish symbols.

By way of return, you called her a bitch. The saying is;"Manners Maketh Man", so man-up and apologize to the Lady!

I don't like to see foul language on a public forum , I find your insult to AnneBoleyn utterly unacceptable, thus I warn you that unless a PUBLIC apology is seen (you insulted her PUBLICLY) without any of this "reciprocity" swerving, I'll report your post.

The choice is yours.
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Post by G#Gill »

Oops..........................

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Post by Betty Boop »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482009 wrote: Reciprocity is fair play.

When I get her's for her Anti-Semite referrence then she can have mine.

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DL


Ann implied she may end up 'thinking' you are anti semite, you responded by actually calling her a bitch.

Can you not see a difference there?
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Post by Ahso! »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482109 wrote: I know exactly what she wrote.

You go ahead and give her points for political correctness. I will not.

Regards

DLJust admit you misunderstood her post and move on. That shouldn't be that difficult to do.
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Post by Smaug »

Ahso!;1482225 wrote: Just admit you misunderstood her post and move on. That shouldn't be that difficult to do.


And apologize for calling her a bitch! THATS the bit I find gratuitous and unnecessary.

We will see how much of a gentleman he is....
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Betty Boop;1482214 wrote: Ann implied she may end up 'thinking' you are anti semite, you responded by actually calling her a bitch.

Can you not see a difference there?


Yes. She is hypocritically politically correct and made an inference whereas I am right up front.

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Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482265 wrote: Yes. She is hypocritically politically correct and made an inference whereas I am right up front.

Regards

DL


You're still not addressing the issue, GCB. Your post was gratuitous insomuch as you called AB a bitch!You continue to "swerve" the issue. I would suggest that you show some manners and good grace by swallowing that all-too overblown ego and apologise!
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Post by Smaug »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482265 wrote: Yes. She is hypocritically politically correct and made an inference whereas I am right up front.

Regards

DL


Don't forget rude and arrogant!
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Post by G#Gill »

I suppose Americans in general cannot see how insulting 'bitch' is when used in addressing a woman, as that word seems to be used quite frequently in general conversation in the U.S. and even calling their own girlfriends/wives 'bitch'. A case of dumbing down maybe. But in the UK, to call a woman a 'bitch' is very insulting and derogatory.

As, I believe, GCB is American I suppose we should not expect him to recognise how insulting he has been, although I have to say that fortunately not all Americans are so arrogant !
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Post by LarsMac »

G#Gill;1482332 wrote: I suppose Americans in general cannot see how insulting 'bitch' is when used in addressing a woman, as that word seems to be used quite frequently in general conversation in the U.S. and even calling their own girlfriends/wives 'bitch'. A case of dumbing down maybe. But in the UK, to call a woman a 'bitch' is very insulting and derogatory.

As, I believe, GCB is American I suppose we should not expect him to recognise how insulting he has been, although I have to say that fortunately not all Americans are so arrogant !


If I called my wife a bitch, I doubt that I would live long enough to regret it.

The man knew exactly what he was saying, whether he is American or not.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Gnostic Christian Bishop;1482055 wrote: Let me bring two words to your attention.

Anti-Semite.

Peace.

Regards

DL


Is English your second language?

I only as because saying that if you continue down this line I might start to consider you an anti-semite (paraphrased I know) is nowhere near accusing you of being one and would not be commensurate with calling a woman a bitch even if it was.

Read the terms of service - rule 1, be civil.

Calling a woman a bitch is nowhere near being civil and your "justification" nowhere near justifies it.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

Karen Armstrong in her book "The Great Transformation has shown that all of the worlds great fiaths were founded on the principals of justice and Compassion. In heer book "The Fields of B;lppd" has shown that the kilings in the name ofn the name of God, Allah have little to do with religion and everything to do with power and money. To the point about idolatry many Christians have turned the Bible into an object of idoletry. They make a very humn writting The Bible into the Word of God which it is not. The Word of God rightly belongs only to the Risen One and not a book.
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1482887 wrote: Karen Armstrong in her book "The Great Transformation has shown that all of the worlds great fiaths were founded on the principals of justice and Compassion. In heer book "The Fields of B;lppd" has shown that the kilings in the name ofn the name of God, Allah have little to do with religion and everything to do with power and money. To the point about idolatry many Christians have turned the Bible into an object of idoletry. They make a very humn writting The Bible into the Word of God which it is not. The Word of God rightly belongs only to the Risen One and not a book.


What makes your type of idol worship better than the usual Christian idol worship?

Dis Jesus not say to seek God?

He never said, seek me.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Your Christ mind is not your Fathers. They abide in you.

They are not you regardless of how many you want in you.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

I'm really sure of the point. It seems that you are putting or trying to put your thoughts into my head and mouth. Jesus was very much a human being. However in this human being we see the true manifestation of the nature of God. This in no way makes Jesus God. You are correct he often spoke of his father. Jesus was and is not God though many have tried to assert that. He was a God presence. Since we see in this Jesus the true nature of God manifest my purpose is to follow in his footsteps. No dogma and no doctrine are needed. My trust is in the Divine that I saw in this Jesus. Ir ia interesting that this very low class man should b remembered some 2200 years after his death. He must have been one incredible human being. We do not understand the Easter experience and do not have the language to deal with it. Somehow people were convinced and still are that his is still with us. ???????
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I would like to add that I try to live my Christian life. I do not expect or want others to believe or think like me. We must each follow our own path whether it be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu etc. I ave even given up the use of the word pagan since I find it judgemental. I will leave that up to God, Allah, etc..
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1483230 wrote: I'm really sure of the point. It seems that you are putting or trying to put your thoughts into my head and mouth. Jesus was very much a human being. However in this human being we see the true manifestation of the nature of God. This in no way makes Jesus God. You are correct he often spoke of his father. Jesus was and is not God though many have tried to assert that. He was a God presence. Since we see in this Jesus the true nature of God manifest my purpose is to follow in his footsteps. No dogma and no doctrine are needed. My trust is in the Divine that I saw in this Jesus. Ir ia interesting that this very low class man should b remembered some 2200 years after his death. He must have been one incredible human being. We do not understand the Easter experience and do not have the language to deal with it. Somehow people were convinced and still are that his is still with us. ???????


"He was a God presence."

That is what an archetypal good man is all about.

Jesus is just a type as far as Gnostic Christians are concerned. To give his words more Godliness is just our seeking an idol.



Jesus wanted to be a hero but did not have what it takes. If he lived at all, he would have been the Nazarene.



Regards

DL
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Post by Gnostic Christian Bishop »

Ted;1483231 wrote: I would like to add that I try to live my Christian life. I do not expect or want others to believe or think like me. We must each follow our own path whether it be Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu etc. I ave even given up the use of the word pagan since I find it judgemental. I will leave that up to God, Allah, etc..


To be living a good Christian life, one would have to ignore many of the moral tenets of the bible God and Christianity.

Most Christians are not anywhere near as immoral as their God.

Regards

DL
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Post by Ted »

That certainly is a point of view. But you are judging

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