end time prophecy and the middle east today

Discuss Prophecies and Prophets. From the Ancients to Modern Day Soothsayers.
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

has anyone come up with something which may explain what the middle east is coming to? i don't mean bible prophecy, but the relationships between the new conditions that seem to be affecting the middle eastern political situation and whether it is having any global repercussions on the political front. it seems to me that some behind the scenes political manuevering seems to keep the middle east in a tumultuous condition. ever since the attempts to bring peace into the region back in the mid-eighties, it always seems some group or other interferes with the effort and additional unrest flares up. no matter what solution is proposed, it always gets derailed by something that happens in another area of the middle east. could this be a continuous plannned effort by someone seeking to exploit the problems? anyone have any thoughts on this matter? i'd be interested in your opinions. and please, don't use bible qoutes, they just confuse the issue. i'd like real opinions, not imaginary ones.:-5 :-5 :lips: :lips:
RedGlitter
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by RedGlitter »

All I can say is that I think the middle east is its own tumultous condition and brings it on itself.
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telaquapacky
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by telaquapacky »

There's a good article in a recent news mag I read, an interview with a prominent Egyptian ( the magazine is not within reach now, but I'll give the reference when I can).

One of the things this man said that I thought was most insightful and intriguing, was that while the west is trying to foster democracy in the Arab countries, their rulers are threatened by it. Since 9-11 they have allowed 9-11 and America's over-reaction to it foment radical Islam and terrorism, because if democracy takes hold, they'll lose their power. He believes there is a silent majority of moderate Muslims who want peace and democracy, and liberal reforms- particularly with regards to the treatment of women. Better treatment of women always translates into better education and standards of living.

The other thing he said is what we all know. Poverty and frustration seems to feed radical Islam. Their biggest hatred against the west has to do with our presence in their "holy land" and the presence of the nation of Israel. To the radicals, we are an alliance of infidels.

The writer also pointed up that there were two kinds of Islam in those countries- one that applies to the rich, and another entirely different one that applies to the poor. The rich have secret get-aways where they can live in a comparitively sensuous, world-loving western style; whereas the poor have a deeply devout but bitter, hardscrabble existence that makes them sick of the world and long desperately for a heavenly reward.
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telaquapacky
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by telaquapacky »

Diuretic wrote: Sounds like mediaeval Christian Europe. Religion has always been useful in keeping the privileged in the manner to which they have become accustomed.Indeed! Although the faith of the One who had no place to lay His head was obviously never intended to be used that way.
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telaquapacky
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by telaquapacky »

Diuretic wrote: My faint memory of the texts indicates you're probably right. But I'm repeating myself I suppose. Religion is a useful tool for oppresion.Or, oppression is a useful tool for religion, as the case may be!
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telaquapacky
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by telaquapacky »

Diuretic wrote: But religion is a more subtle tool to use for oppressive purposes. While pure political oppression is a mailed fist in a steel glove, religion provides a velvet covering.Speaking of "subtle," and "velvet covering," it is so subtle that religious oppressors often aren't aware that they are oppressing, but are well-meaning "do-gooders" who think they are enforcing their own religious ideas on others for their own good.

To be fair, though, it should be admitted that secular humanist "do-gooders" can fall into the same trap of enforcing their own philosophy on others, believing it's for their own good. Consider all the failed atheist social experiments in history- there have been some of those too, although perhaps less numerous or well-known.
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Ted
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by Ted »

The middle east has throughout history been in the terrible location where all transportation routes seem to cross. It has always been in this vital location and consequently always been the desired area to control. Lebanon and Israel are simply in the wrong location.

In a way today it is still a central and vital area; Islam, Judaism and Christianity. It is the holy land for all three great faiths. Add to that the fact that within this area and as far west as Iran there is a great deal of oil on which the world's major industrial nations depend for their prosperity.

And yes, religion has often been used by unscrupulous people who seek to control others and gain in their own personal power. This is a misuse of a vital part of life, every bit as much as drug addiction results from the misuse of important drugs that could have great medical value.

Jesus personal battle was against oppression and collaboration of the temple authorities with the Roman empire. He was against both political and social as well as religious oppression which was and still is today, a major problem in the world.

Shalom

Ted:-6
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

while i adree with some of what you say, the real problem seems, to me, to be one in which financial gain, and the power that goes with it, cannot be seprated under the conditions in which the middle east finds itself. each of the individual groups is determined to bring its own brand of freedom to the region. iran wants to have nukes, saudis want to keep the oil money flowing, the hezbollah wants to wipe israel off the map and gets its money from iran and syria, and probably saudi arabia, and uses it to buy itsinfluence, egypt wants to be part and parcel of the arab pwer structure, but is fearful they won't be allowed since they made peace with israel, the hamas wants everything that was once the palestinian homeland but can't think in terms other than force and violence. the whole region thinks in terms of religion, and wants the entire region to be islamic. the israelis will not be pushed out, and if pushed too hard will use force. america is incapable of having any useful position in the region due to the anger and distrust by the arab nations because of the support of israel. western europe isn't willing to commit itself to hardly anything because it too, wants the oil. so what is the solution? to walk away, invade with overwhelming force, (bush thinks a dozen men is overwhelming), or to get everyone to the table? in reality, none of these are possible. the reason is simple. to much money is being made, and minor wars are big money. major wars are not worth much due to the possibility of total destruction. so is a solutioin possible, or is all-out war without limits next?:-4 :-4
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Galbally
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by Galbally »

I recently read a very good book on the history of Jerusalem, and when you look in the long term of the history of what we call "The Holy Land", it becomes apparent that specific little part of the world has been a central idealized place contested between 2 great world civilizations Islam and Christendom for 1400 years, and of course also the original home of the Jewish faith, and they now control it. All within a couple of hundred yards you have the Temple Mount, the Dome of the Rock, The Al Asqa Mosque, the Wailing Wall, which is the only surviving segment of the Temple of Solomon (specifically the third Temple built by herod and destroyed by the Romans in 79 AD) which is now the Temple Mount, the hill of Calvary or Golgotha, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Mount of Olives, the Garden of Gesemene, it goes on and on. Will it ever cease to be a bone of contention, I doubt it, religions have a way of being mutually exclusive in their need to deny the truth of others to assert their own, so I don't see it ever not being the place it is. But is there a better way for a rational politcal solution that allows all of the three faiths to share this sacred area, certainly, but it will take a big outbreak of tolerance and rationalism, which is something in short suppy at the minute.
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charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

Galbally wrote: I recently read a very good book on the history of Jerusalem, and when you look in the long term of the history of what we call "The Holy Land", it becomes apparent that specific little part of the world has been a central idealized place contested between 2 great world civilizations Islam and Christendom for 1400 years, and of course also the original home of the Jewish faith, and they now control it. All within a couple of hundred yards you have the Temple Mount, the Dome of the Rock, The Al Asqa Mosque, the Wailing Wall, which is the only surviving segment of the Temple of Solomon (specifically the third Temple built by herod and destroyed by the Romans in 79 AD) which is now the Temple Mount, the hill of Calvary or Golgotha, the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, the Mount of Olives, the Garden of Gesemene, it goes on and on. Will it ever cease to be a bone of contention, I doubt it, religions have a way of being mutually exclusive in their need to deny the truth of others to assert their own, so I don't see it ever not being the place it is. But is there a better way for a rational politcal solution that allows all of the three faiths to share this sacred area, certainly, but it will take a big outbreak of tolerance and rationalism, which is something in short suppy at the minute.


much of what you've said is right, but remember, the strife in the region goes back to 3000 bc. it's a matter of control. religion is now, and has been in the past, a means of establishing it. even today, the jews, the muslims, the eastern orthodox, roman catholics, want to have more influence over the destiny of the region. unfortunately, no outsiders can get all parties to talkj out their differences and come up with a viable, workable solution. oneor more parties always seems to want something none of the others will allow. first the religions cannot trust any other due to strife over the centuries, second the different countries all want to be in a more advantageous position by supporting one or another side, while trying to limit the rest to more minor roles in the process. the only possibility is for all parties to agree on at least one thing and build on it, but as it is no one seems willing to come to a single point of non-dispute. hence, the abscence of that one point of agreement allows each opinion to be denied by one or more parties and prevents any kind of political agreement which would work, or upon which the various parties could build on. it would be so much easier if , for once, a single droup of negotiators dould be sent into a locked room and told not to come out until they had agreed upon one, and only one point. then they would have something upon which to build. unfortunately, it may come to all-out war before such a meeting could occur.:( :-4 :-4
acousticide
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by acousticide »

I believe it all began with Isaac and Ismael, God said he would put emnity between the two. The arabs and jews have been fighting it out since, as to which son was the true heir of Abraham.

Money and wealth is not the answer, except for some of the rich sheiks. Power to control the lives of others and keep them in the dark is.

Speaking of dark, has anyone else noticed that dark brown sugar is not really dark anymore?
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

acousticide;505874 wrote: I believe it all began with Isaac and Ismael, God said he would put emnity between the two. The arabs and jews have been fighting it out since, as to which son was the true heir of Abraham.

Money and wealth is not the answer, except for some of the rich sheiks. Power to control the lives of others and keep them in the dark is.

Speaking of dark, has anyone else noticed that dark brown sugar is not really dark anymore?


true heir? both are his heirs, and as such are his true heirs. unfortunately, the enmity was not the result of either isaac or ishmael, but between sarah and her handmaiden. sarah gave her handmaiden to give abraham an heir since she was childless. but when the handmaidedn was pregnant, she proved to be a haughty individual who looked down on sarah for her inability to bear a child.

that is the story we are told basd on what the book of genesis relates. it isn't necessarily an accurate portrayal of the reality of the time since a handmaiden was little more than a slave. she would have been punished for even intimating something as vitriolic as being haughty towards her owner, sarah.

punishment may have been anything from a beating to an execution. in the matter presented, sarah would have insisted she be executed after the child was born to eliminate any and all pretensions on the handmaids importance but not the child's.

god's promise to each was identical, to make each a great people of 12 tribes each. that was fulfilled for each. where the problem came from was not the one of heirship, but of ownership. the israelites came into the promised land to own it. the ishmaelites were in the land, but as nomads and they resented the israelites coming in and taking the land to themselves and preventing the ishmaelites from existing as nomads in the same land. they were forced from the lands they had occupied for centuries and were forced into the less hospitable desert regions to the south and east.

mohammed sought to change that after the israelites were forced out of the region by the babylonians by using the enmity between them, the jews and nomadic tribes, to occupy those land which were no longer occupied by any sizable groups of jews through the same mechanism that the christian church used to conquer the roman empire. the establishment of islam and it's forcible installation as a religion beginninbg in the seventh century a.d. he was following the same tactic as that which christianity was still following in europe at the same time.

while the babylonian exile began in the sixth cenury bce, it's effects were still being felt over a thousand years later. and is still being felt today.

the twelve tribes of ishmaelites are the now well established arab states, while only two of the original twelve tribes of the israelites are in the new state of israel.

this will change shortly as more of the twelve tribes are invited back. and that will happen within a few short years.:lips: :driving: :-4
Tigerlily
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by Tigerlily »

Who was it said that religion is the opium of the masses? I've always thought that people in countries where they riot about religion just don't have enough to do. Perhaps the Devil making work for idle hands?

I'm too busy earning a living and looking after my family to be making bombs and fighting about what should be nothing more than an internal spiritual affair and a positive force for good in a community.
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Post by Ted »

The first question should be "What does the story mean?".

We have no idea as to whether Abraham was an historical character or the creation of a writer in a midrashic sense.

Shalom

Ted:-6
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

Diuretic;506073 wrote: It was Karl Marx Tigerlily - but his remarks have been slightly misinterpreted over the years. It's necessary to ready what he said in context and at the moment I can't remember which work contains that phrase. I will have to google it and come back later.

On edit: - found a reference at http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/ - ‘Contribution to a Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right, Introduction’ (He always did go in for long titles).
it may have been marx's communist manfesto, his definitive book of world economics in which he describes the differences between workers, owners, and business management.

remember, marx was writing about the fairly new industrialization underway in his time, not advocating the political structure, which gave rise to communism and socialism. :lips: :driving: :-4
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

Diuretic;506548 wrote: It was in his Critique of Hegel, I checked. I found it one of my books.



The Communist Manifesto, which he co-wrote with Engels, was really a rallying call and not so much an analysis of capitalism - he did that in Capital and a lot of other works.



I'm still stunned by his analysis.

Anyway what were we discussing?


something about the middle east and it's religious and political disputes. the biggest problem, as i see the middle east, isn't so much an inability to come to grips with its differences, as an unwillingness to stop the violence.

regardless of what plans are formulated, and there have been many, one or more parties needed to implement said plan refuses to adopt it. such is the state of flux in the region, that, whatever compromise is put forth, it cannot work because not everyone will follow it, preferring to use violence, not as an end, but as an excuse to remain unsettled.

religious idealism, for all of its adaptability, will never be anything less than a divisive factor. whichever particular group, whether orthodox, modernist, fundamentalist, or just off the wall, wants to bring about a peaceful resolution, one of the others will deny it acceptance because of their own innate ignorance of the nature of their own biases. that being the case, how can anyone expect to provide for those biases as a workable one-size-fits-all political solution?

the political and economic leadership in the oil-rich arab nations don't want anything to upset their apple carts of pwer and influence over ignorant, and easily fooled,religious fanatics and those who, though not fanatical, are aquiescent to those fanatical parts of there religious family.:lips: :-4 :driving:
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

Diuretic;506693 wrote: I think that's pretty well summed it up charles - :)


and there is yet more to consider, but that will be another day. unless someone comes along who'll bring a solution to the table which all sides will accept, it may be a while before order can be restored in the region.

i just hope it isn't the arab. then all hell will break loose.:lips: :driving: :-4
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by clearmind69 »

Hello to one and all,

I am new here and would like to say hello to eveyone.

On the issue of the middle east situation, everyone seems have some sort of a view upon it.

My understanding to this is the people of that land (in my understanding) have often sewn terms such as ' live by the sword,die by the sword', also ' an eye for an eye'. In laymans terms they are retaliating to those whom have attacked them And so it goes on and on, one attacks one and the other attacks the other.



They are it seems creating their own doom. Its sad to see, people and governments try to intervene. If these people dont wish to help themselves, refuse help when it is offered and continue to go at it with stubborness and without listening to others or trying to find a peaceful solution, then the war wages on.

It can be said there is no peace in their hearts, their minds are intent on destruction. Then what can be done. I guess it is cycle which has been happening throughout the millenia amidst the human race. One thing is for certain, when all the storms are subsided, peace will eventually return.

:-6 :-6 :-6 :-6
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

clearmind69;538129 wrote: Hello to one and all,

I am new here and would like to say hello to eveyone.

On the issue of the middle east situation, everyone seems have some sort of a view upon it.

My understanding to this is the people of that land (in my understanding) have often sewn terms such as ' live by the sword,die by the sword', also ' an eye for an eye'. In laymans terms they are retaliating to those whom have attacked them And so it goes on and on, one attacks one and the other attacks the other.



They are it seems creating their own doom. Its sad to see, people and governments try to intervene. If these people dont wish to help themselves, refuse help when it is offered and continue to go at it with stubborness and without listening to others or trying to find a peaceful solution, then the war wages on.

It can be said there is no peace in their hearts, their minds are intent on destruction. Then what can be done. I guess it is cycle which has been happening throughout the millenia amidst the human race. One thing is for certain, when all the storms are subsided, peace will eventually return.

:-6 :-6 :-6 :-6


i don't think there is no peace in their hearts. i think there is, but on their terms and theirs alone. since the idyllic peace would be for all, until everyone comes to some agreement acceptable to all the differerent "peace" seeking factions, no peace is possible.

unfortunately, the different "peace" proposals are not able to satisfy the various factions' terems for peace. one faction will agree to one proposal;, but another refuses it, ad finitum. someday, and one not that far off, a pseudo-peace will be established, but it will soon fall to the side. not because it won't work, but because the purpose is only to gather sufficient forces as to re-establish an ages long past empire based upon a religious law, and will be one which is only to the benefit of a small group of people, and against the majority idea of fairness to all.
Ted
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by Ted »

I can agree with Diuretic.

A lot of these folks just seem to love to hate each other. What utter nonsense.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

It would seem that the following does fit in with the theme the end of time.

We are now 90% certain that man is the cause of the intense global climate change. We have more powerful storms, intense flooding in the world such as is beyond the usual, tornadoes in London England etc.

With such changes our ability to produce food is going to be seriously compromised. The Canadian prairies are becoming a desert, the Sahara is now spreading across the Mediterranean Sea into France and we have massive melting of the world's ice caps.

It seems to me that this can potentially lead to international social and economic chaos and not in the two distant future. Are we creating our own Armageddon in a sense? Are we creating our own hell here on earth?

Shalom

Ted:-6
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

Ted;538932 wrote: It would seem that the following does fit in with the theme the end of time.

We are now 90% certain that man is the cause of the intense global climate change. We have more powerful storms, intense flooding in the world such as is beyond the usual, tornadoes in London England etc.

With such changes our ability to produce food is going to be seriously compromised. The Canadian prairies are becoming a desert, the Sahara is now spreading across the Mediterranean Sea into France and we have massive melting of the world's ice caps.

It seems to me that this can potentially lead to international social and economic chaos and not in the two distant future. Are we creating our own Armageddon in a sense? Are we creating our own hell here on earth?

Shalom

Ted:-6


somewhat of an oversimplification, but accurate. until each and every person agrees that they are all individuals, not part of a group, they will never be able to bring peace to anyone. true peace, lasting and unchanging, begins inside each of us.

most people today seek a grandious plan , not a simple plan, which establishes a global peace network among nations. therein lay the problem. a global initiative cannot be achieved, not because it isn't possible, but because it would be unworkable. some group would have to give up something, while another would seek to add something else. such would be the demands between differing ideas, that no group would give up, what another finds desireable. since the idea of compromise is anathema to some cultures, and implicit in others, how does any group, or any number of groups agree to anything which requires it. then there are those who are unwilling to compromise, no matter that any such compromise is simply because they don't get everything they want.

the israeli government tried to give the palestinians 95% of what they wanted so as to establish a peacful solution with the israeli/palestinian conditions. arafat, the palestinian head, refused to accept the compromise that the israelis offerred, not because it wasn't in their best interests, but because they had to give up the idea of having jerusalem as their capitol. so much for compromise between diffewring groups. but the palestinians themselves were never allowed a voice in the matter. they were told what was acceptable to them, but not by their own people, but from an imposed leadership with only its own desires in mind.

only when the people themselves decide what they want, and without any outside "help and advice" from those who are only working on their own behalf, will a peace become a possibility.:lips: :-5
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BTS
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Post by BTS »

Ted;538932 wrote: It would seem that the following does fit in with the theme the end of time.



We are now 90% certain that man is the cause of the intense global climate change.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Huhh





Ted............. then WHY is this supposed GLOBAL WARMING frosting me arse here in NM EVERY morning for the last 2 months?........... (12-20-30 degrees EVERY morn?)

Yes. RECORD COLD here and in Colorado........



OOPS that is NOT proof to the theory of warming so it is NOT reported.........

But when a heat wave hits that is reported as GLOBAL WARMING.......

But a COLD spell is a NON story?



Do a little rersearch...............

It is just "WEATHER" ....NOT global warming







OH yah........... 90% certain u are?........



Tell us oh swamie........ WHY ............. ONLY 90% and NOT 100%......
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
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Post by Ted »

BTS:-6

Apparently you have not been following the research. They quite easily explain why you are freezing. I think the science is quite clear that there is little to no doubt that global warming is a problem and that it is not progressing at an even pace but is increasing in its speed.

These are not facts from me but from the world's top climatologists from something like 140 countries around the world. The report was agreed to unanimously. By hiding our heads in the sand we are not only hurting ourselves but everyone else in the world.

The research has been done and the conclusions are as certain as anything can be in science. To me that is good enough.

Those who worry about their damned economy over the environment are indeed burying their heads in the sand. No economy will exist when we no longer exist.

So rather than telling me to do the research perhaps you should. If one listens to the scientists employed by the fossil fuel industry one will never get the truth.

One thing is certain and that is I am not impressed by sarcasm.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

Diuretic:-6

Thanks.

I used to sit back and say we should start to clean up our act but with the latest research and almost unanimous consent of the world's leading climatologists issuing their dire predictions in France I think it is time we all changed our tune.

Some scientists are even claiming the report is on the very conservative side. I don't know about that but the proof is in what is happening in the polar regions of the world as well as the extremely wild and abnormal weather being experienced all over the world.

Part of the problem is that the changes are apparently inconsistent in some places such as what BTS has said but they have explained that. Apparently the conservative prediction is a global increase of 1.7 C. and could go as high as 7 C to 8 C. Apparently this would raise the ocean levels to incredible heights and swallow up a lot of land thus creating millions upon millions of ecological refugees. The prediction is if we were to lower substantially the CO2 output the present problems will remain for at least a thousand years.

Becoming panicky is not the answer but immediate and forceful steps are apparently now needed.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by nvalleyvee »

charles_r51;370923 wrote: has anyone come up with something which may explain what the middle east is coming to? i don't mean bible prophecy, but the relationships between the new conditions that seem to be affecting the middle eastern political situation and whether it is having any global repercussions on the political front. it seems to me that some behind the scenes political manuevering seems to keep the middle east in a tumultuous condition. ever since the attempts to bring peace into the region back in the mid-eighties, it always seems some group or other interferes with the effort and additional unrest flares up. no matter what solution is proposed, it always gets derailed by something that happens in another area of the middle east. could this be a continuous plannned effort by someone seeking to exploit the problems? anyone have any thoughts on this matter? i'd be interested in your opinions. and please, don't use bible qoutes, they just confuse the issue. i'd like real opinions, not imaginary ones.:-5 :-5 :lips: :lips:


This entire situation is nothing more than ANOTHER religious **** up. The country has done nothing other than try to incorporate several religious factions into one country.........DID'NT WORK DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never has and never will.

When will we give up and FORCE countries to divide according to religious preference????? DANG - give everyone a piece of Earth and call EVEN!!!!
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
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BTS
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Post by BTS »

Ted;539055 wrote: BTS:-6



Apparently you have not been following the research. They quite easily explain why you are freezing. I think the science is quite clear that there is little to no doubt that global warming is a problem and that it is not progressing at an even pace but is increasing in its speed.



These are not facts from me but from the world's top climatologists from something like 140 countries around the world. The report was agreed to unanimously. By hiding our heads in the sand we are not only hurting ourselves but everyone else in the world.



The research has been done and the conclusions are as certain as anything can be in science. To me that is good enough.



Those who worry about their damned economy over the environment are indeed burying their heads in the sand. No economy will exist when we no longer exist.



So rather than telling me to do the research perhaps you should. If one listens to the scientists employed by the fossil fuel industry one will never get the truth.



One thing is certain and that is I am not impressed by sarcasm.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Teddy........SHOW US ALL the research that has been done as to why we should believe in the supposition of this GLOBAL WARMING Theory..........

Facts ONLY please
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
Ted
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Post by Ted »

BTS:-6

Afraid of a little research or don't you want to know the truth. It is often said that ostriches bury their heads in the sand. Any sand near you?

Perhaps you should listen to the international news instead of the propaganda that your country places before you. Just like the propaganda that was spread during the Viet Nam war and exposed by, and at the moment I forget his name. The truth was not appreciated.

Must be some sand in Washington DC as well.

Shalom

Ted
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nvalleyvee
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Post by nvalleyvee »

nvalleyvee;539897 wrote: This entire situation is nothing more than ANOTHER religious **** up. The country has done nothing other than try to incorporate several religious factions into one country.........DID'NT WORK DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Never has and never will.

When will we give up and FORCE countries to divide according to religious preference????? DANG - give everyone a piece of Earth and call EVEN!!!!


Ted...... do you agree?
The growth of knowledge depends entirely on disagreement..........Karl R. Popper
charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

nvalleyvee;544778 wrote: Ted...... do you agree?


the solution is not giving everyone a piece of the pie, but to throw out the damn pie. then no one will have anything to argue about. in short, if we eliminate religion, we eliminate all potential problems it has and continues to create. when religfion gets taken out of any equation upon which peace is formulated, it no longer creates and maintains a sense of difference.

politics is the art of compromise, religion is a cause of seperation. hence, religion and compromise cannot be co-equals in achieving some form of negotiation. religion defines and enforces difference, politics seeks to reach a mutually acceptable compromise which neither side fully agrees with, but will accept as a means of achieving some semblance of order out of chaos. no one gets all they want, but what they get puts them on a level playing field.:lips: :-5 :driving:
Ted
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Post by Ted »

nvalleyvee:-6

Religion is only a part of the equation. It has been used inappropriately down through the centuries to justify all manner of evil. However, one should look at the basic tenets of all the great faiths and find out that it is not the use of but the misuse of.

Force countries to divide along religious lines? Absolutely not. Vancouver is an extremely multicultural place and because of that I love it.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Ted »

BTS:-6

Daniel Ellesberg was the name I was looking for in the above post. Your country needs more like him.

Then I thought about the present Iraqi situation and was still wondering where the WMDs were. Damned hard to find.

In answer to your question about research I would suggest that you view the DVD "An Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore. One may or may not like Mr. Gore but the research evidence he presents does not change because of it. BTW some of that evidence came from your own NASA. That should get you started unless you are still in the sand box. LOL.

Shalom

Ted:-6
charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

ah, yes. dan ellsberg. the pentagon papers man. and such information as he let out was very damaging and the government's attempts to silence him went to no ends. remembering the atmosphere in washinton at the time, no wonder they tried to shut him up, defame him, break in to his psychiatrists office to gather damaging information, etc.

but of course the erpetrators of all these shenanigans were exposed for the stupidity they acted with. many went to prison, but the one who should have been forced to be exposed fully and completely was give a free pass, while those who were so stupid to get into that mess went to the big house.

ford may have been correct in giving nixon a pardon, but he should have let the law follow its course and allowed him to face the people in a court of law before letting him off the hook.

while the pardon put a lid on further investigations, it never was shown to be in the best interests of the country. instead of being in the best interests of the office nixon brought such shame to.

let us hope that inb the near future, another such expose will bring some sense of order once more to the government of the people, instead of keeping it hidden for the rich and powerful.:-5 :driving:
tr0lle
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Post by tr0lle »

Probably because the European powers split up what was left of the Ottoman Empire callously
charles_r51
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Post by charles_r51 »

tr0lle;551452 wrote: Probably because the European powers split up what was left of the Ottoman Empire callously


don't blame the european powers for the actions of the mostly british power mongering in the middle east. most of the middle east was under brithish control under mandates from the british foreign office and the british military who was more concerned with obtaining wealth and power wherever it could be found. a great many british aristocrats became wealthy by denying the native peoples any say in what was to be done with the weath found in such areas, as salt being sold to the indian population, when they already knew how to get it from the ocean free of charge, the british government outlawed the process as they had a monopoly on selling salt.

how many egyptian tombs were robbed of their weath and had it sent to the british museum? who owned the suez canal? the brithish an french consortium, not the egyptian government until mid century. how many of the arab countries were ruled by european corporations seeking to become wealthy from arab oil.

only decades after did the arab countries finally throw out the europeans and take control of their own wealth.

and lets not forget the wealth of south africa. lands held by various tribes were taken, the citizenry slaughtered, then settled into tiny homelands while the white population took everything and the natives starved. even today, the diamond mines are still owned by a few white europeans. the workers get nothing, even though they were there living and existing on the land for millenia. are they getting any benmefit? not on your life.

yes there is social unrest, but don't assume just because one religious belief says what is going to happen, that it will happen in accordance to what that one believes. there are seven major religions, and numerous small ones, and they all have some common ideas. the question is less what is to happen and more how will it happen.

for a good step forward, learn the meaning of the symbolism in genesis. once you comprehend it, you may be able to understand the revelation. neither is what you think.:lips: :-5 :driving:
charles_r51
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end time prophecy and the middle east today

Post by charles_r51 »

[QUOTE=Ted;545478]BTS:-6

Daniel Ellesberg was the name I was looking for in the above post. Your country needs more like him.

Then I thought about the present Iraqi situation and was still wondering where the WMDs were. Damned hard to find.

In answer to your question about research I would suggest that you view the DVD "An Inconvenient Truth" by Al Gore. One may or may not like Mr. Gore but the research evidence he presents does not change because of it. BTW some of that evidence came from your own NASA. That should get you started unless you are still in the sand box. LOL.

Shalom



HI TED, REMEMBER ME? FINALLY BACK AFTER NUMEROUS PC TROUBLES, CRASHES, VIRUSES, HEADACHES, ETC. WHAT SHALL WE ARGUE ABOUT NEXT?



HI TED, REMEMBER ME? :D:D:cool:
goliah
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Post by goliah »

We tend to think of terms such as 'prophecy' and 'judgement' or 'end times' from within the cutural context, that is the 'religious' context from which they were created. Whether one is a believer or not. That context is of course a theological expression and the validity of theology may have already seen it's sell by date. Last year I started a thread on a new Christian religious truth claim and moral teaching [http:]www.energon.org.uk] that continues spreading on the web and which turns the entire 'faith' paradigm on its head. I have since completed testing this new material and can comfirm its authenticity. The change in paradigm is this: one does not accept anything on faith, but tests the insight and claims by faith!

If or as or when this teaching is confirmed in sufficient numbers, it threatens to bring down the entire 'Christian' tradition as a theological counterfeit with equally grave implications for Israel. One should remember that their are ultra orthodox Jewish sects that refuse to even acknowledge the secular state of Israel because of its 'political' origins. But even so, if the religious roots of Judaism come under question, so does the state and the entire middle east will be thrown into confusion. This developemnt may in fact be the beginning of the process that has been referred to as 'the end times' but unrelated to any known theological/eschatological understanding.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

Charles:-6

Welcome back. Oh yes, I remember. LOL.

By all means let us carry on.

Shalom

Ted:-6
Ted
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Post by Ted »

goliah:-6

Which Christian paradigm are you trying to topple?

Shalom

Ted:-6
goliah
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Post by goliah »

The whole of history............

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