November 11th...US Veteran's Day

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:55 am

A reminder that Saturday, November 11th is the US Veteran's Day, where we honor all of our vets.

So, if you have a friend , family or aquaintance who is a vet..make sure you give them a call, send an email, or just remember to acknowledge them on that day.

Not from the US? Feel free to borrow our holiday to honor your own veterans.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 8:57 am

Nice thought, Marie.

I'll be sure to pass it on :-6

Rapunzel · Post by **Rapunzel** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 1:47 pm

November 11th is also the day we remember our war heroes, it dates back to when we signed the armistice ending WWII on November 11th at 11am (11/11/11) - which is probably why its your Remembrance Day too. Duh! (I'm so stoopid!) :-5

On the nearest Sunday (12th this year) we hold memorial services all across the country and a major march past is organised at The Cenotaph in London where poppy wreaths are laid by the Royal Family, past and present prime ministers, representatives of many nations across the globe and members representing each division of our forces, past and present.

Its an extremely moving event as you watch veterans marching (or being wheeled) past and saluting the cenotaph, with all their newly-polished medals shining in the sun. I think last year there were about 6 veterans from WWI still surviving - and all were aged over 100!

http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk ... rance.html

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:41 pm

BUMP

Here's to all our gardening veterans!!

Bez · Post by **Bez** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:03 pm

We also have the Festival of Remembrance at the Royal Albert Hall. I don't think I've ever missed watching this on TV.....very moving, specially when they drop millions of poppy petals representing all those that have died in combat over the years

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 3:14 pm

In Flanders Fields

By: Lieutenant Colonel John McCrae, MD (1872-1918)

Canadian Army

IN FLANDERS FIELDS the poppies blow

Between the crosses row on row,

That mark our place; and in the sky

The larks, still bravely singing, fly

Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago

We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,

Loved and were loved, and now we lie

In Flanders fields. Take up our quarrel with the foe:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:24 pm

Thanks, LC..read that a long time ago. Forgot about it.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:54 pm

Our Memorial day in May I think is closer to your Rememberance day. Where we remember the war dead and stuff. Some here called it Decoration Day...I think because folks went out and put flowers and/or flags on the graves .

Veterans Day honors living and dead vets.

But they both provide good honor and recognition.

Richard Bell · Post by **Richard Bell** » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:17 pm

Marie5656;448758 wrote: Not from the US? Feel free to borrow our holiday to honor your own veterans.

November 11 is observed by all the Allied nations that fought in World War I.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:25 am

Richard Bell;454625 wrote: November 11 is observed by all the Allied nations that fought in World War I.

Also the germans and everybody else involved as well. The whole point is to remember the sheer waste and futility of it all and of war in general so it never happens again. I always find it a very sad day.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:45 am

Richard Bell;454625 wrote: November 11 is observed by all the Allied nations that fought in World War I.

Thanks for the info. I never knew that. I seem to learn alot from you, Richard.

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:18 am

Marie5656;454751 wrote: Thanks for the info. I never knew that. I seem to learn alot from you, Richard.Marie is quite right in saying November 11th is a US commemoration. The year after the end of the Great War, President Wilson proclaimed the first Armistice Day with the following words: "To us in America, the reflections of armistice Day will be filled with solemn pride in the heroism of those who died in the countryâ€™s service and with gratitude for the victory, both because of the thing from which it has freed us and because of the opportunity it has given America to show her sympathy with peace and justice in the councils of the nationsâ€¦" The original concept for the celebration was for the suspension of business for a two minute period beginning at 11 A.M., with the day also marked by parades and public meetings. In England, by contrast, we held a somewhat insensitive Victory Parade along Whitehall: "In the middle of the roadway rises the Cenotaph, commemorating in dignified simplicity the Glorious Dead of 1914-18. The monument, designed by Sir Edwin Lutyens, was erected in plaster as a saluting point for the Allied 'Victory March' of November 11th, 1919, and was rebuilt in stone and unveiled by the King on November 11th, 1920, the second anniversary of the Armistice." It was only on that second anniversary that the British adopted Woodrow Wilson's more reflective approach.

On the other hand, we've stuck to it ever since while the Americans have chopped and changed over the years. Congress declared November 11, 1921 a legal Federal holiday to honor all those who participated in the war. Throughout the 1920s and 1930s, most states established November 11 as a legal holiday and at the Federal level, an annual proclamation was issued by the President, but in 1954 Eisenhower changed the name of the legal holiday from Armistice Day to Veteranâ€™s Day. This was changed in 1968 to the fourth Monday in October, and back to November 11th in 1978. It's not surprising that the origins of the event were mislaid by the public at large.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:39 am

As a US veteran I certainly appreciate the support of my countrymen and women in remembering and honoring US vets on Veterans day..However what I would appreciate more would be them contacting their political representatives and urging them to stop the further erosion of VA benefits as being conducted by the current administration. While talking about leading and supporting troops as he got us involved in two costly wars the Bush administration has failed to take care of those troops after they return from the battles. The sad reality is that except for one day a year vets are basically forgotton the rest of the time.

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articl ... cleID=5315

Washington, D.C. ? Congressman Lane Evans of Illinois, Senior Democrat on the House Veterans? Affairs Committee, issued the following statement on the President?s State of the Union address:

When President Bush delivers his annual State of the Union address on Tuesday he no doubt will claim credit for a great many things. But as so often happens with this Administration, the rhetoric is contradicted by reality ? what you see and hear is not always what you get.

The President likely will tell us the economy is doing well, even though we know that many of our fellow citizens are working harder and harder trying just to keep up. The President?s economic plan will consist of more of the same ? tax cuts for his rich friends and associates and fewer opportunities for average Americans.

I expect he will present Americans with more misguided legislative proposals and skewed budget priorities that will mean more deep cuts to the programs the American people need and care about. America?s veterans should be spared from these false choices ? unfortunately the record of this President does not give me cause to expect it.

Last year, the President did not once mention the word ?veteran? during the course of his State of the Union address. I wonder if he will discuss veterans this year; they and their families represent more than a quarter of the U.S. population. No one, after all, has sacrificed more in the course of serving our nation. Surely he can find space in his message to acknowledge and thank them.

But more important than merely mentioning veterans is what his Administration should do for veterans and their families. Has this President heard the voices of veterans across our land, voices demanding adequate health care funding? Has he heard from veterans who deserve accurate and timely decisions on claims for earned benefits? Has he heard veterans pleading for more resources and creative initiatives in order to address post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and the plague of homelessness? Sadly, the evidence shows he has not.

Since fiscal year 2002, which marks the first budget submitted by his Administration, the President has requested an average annual increase of only 3.4 percent in appropriated dollars for VA health care. In fact, for this current fiscal year, the President initially requested an increase in appropriated dollars of only 0.4 percent. Congress has provided an average annual increase of 7.9 percent. Although this average increase of 7.9 percent is over twice as much as the President has requested, it has not been sufficient to meet the needs of the Nation?s veterans. The VA itself testified that it requires a 13 to 14 percent annual increase just to keep up. The President wishes to take full credit for a funding job less than half-done, while his Administration stands by and watches the care gap widen.

Moreover, the President is quick to point out that he has signed into law bills that benefit veterans, again masking the complete truth ? his Administration waged unsuccessful battles against the very legislation to which the President affixed his signature. A case in point is the White House claim that ?President Bush twice signed legislation effectively providing ?concurrent receipt? of both military retired pay and VA disability compensation for those regular military retirees most deserving ? combat-injured and highly disabled veterans ? reversing a century-old law preventing concurrent receipt.? However, the statement fails to acknowledge that the President early on signaled his adamant opposition to such legislation, vigorously fighting against its passage and vowing to veto it if it reached his desk. Further, more work remains to fully repeal the Disabled Veterans? Tax, as disabled veterans rated at 40 percent or below ? roughly two-thirds of all disabled veterans ? continue to wait for their earned benefits, including elderly World War II and Korean War era veterans.

The President?s claims of providing greater funding than he has requested and taking credit for new laws he did not initially support, even fought against, belies the appalling record of an Administration that has not only given veterans? needs short shrift but has, in fact, actively sought to diminish VA?s mission:

The President?s budget requests have not kept pace with health care demand, as evidenced in part by continuing unacceptably long waiting times for thousands of veterans to receive a medical appointment;

The President denied access to more than 260,000 veterans who sought VA care in fiscal year 2005 and upwards of a half million in the last two years, solely as a cost-cutting measure;

The President?s budget includes years of purported savings due to ?management efficiencies? in his VA budget submissions. In reality this budget gimmick equals millions of dollars in claimed phantom savings that he uses to short change real financial needs for veterans? health care. There is no convincing justification or true accounting for these ?efficiencies,? which serve as nothing more than a diversion to conceal the fact that the White House wants to ration health care to veterans;

The President clearly believes that veterans do not pay enough for health care, and that some veterans should pay for the health care services provided to other veterans, as exhibited by his persistent call for user fees and startling increases in prescription co-payments ? increases repeatedly rejected by the Congress. The President?s cost-shifting proposals seek to suppress demand, further deterring veterans from even seeking health care that they have earned through their service;

The President has sought to devastate long-term care services, just as we are experiencing a peak in the aging veteran population. He called for cuts in VA?s nursing home program that would drop its average daily census drastically below the capacity mandated by federal law and which would effectively end the highly successful state veterans? home program;

The President?s pattern and practice of shortchanging veterans led to a fiscal year 2005 VA health care shortfall of $1.5 billion and fiscal year 2006 budget shortfall of $1.97 billion. After months of repeated warnings by Democrats and veterans? advocates that the VA faced a dangerous funding shortfall, the Administration during the summer of 2005 begrudgingly acknowledged that these warnings were accurate and that it lacked the funds to adequately meet the health care needs of our veterans;

The President had rejected two earlier attempts to add funding through supplemental budget requests and, in fact, directed delivery of a statement of position to Capitol Hill ?strongly? opposing Congressional efforts to add $1.3 billion for veterans? health care in the fiscal year 2004 Emergency Supplemental for Iraq and Afghanistan Security and Reconstruction Bill;

The President sought deep cuts in VA?s cutting-edge research program, and recommended insufficient resources in the VA construction program to modernize and replace VA medical facilities;

Data indicate that 1 out of 4 returning servicemembers from Iraq and Afghanistan experience physical and mental stress symptoms, and many are suffering from PTSD. The Administration has refused to increase staff to help the families of veterans with PTSD, even though veterans with PTSD are at risk of divorce and relationship problems. The Administration targeted many severely-disabled veterans suffering with mental health problems by seeking review of their benefits, subjecting them to the trauma of re-documenting their claims even though the errors that prompted the review were the result of administrative mistakes and not fraud, as the Administration implied. The Administration has also halted a congressionally mandated study to examine the long-term health effects of PTSD on Vietnam veterans;

Recommendations arising from evaluations of VA programs have gone ignored or unimplemented, such as:

Increasing benefits to surviving spouses with children whose veteran spouses died as the result of service to our Nation;

Increasing funds for maintenance of cemeteries as national shrines;

Reducing premiums paid for government life insurance by severely disabled veterans;

Increasing pension benefits for low-income wartime veterans and their survivors.

The number of staff at VA regional benefits offices has dropped from 7,053 as of September 30, 2002, to 6,880 as of September 30, 2005. During the same period, VA experienced a significant increase in the number of claims filed for benefits, such as service-connected compensation, pensions and survivor benefits. Partly because of veterans returning from our recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, more than 50,000 additional compensation claims were filed in 2005 than in 2002. The backlog has increased and more veterans are waiting over six months for a decision on their claims. As of January 21, 2006, more than a half million claimants were awaiting a decision, including 368,000 who were seeking a decision on a disability rating. More than 151,000 veterans had appeals pending at VA regional benefits offices. Without resources that match the need for services, the backlog can be expected to grow, yet the President refuses to recognize these issues as a continuing cost of his war.

The Administration illegally used scarce resources, originally specified for veterans? health care services, to pursue pet projects within the President?s Management Agenda. The non-partisan Government Accountability Office has found that VA violated federal law by wrongly using such funds for unauthorized purposes. The Administration characteristically disavows any wrongdoing.

It is disgraceful that year after year veterans, hats in hand, must beg for an adequate budget from the White House and GOP-controlled Congress. As the past year?s $1.5 billion shortfall in veterans? health care demonstrated, veterans have not been unreasonable in their call for adequate funding for the agency that was established to care for them. But instead of stepping forward and legitimately addressing veterans? concerns, the President?s response is to brazenly take credit where credit is not due and then further diminish veterans? benefits and services.

So as he addresses the Nation on Tuesday, and as he submits his new budget on February 6, I will be hoping that the President will do right by veterans. I hope that the President will own up to the shortcomings of his Administration and finally address the problems faced by our veterans and returning servicemembers. It is time for him to step up to his responsibility ? America?s responsibility ? and work to reverse a misguided philosophy and extraordinary failures in the veterans? benefits and health care arena.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:42 am

it's sad to say but veteran's medical care is not what it should be either. you would think the government would do better since so many men and women fought and gave their lives for us.

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:11 am

guppy;454846 wrote: it's sad to say but veteran's medical care is not what it should be either. you would think the government would do better since so many men and women fought and gave their lives for us.

And with the Veteran's hospitals closing all over...that is pretty sad.

My brother is on alot of medication....he can get most of it through the VA, but not all.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:16 am

yes, i have some great uncles who fought in world war two. i know they get shabby medical care at the va hospital. it's a disgrace to our country. they fought for our freedom. they represented our ideals of freedom. and we , as a country treat them very disrespectfully.

Post by **spot** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 1:22 pm

guppy;454846 wrote: it's sad to say but veteran's medical care is not what it should be either. you would think the government would do better since so many men and women fought and gave their lives for us.You do have rather more veterans than us. We have provision for ex-servicemen who fall on hard times but I'm sure that's similar to your own arrangements. Our main charity collects around $50 million a year to support them.

Do you think there is a difference between a State's responsibilities toward conscripts compared to what it should accept for volunteers?

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 5:16 pm

Day is done, gone the sun,

From the hills, from the lake,

From the sky.

All is well, safely rest,

God is nigh.

Go to sleep, peaceful sleep,

May the soldier or sailor,

God keep.

On the land or the deep,

Safe in sleep.

Love, good night, Must thou go,

When the day, And the night

Need thee so?

All is well. Speedeth all

To their rest.

Fades the light; And afar

Goeth day, And the stars

Shineth bright,

Fare thee well; Day has gone,

Night is on.

Thanks and praise, For our days,

'Neath the sun, Neath the stars,

'Neath the sky,

As we go, This we know,

God is nigh.

nvalleyvee · Post by **nvalleyvee** » Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:12 pm

So what do you think about putting up a flag with 48 stars........my Dad's coffin flag.

I've been told it is not patriotic..............f-that.

I want to fly it..........

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:06 am

nvalleyvee;455553 wrote: So what do you think about putting up a flag with 48 stars........my Dad's coffin flag.

I've been told it is not patriotic..............f-that.

I want to fly it..........

Not being American I don't understand the significance of the 48 stars and how it could be unpatriotic. But I would say IMO that the day you allow someone to decide for you what is and isn't patriotic is the day you are no longer in a free country.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:21 am

nvalleyvee;455553 wrote: So what do you think about putting up a flag with 48 stars........my Dad's coffin flag.

I've been told it is not patriotic..............f-that.

I want to fly it..........
It's patriotic. It's beyond patriotic, because it honors not only our country's history, but your Dad as well. That flag was presented to his family in his memory.

Fly that flag as his spirit flies and be proud! :yh_flag

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GMC,

Our Flag has 13 stripes and 50 stars. The stripes represent the original 13 states (colonies) that gave birth to our nation. The original flag also had 13 stars. As more states joined the Union, a star was added for each. In WWII we had 48 states, 48 stars. Alaska and Hawaii round out our current 50 states.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 12:34 pm

GMC,

Our Flag has 13 stripes and 50 stars. The stripes represent the original 13 states (colonies) that gave birth to our nation. The original flag also had 13 stars. As more states joined the Union, a star was added for each. In WWII we had 48 states, 48 stars. Alaska and Hawaii round out our current 50 states.

So why on earth would it be unpatriotic to fly it then?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 2:24 pm

gmc;455966 wrote: So why on earth would it be unpatriotic to fly it then?
An excellent question!

Post by **spot** » Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:27 pm

Magenta flame;456084 wrote: It's weird that you call it that. I thought it was a world wide "Armistice Day" basically the end of World War I. In fact even the "enemy" hold it as a rememberance day.Do you think so? I'd be very surprised to find that they do, though they certainly used to. Next time you watch Leni Riefenstahl's "Triumph of the Will", consider that the Nuremberg Stadium was built as a memorial to German soldiers killed in the first world war, and that the saluting stormtroopers were paying their collective respects. If you can tell us about current German practice I'd be very interested in the details.

Post by **spot** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:05 am

Magenta flame;456250 wrote: "Each year in November, on Remembrance Day and on the National Day of Mourning, the British and the Germans remember their dead of the two World Wars of the last century."That's very good - I'd looked and I couldn't find any reference to German acts of remembrance relating to Armistice Day.

I had a suspicion that any such German national Day of Mourning was associated with June 28th, the day on which the Treaty of Versailles was signed in 1919 and (I doubt whether it was entirely coincidental) also the day on which Gavrilo Princip assassinated Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria and his wife Sophie, Duchess of Hohenberg in Sarajevo in 1914, triggering the treaty obligations which led to the outbreak of war. In 1929 (I take this from the Times):The Government of the Reich issues the following manifesto, addressed to "the German People" on the occasion of the 10th anniversary of the signature of the Treaty of Peace at Versailles:-

"To-day is a day of mourning. Ten years have passed since at Versailles the German peace negotiators were compelled to attach their signatures to a document which was a bitter disappointment to all friends of justice and of a genuine peace. For 10 years the treaty has weighed heavily upon all sections of the German nation, upon intellectual and upon economic life, upon the labours of the workman and the labours of the peasant. Intense, stubborn work and whole-hearted unity on the part of all classes of the German nation have been necessary in order to avert at least the most serious effects of the Treaty of Versailles, which threatened the existence of our Fatherland and placed the economic prosperity of Europe in jeopardy.

"Germany signed the Treaty without thereby acknowledging that the German nation was the author of the War. This imputation leaves our people no peace of mind and disturbs international confidence. We know that we are at one with all Germans in the repudiation of the charge of Germany's sole responsibility for the War, and in the firm trust that the idea of a true peace, which can only be based, not upon dictation, but upon the unanimous and sincere conviction of free and equal nations, will prevail in the future."

The manifesto is signed by President von Hindenburg, Herr Hermann Muller, the Chancellor, and all the Cabinet Ministers.In The Scotsman of 11 November 2001, Hew Strachan noted:In 1998 I was in Germany on the occasion of the 80th anniversary of the First World War's end. A somewhat naive British television crew could not understand why the occasion was not being marked in the Federal Republic. But for Germany November 11, 1918 marks defeat and inaugurates revolution. Moreover, the legacy of the First World War was swamped by the need to exorcise the memory of the Second.So, yes, the turn-out of the German Ambassador at the German Military Cemetery of Cannock Chase is a welcome move, I'm all for it.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:35 pm

Go in to any small or large town in germany, france , britain, italy, austria and they all have one thing in common. Poignant Memorials to the dead of two world wars often just simple pillars with lists of names on them. The longest lists are fow ww1.

In ww1 in many towns a whole generation of young men was wiped out and their communities with them. It wasn't just us that had pals battalions.

"Pals".

In 1914 men were encouraged to join up together, being promised that they would serve with their friends ("pals") often in the same platoon or company. Whole groups of men joined the army on this basis often coming from the same warehouse or office. The Manchester Regiment quickly raised several thousand recruits by this system. Indeed, some battalions of the Regiment were initially known as the Warehousemen and Clerks battalions. The Battle of the Somme in 1916 caused tremendous casualties amongst "Pals" battalions resulting in whole communities and even families receiving War Office telegrams saying that their menfolk had been killed or wounded in action. After that men were drafted into regiments wherever reinforcements were needed