Parental punishment of children

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Parental punishment of children

Post by spot »

I'm taken by a paragraph in today's Independent:The Douglas family were later seen crying outside court. The boy's father blamed the Government for not giving parents the freedom to punish their children. The 53-year-old said: "I'll tell you this about the Government, they've got it wrong."

In the dock: the thieves who took goods on an industrial scale - Crime, UK - The Independent



What, I wonder, does Mr Douglas want to do to his children by way of punishment that this or any other British government has made illegal? It's a frightening thought.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

I dont' understand what you're trying to say
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Post by Ahso! »

spot;1365269 wrote: I'm taken by a paragraph in today's Independent:The Douglas family were later seen crying outside court. The boy's father blamed the Government for not giving parents the freedom to punish their children. The 53-year-old said: "I'll tell you this about the Government, they've got it wrong."

In the dock: the thieves who took goods on an industrial scale - Crime, UK - The Independent



What, I wonder, does Mr Douglas want to do to his children by way of punishment that this or any other British government has made illegal? It's a frightening thought.I take Mr. Douglas' point meaning that he would prefer him be the one to punish his son rather than his son going to jail. I think what he's saying is that the government is disrespecting parents by usurping their responsibility and judgment. Big government argument.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Bruv »

I believe Mr Douglas is referring to the fear factor, where parents are wary of inflicting physical punishment for fear the children will 'report' them.
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Post by spot »

"not giving parents the freedom to punish their children" presumably refers to a punishment the government has declared illegal in England but which Mr Douglas wishes he had had the legal sanction to choose while bringing his child up. What punishment might it have been?
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1365276 wrote: I take Mr. Douglas' point meaning that he would prefer him be the one to punish his son rather than his son going to jail.
You feel Mr Douglas is saying his son's actions shouldn't be declared criminal actions by the English legal system? I find that unlikely, if that's what you're saying.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Ahso! »

spot;1365286 wrote: You feel Mr Douglas is saying his son's actions shouldn't be declared criminal actions by the English legal system? I find that unlikely, if that's what you're saying.I think Mr Douglas is emotional right now and not thinking objectively. My guess is that in his state of mind he has no problem with the criminal aspects of the charges, he just wants his son to remain out of jail.
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Post by Ahso! »

spot;1365285 wrote: "not giving parents the freedom to punish their children" presumably refers to a punishment the government has declared illegal in England but which Mr Douglas wishes he had had the legal sanction to choose while bringing his child up. What punishment might it have been?I think that's logical albeit a misinterpretation of what Mr. Douglas is saying.
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1365291 wrote: I think that's a logical albeit misinterpretation of what Mr. Douglas is saying.


Let's pretend that Mr Douglas is saying what the Independent claims he's saying, just for a game. What do you make of "not giving parents the freedom to punish their children"?
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Post by Ahso! »

spot;1365298 wrote: Let's pretend that Mr Douglas is saying what the Independent claims he's saying, just for a game. What do you make of "not giving parents the freedom to punish their children"?If you're correct then I'd say Mr. Douglas is playing the victim.

If, taking your interpretation, Douglas is saying the rule of law prevented him from disciplining his son to the point of what most would consider abuse or even torture, I'd say that people who think like that usually are not that respectful of the rule of law as to not abuse children. That's why I disagree with your interpretation. Abusive people are normally sloppy when it comes to their own obedience to outside authorities. Their view of life is narrow.

It would help to know about the elder Douglas' upbringing.

I see nothing in the article you've link to indicate Aaron had a troubled past, and so, if in fact he doesn't have a history of getting into trouble, why would the father be complaining and blaming others for restraining his method of discipline?

The family "convinced" Aaron to turn himself in and had the support of his sister (and apparently the rest of his family). It sounds to me like the boy does in fact listen to his parents and is accountable for his actions.
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1365299 wrote: If you're correct then I'd say Mr. Douglas is playing the victim.

If, taking your interpretation, Douglas is saying the rule of law prevented him from disciplining his son to the point of what most would consider abuse or even torture
No, I don't think you need go that far. Mr Douglas is saying the law prevented him from disciplining his child within the bounds that (in his opinion) most people would consider acceptable and not abusive and not torture. He may well be right, I'm not saying he isn't. Maybe the government has done exactly that.

Different cultures set those limits at different levels. I was asking what the government was banning as illegal that Mr Douglas might have wanted to do (in the opinion of the posters here). We might also ask, if we agree what the action might be, whether he ought to have been legally allowed to do it.
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Post by Ahso! »

Then I have no idea.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

In many cases, the removal of discipline In the family Is no more than an excuse for lousy parenting when the parents find the spotlight on themselves.

However, I remember approx 4 years ago when my sisters husband at the end of his tether trying to stop his young son from going out had a verbal exchange with him and then put him In his room and locked the door. The little darling smashed the window and dropped several feet down onto his sisters over-grown trampoline In the garden and legged It with his mates. My brother In law phoned the police and they did stop him In the street and brought him home. My BIL asked plod to give his son a stern telling off but It was him who found himself at the end of the stern warning. He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his room although It was only meant to be for a few minutes until he had calmed down.

It's a difficult one because all children need to be protected from parents Ill treating them but then some-times, political correctness can go too far.
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Post by spot »

Ahso!;1365306 wrote: Then I have no idea.
What I, along with the entire chattering classes who decide what the law should be, would say is that anyone reduced to hitting a child with the intention of improving its behaviour within society is himself the core problem, and that the child has already been irremediably damaged by whatever crass upbringing it's already been subject to by the incapable parent.

That doesn't mean the law of England prevents such a useless toerag from hitting his child. It draws the line at what implement the child's hit with and whether the child needs hospital treatment as a consequence of the punishment. God alone knows what Mr Douglas feels his lad missed out on.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365308 wrote: He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his roomBullshit, oscar. I don't believe it happened, not for a second. I've reached the point that whatever you put forward as fact verified by your personal experience is instantly dismissible as propaganda.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365310 wrote: Bullshit, oscar. I don't believe it happened, not for a second. I've reached the point that whatever you put forward as fact verified by your personal experience is instantly dismissible as propaganda. Don't even try calling me a liar Spot. You are no more qualified on the subject than anyone else.

Your desire to appoint yourself as an authority on every subject discussed on this forum and your self Imposed superiority Is making you look a fool only you are so above your self, you can not see that. Your desire to put down anyone who seems to have had some real life experience In the world or may be a little wiser on a subject than you, Is showing you to be a bigot. Do tell us all Spot, how and why exactly do you seem to possess this attitude? Have you ever had a wayward teenager running with a gang? Have you found yourself In the situation where you are at your wits end to keep that child In the house... I doubt It very much. It is you who spouts the bullshit Spot In an almost daily abundance.

As It happens Spot, the Incident I related resulted In a complaint being submitted by the boys Father to the IPCC. Where you there? NO... There you go again, making assumptions about something you know bugger all about but dress It up In text book dictionary style warbling and you assume we are all Impressed.
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Post by spot »

Utter cobblers, woman. You just get shriller when you're called on a fatuity, and make up more and more in justification.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365313 wrote: Utter cobblers, woman. You just get shriller when you're called on a fatuity, and make up more and more in justification. I will post you the paperwork from the ensuing complaint by the boys Father to the IPCC should you wish. You don't wish do you Spot? As that would make you look even more a fool.

Your Insults show you to be just what you are... a little man looking for adoration on this forum. Maybe you need some counselling or professional help? Those who seek to put others down and gain pleasure from It often have an under-lying problem.
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oscar;1365314 wrote: I will post you the paperwork from the ensuing complaint by the boys Father to the IPCC should you wish.
Perhaps there's no need. You stated as fact that "He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his room". Does your paperwork confirm the IPCC gave that as a fact too? Because if you say it did then yes, I'll call you on it and look at the paperwork. My postal address, as you're well aware, is in my profile.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365316 wrote: Perhaps there's no need. You stated as fact that "He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his room". Does your paperwork confirm the IPCC gave that as a fact too? Because if you say it did then yes, I'll call you on it and look at the paperwork. My postal address, as you're well aware, is in my profile. The IPCC as It happens did not uphold my Brother In Law's complaint as they believed the officer was right In giving him a veral warning/

The Law Explored: abduction and false imprisonment - Times Online

Perhaps you should do some research Spot before the next thread when you dismiss out of hand, something, someone may have better knowledge of.
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Post by Ahso! »

From your link.

Parents are seldom found guilty of false imprisonment of their children because the sort of restraint imposed at home is usually well within the realms of what the law allows as “reasonable parental discipline”. But parental restraint can be unlawful where, for example, a parent stops a child from returning to residence of the person at which a court has ordered that the child shall live. A restraint on a child will also be unlawful if it is “outside the realm of reasonable parental discipline”.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365317 wrote: The IPCC as It happens did not uphold my Brother In Law's complaint as they believed the officer was right In giving him a veral warning/

The Law Explored: abduction and false imprisonment - Times Online

Perhaps you should do some research Spot before the next thread when you dismiss out of hand, something, someone may have better knowledge of.


The article's first paragraph gives it away: "English law governing this area has to be quite subtle, as there are many situations in which society quite reasonably wants to empower someone to keep another person against their will. Think of parents controlling young children".

If your paperwork confirms the IPCC found the officer said what you quoted him as saying then of course you're quite right that he said it. Does it provide confirmation of what you stated to be fact? I'll apologize unreservedly for calling you a liar if it does.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365321 wrote: The article's first paragraph gives it away: "English law governing this area has to be quite subtle, as there are many situations in which society quite reasonably wants to empower someone to keep another person against their will. Think of parents controlling young children".

If your paperwork confirms that the IPCC found the officer said what you quoted him as saying then of course you're quite right that he said it. Does it provide confirmation of what you stated to be fact? I'll apologize unreservedly for calling you a liar if it does.


Yes.

The officer agreed that he did warn my BIL that excessive use of force to place his son In his room could result In a common assault charge should his son make a formal complaint against his Father. He was also warned that to lock him In his room for excessive periods of time could break the boundaries of what would be considered ' reasonable discipline' He was warned that he could be arrested IF It was found he had used undue force or the period of Imprisonment was excessive. The IPCC believed the officer to right to warn him that he could face action If he broke those boundaries.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365323 wrote: Yes.

The officer agreed that he did warn my BIL that excessive use of force to place his son In his room could result In a common assault charge should his son make a formal complaint against his Father. He was also warned that to lock him In his room for excessive periods of time could break the boundaries of what would be considered ' reasonable discipline' He was warned that he could be arrested IF It was found he had used undue force or the period of Imprisonment was excessive. The IPCC believed the officer to right to warn him that he could face action If he broke those boundaries.


And you think that equates to "He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his room although It was only meant to be for a few minutes until he had calmed down", do you? As opposed to "excessive use of force"?

And that "for excessive periods of time" equates to "although It was only meant to be for a few minutes"?

Out of interest, does the paperwork use the word "imprisonment" in the section related to "The officer agreed"?

On a point of information, how young does "trying to stop his young son" mean?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365325 wrote: And you think that equates to "He was told by plod that he could be arrested for 'false Imprisonment' for locking his son In his room although It was only meant to be for a few minutes until he had calmed down", do you? As opposed to "excessive use of force"?

And that "for excessive periods of time" equates to "although It was only meant to be for a few minutes"?

Out of interest, does the paperwork use the word "imprisonment" in the section related to "The officer agreed"?

On a point of information, how young does "trying to stop his young son" mean?


As I did not go Into Intricate finer details of the event. the key word here Is ' COULD'. This was actually due to a dispute between Father and son at the time of just how long he was locked In his room. My BIL tried to re-assure the officer that he had fully Intended to keep his son In his room for a few minutes until he had calmed down. The Police listened to both sides from father and son before giving the warning.

I think you are missing the point entirely here. It seems the explanation that the officer gave the IPCC was to highlight to the Father, how excessive discipline should the Son make a formal complaint to police, that he could be arrested. If the son had made a formal complaint against his father, the police may have been duty bound to take my BIL In for questioning under caution. Weather It would have been followed through by the CPS Is another matter. Weather It would have stood up In court Is also another matter.
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Post by spot »

My initial howl of derision related to 'false Imprisonment', a word you've now repeated in your description of the IPCC paperwork. Out of interest, does the paperwork use the word "imprisonment" in the section related to "The officer agreed"?

On a point of information, how young does "trying to stop his young son" mean?
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Ahso!;1365318 wrote: From your link. Note the word 'Seldom' or did you miss that !!!
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spot;1365331 wrote: My initial howl of derision related to 'false Imprisonment', a word you've now repeated in your description of the IPCC paperwork. Out of interest, does the paperwork use the word "imprisonment" in the section related to "The officer agreed"?

On a point of information, how young does "trying to stop his young son" mean? The report agree's that the officer used the words 'False Imprisonment' also 'assault' during the verbal warning.

Are you asking the age of the son when I refer to 'young son' ? If so, he was 12 years old.

Rather than continue with the pedantic's Spot, a tactic you seem to use to assert your self Imposed authority, why not deal with the under-lying Issue here? That being your desire to pick apart any female poster on this forum unless they whole-heartedly agree with you or hang on your every word. This forum has been littered with your sardonic posts that any female who does not believe you are the oracle of all wisdom, are In your opinion talking rubbish. What exactly gives you the opinion that you are some-how qualified to speak on all matters with authority?

Surely a forum should be a place where people exchange views, life experiences or just a mere opinion? Why the constant need to attempt to belittle members here Spot? Because YOU think they are talking rubbish? It hardly attracts members to post more freely does It?
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365334 wrote: The report agree's that the officer used the words 'False Imprisonment' also 'assault' during the verbal warning.


I think I'd quite like to take you up on your offer to read it then, I'm fascinated to see how it compares with your initial statement of fact.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365340 wrote: I think I'd quite like to take you up on your offer to read it then, I'm fascinated to see how it compares with your initial statement of fact.
I have absolutely no problem In asking my BIL to post me his copy of the findings from the IPCC and pass those on with his permission.

Would you care to answer some of the questions I put to you? Or are the Irrelevant now? Maybe you care to swerve those questions?
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Post by Bruv »

Can I ask seriously what exactly is in dispute here ?

That some Policeman's statements were not correct.....legally?

That Oscar's recollection of the reported conversation are not correct ?



As an impartial observer, I would suggest in the heat of the moment, with all the emotions involved, the father's raised angry voice, the youth's compliance when confronted by old bill etc. etc. that the basic premise of the statement to be basically true.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Bruv;1365347 wrote: Can I ask seriously what exactly is in dispute here ?

That some Policeman's statements were not correct.....legally?

That Oscar's recollection of the reported conversation are not correct ?



As an impartial observer, I would suggest in the heat of the moment, with all the emotions involved, the father's raised angry voice, the youth's compliance when confronted by old bill etc. etc. that the basic premise of the statement to be basically true.


Exactly !!!!

Sometimes the voice of reason outweighs the desire to win the battle. :D
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365343 wrote: Would you care to answer some of the questions I put to you? Or are the Irrelevant now? Maybe you care to swerve those questions?They aren't merely irrelevant now, they were bogus from the word go. I'm still waiting for the thread to resume its previously even tenor. It was an interesting thread.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365354 wrote: They aren't merely irrelevant now, they were bogus from the word go. I'm still waiting for the thread to resume its previously even tenor. It was an interesting thread.
Let us look at the facts here Spot.

You post a thread.

A member relates a personal experience.

You post Insults.

You are then questioned as to why you prefer to pick posts to pieces rather than concentrate on the topic In hand.

You now bleat those questions are bogus, Irrelevant and express the desire to return the thread to resume Its previously even tenor.

I think the Americans call that 'a swerve' or In my neck of the woods, 'Cop out'.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by spot »

oscar;1365356 wrote: Let us look at the facts here Spot.

You post a thread.

A member relates a personal experience.

You post Insults.

You are then questioned as to why you prefer to pick posts to pieces rather than concentrate on the topic In hand.

You now bleat those questions are bogus, Irrelevant and express the desire to return the thread to resume Its previously even tenor.

I think the Americans call that 'a swerve' or In my neck of the woods, 'Cop out'.


Because I don't believe what you're claiming, I thought I'd mentioned that. I bet I don't get to see confirmation of your claim, too. And I'll report back to the thread in the event that I do. Meanwhile, we're discussing parental punishment as opposed to oscar fantasy land.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365362 wrote: Because I don't believe what you're claiming, I thought I'd mentioned that. I bet I don't get to see confirmation of your claim, too. And I'll report back to the thread in the event that I do. Meanwhile, we're discussing parental punishment as opposed to oscar fantasy land.


Another problem with those tiresome, self appointed authorities Is the endless need to be proved right In order to achieve some sort of smug satisfaction In their desire to win admiration and approval, despite the fact that they are not even In the Immediate area of the given experience. More often, many people suffering from this affliction have an Inner feeling of Inadequacy.

To base a statement that another Is 'lying' Is a contradiction In terms for It Is no more than assumption and an opinion on your part and the failure to understand that some people may not care for nor value your opinion.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Post by spot »

That's good then. I look forward to reading the paperwork. Meanwhile, as always, the thread is what it is and the readers will make of it what they choose.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365376 wrote: That's good then. I look forward to reading the paperwork. Meanwhile, as always, the thread is what it is and the readers will make of it what they choose.


Perhaps you need to register on this forum Spot?

are we right to lock up my out of control 14 year old daughter ?

Especially the post by the woman who's husband Is a youth worker and studied the legalities. Perhaps she's lying? I think you should take them to task.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

Protection Services

First paragraph.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365379 wrote: Protection Services

First paragraph.


How very American.

The way to know what English courts make of the forced imprisonment of children is to examine the cases they've dealt with. If you want me to search Lexis and bung out a few examples I can guarantee they'll not be about twelve year olds being locked into their bedroom by their parents to prevent their going out. A fifteen year old being coerced into an arranged marriage, yes. The trouble is you've no interest in listening, oscar. Time after time you've wafted off on these flights of misconception in otherwise interesting threads, it's a bore.

If you want to back up your opinion with fact I'll be delighted. Just make it relevant and factual and documented where we can access it instead of I remember.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Post by YZGI »

spot;1365381 wrote: How very American.

The way to know what English courts make of the forced imprisonment of children is to examine the cases they've dealt with. If you want me to search Lexis and bung out a few examples I can guarantee they'll not be about twelve year olds being locked into their bedroom by their parents to prevent their going out. A fifteen year old being coerced into an arranged marriage, yes. The trouble is you've no interest in listening, oscar. Time after time you've wafted off on these flights of misconception in otherwise interesting threads, it's a bore.

If you want to back up your opinion with fact I'll be delighted. Just make it relevant and factual and documented where we can access it instead of I remember.


How very American? This is your A #1 go to insult? How very Spottish.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365381 wrote: How very American.

The way to know what English courts make of the forced imprisonment of children is to examine the cases they've dealt with. If you want me to search Lexis and bung out a few examples I can guarantee they'll not be about twelve year olds being locked into their bedroom by their parents to prevent their going out. A fifteen year old being coerced into an arranged marriage, yes. The trouble is you've no interest in listening, oscar. Time after time you've wafted off on these flights of misconception in otherwise interesting threads, it's a bore.

If you want to back up your opinion with fact I'll be delighted. Just make it relevant and factual and documented where we can access it instead of I remember.


Relevant and factual? What a contradiction? Your opinion that an event did not take place Is relevant and factual now Is It ?

Do try not to keep contradicting yourself for It is churlish and It is you fact that is boring the pants off me.

On this subject, you have absolutely no Idea of what you are talking about. Dictionary text book warblings only further the theory that you endeavor to be proved right and do not actually add weight of any kind to your argument.

As I said prior, forums generally tend to be an exchange of members opinions and personal experience. That is members In the plural and not just yours. When you have had absolutely no experience of controlling a wayward teenager and subsequent encounters with plod due to his antics, It is ridiculous of you to even have a notion that you are an authority on the subject.
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Post by Oscar Namechange »

YZGI;1365383 wrote: How very American? This is your A #1 go to insult? How very Spottish.


High Five to Yzgi.
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Post by Ahso! »

YZGI;1365383 wrote: How very American? This is your A #1 go to insult? How very Spottish.I didn't read his response as an insult, I thought Spot merely pointed out that the provided link was related to American rather than English law.
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Post by spot »

oscar;1365384 wrote: As I said prior, forums generally tend to be an exchange of members opinions and personal experience. By all means find one which is. ForumGarden has repeatedly said over the last five years that it considers opinion an insignificant aspect of discussion here, that reasoned argument backed by verifiable fact is far more valuable and that seeking common ground is much more interesting than contention. I commend the notion.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by spot »

oscar;1365384 wrote: When you have had absolutely no experience of controlling a wayward teenagerDoes it not occur to you there's a reason for that? Competence and a sense of humour go a long way when it comes to parenting. Had I constructed a wayward teenager I'd have justifiably felt personally responsible for the failure.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Ahso! »

oscar;1365384 wrote: Relevant and factual? What a contradiction? Your opinion that an event did not take place Is relevant and factual now Is It ?

Do try not to keep contradicting yourself for It is churlish and It is you fact that is boring the pants off me.

On this subject, you have absolutely no Idea of what you are talking about. Dictionary text book warblings only further the theory that you endeavor to be proved right and do not actually add weight of any kind to your argument.

As I said prior, forums generally tend to be an exchange of members opinions and personal experience. That is members In the plural and not just yours. When you have had absolutely no experience of controlling a wayward teenager and subsequent encounters with plod due to his antics, It is ridiculous of you to even have a notion that you are an authority on the subject.Spot tries to raise the bar here in FG, and I personally appreciate his higher standards. I've gotten caught in it enough and have needed to try harder to be better at arguing. Arguing properly is a difficult task for most of us, including me, but I think I've become a better thinker for it and I appreciate the effort Spot puts into trying to help others represent themselves more clearly.

You're right that Spot's insistence in requiring better research of facts restricts who would like to be part of this forum, but for those of us wanting to better ourselves in the area of dialogue, I'll take a forum with a smaller active membership and quality conversation to busy, shallow forums. Those other forms of conversation is what places like FB, Wober and EA are for, IMO.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

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Parental punishment of children

Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365388 wrote: By all means find one which is. ForumGarden has repeatedly said over the last five years that it considers opinion an insignificant aspect of discussion here, that reasoned argument backed by verifiable fact is far more valuable and that seeking common ground is much more interesting than contention. I commend the notion.


No, that Is your opinion. In the past years of Forum Garden Spot, It has been YOU that considers opinion an Insignificant aspect of discussion.

There you go again with your ridiculous contradictions. Without members opinions there would be no forum. Let me give you an example of just how ridiculous you are being.

Member posts a piece of music and asks for discussion as to what others think of It. Some members post that they did not enjoy It due to their opinion that the guitarist could have played a little better. So that thread In effect Is finished according to you because members have opinions on the piece of music? How exactly would a member make ' verifiable fact ' that they had an opinion on the guitarist?

You are talking complete balderdash and pooycock.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by Oscar Namechange »

spot;1365389 wrote: Does it not occur to you there's a reason for that? Competence and a sense of humour go a long way when it comes to parenting. Had I constructed a wayward teenager I'd have justifiably felt personally responsible for the failure.


So you are now actually admitting that I was right and you have absolutely no Idea on this subject and contradicting yourself throughout. This post Is not factual evidence Is It? It is another of your opinions that your post prior stated had no part In factual debate.
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Parental punishment of children

Post by fuzzywuzzy »

I find anything that relates back to the enforced discipline of children by parents in a court of law many many many years after the fact as ridiculas. In this instance you have a young man who has been caught up in mob mentality in which any punishment as a child would have had no bearing at all.
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