The 20% tip diners are forced to pay: Top hotelier speaks out against 'daylight robbery' service charge | Mail Online
Don't know about you I've been out with a group where I've helped pay a service charge rather than cause a scene but on my own or with my wife I have absolutely no problem at all in refusing to pay a service charge if they add it to the billor try and get me to add it. The price was agreed before I ordered the meal and I object to someone trying to rip me off by adding charges, If I want to leave a tip I will but don't try blackmail. I don't tip taxi drivers either.
So what do you do? pay a service charge or tell them to get stuffed?
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
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Oscar Namechange
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The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
I like to give my own tip Ideally based on the service I have received.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
oscar;1421205 wrote: I like to give my own tip Ideally based on the service I have received.
Likewise. I detest being made to tip if, as gmc said, there is a charge allowed for on the bill
Likewise. I detest being made to tip if, as gmc said, there is a charge allowed for on the bill
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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AnneBoleyn
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The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
gmc, why don't you tip taxi drivers? Here, in NYC, the cabbie is, 99% of the time, leasing the cab from the owner, a large fee. Without tips many service workers work practically for free. I don't eat out or take cabs unless i can afford to tip.
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AnneBoleyn
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The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
Yes, here service charges added to a bill is starting to ease into our lives. I agree, I'd rather tip on my own, but it seems more & more folks do not tip.
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
AnneBoleyn;1421210 wrote: gmc, why don't you tip taxi drivers? Here, in NYC, the cabbie is, 99% of the time, leasing the cab from the owner, a large fee. Without tips many service workers work practically for free. I don't eat out or take cabs unless i can afford to tip.
For one thing taxi drivers earn more than I do. If they work for free in new York it's their problem.
The cost of salaries is built in to the pricing all you're doing is paying them again for something they have already been paid to do. Service workers should not be working for free all you do is allow the restaurants to pay crap wages and enhance their profits at the expense of the workforce. I do actually tip on occasion I'm not quite that mean but I consider it degrading both for the tipped and the tipper. Not an attitude, perhaps, that many would agree with. It allows workers to be exploited by the restaurants and bars they work in.
In the UK it is illegal for restaurants to take tips in to account when calculating wages, they have to pay at least the minimum wage. It's also illegal for an employer to keep tips for the business - so who gets the 20% service charge and why do it that way? If it is kept by the business it's a rip off and illegal and you have no way of knowing for sure. Bet we'd all like a 20% hike in profit. When times are tough people out up with employment conditions they otherwise would not. Why wants to work in an industry when you don't even know if you will make a living wage.
You're supposed to pay tax and NI on tips so cash in hand is actually better for the waiter or waitress. The argument that if they are distributed to kitchen staff as well it' rewards them may be valid but quite frankly I don't trust most restaurants.
My response when challenged for being mean in refusing to pay a service charge is if the owner can't work out his costing properly, including the cost of wages what's he doing running a business. Shuts them up pretty quickly.
A service charge is a kind of moral blackmail I find it offensive.
For one thing taxi drivers earn more than I do. If they work for free in new York it's their problem.
The cost of salaries is built in to the pricing all you're doing is paying them again for something they have already been paid to do. Service workers should not be working for free all you do is allow the restaurants to pay crap wages and enhance their profits at the expense of the workforce. I do actually tip on occasion I'm not quite that mean but I consider it degrading both for the tipped and the tipper. Not an attitude, perhaps, that many would agree with. It allows workers to be exploited by the restaurants and bars they work in.
In the UK it is illegal for restaurants to take tips in to account when calculating wages, they have to pay at least the minimum wage. It's also illegal for an employer to keep tips for the business - so who gets the 20% service charge and why do it that way? If it is kept by the business it's a rip off and illegal and you have no way of knowing for sure. Bet we'd all like a 20% hike in profit. When times are tough people out up with employment conditions they otherwise would not. Why wants to work in an industry when you don't even know if you will make a living wage.
You're supposed to pay tax and NI on tips so cash in hand is actually better for the waiter or waitress. The argument that if they are distributed to kitchen staff as well it' rewards them may be valid but quite frankly I don't trust most restaurants.
My response when challenged for being mean in refusing to pay a service charge is if the owner can't work out his costing properly, including the cost of wages what's he doing running a business. Shuts them up pretty quickly.
A service charge is a kind of moral blackmail I find it offensive.
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
AnneBoleyn;1421213 wrote: I agree, I'd rather tip on my own, but it seems more & more folks do not tip.
I spent many years in the food service industry, as a cook in high school, later as a chef and restaurant manager. Service is paramount. People can cook their own food. As a matter of fact, you can do it just as well and for less money. So why go out to eat at all?
It's about the experience.
That being said, here's some tips about tipping:
1. Try to tip at least 20% if the service was competent. Was the server pleasant? Were they attentive? Not too much intrusion, not too much time away? Did the empty dishes go away quickly? Did the drinks come quickly? Did the appetizer come before the salads? (depending on the restaurant, this might be reversed.) Did the salads come out timely? Was the entree served on time? (You can tell if it sat in the window by the temperature of the plate.) If so, tip well. Food service is an exhausting, complicated, and attention-saturated business. Don't expect fawning over you, you aren't the only one in the restaurant. A typical server is handling eight tables at once in a rush.
2. Don't blame food quality on the server. They didn't cook it. That said, make sure that you get what you ordered. Don't settle for overcooked meat. Go ahead and talk to the manager if your dinner is not right, you paid for it after all.
3. Don't piss off the restaurant staff BEFORE you get your food. It's just stupid. You wouldn't believe the things I've seen done to rude customers over the years. (Hint: one drop of Visine in a drink will give that person diarrhea for days.)
4. Do you think the staff will remember you if you tip well? You'd better believe it. You get stiffer drinks, better and quicker service, and loads of extras every time you show up. Waiters and waitresses talk to each other. On the flip side, if you don't tip or don't tip well....they remember that too.
5. Last of all, if you get surly service or really poor service, tip one penny...face down. It's the universal restaurant code for a slap in the face. Not only does the server have to pick it up to clean the table, it's a bad luck penny to boot. Don't use that trick unless you NEVER intend to visit that restaurant again.
I spent many years in the food service industry, as a cook in high school, later as a chef and restaurant manager. Service is paramount. People can cook their own food. As a matter of fact, you can do it just as well and for less money. So why go out to eat at all?
It's about the experience.
That being said, here's some tips about tipping:
1. Try to tip at least 20% if the service was competent. Was the server pleasant? Were they attentive? Not too much intrusion, not too much time away? Did the empty dishes go away quickly? Did the drinks come quickly? Did the appetizer come before the salads? (depending on the restaurant, this might be reversed.) Did the salads come out timely? Was the entree served on time? (You can tell if it sat in the window by the temperature of the plate.) If so, tip well. Food service is an exhausting, complicated, and attention-saturated business. Don't expect fawning over you, you aren't the only one in the restaurant. A typical server is handling eight tables at once in a rush.
2. Don't blame food quality on the server. They didn't cook it. That said, make sure that you get what you ordered. Don't settle for overcooked meat. Go ahead and talk to the manager if your dinner is not right, you paid for it after all.
3. Don't piss off the restaurant staff BEFORE you get your food. It's just stupid. You wouldn't believe the things I've seen done to rude customers over the years. (Hint: one drop of Visine in a drink will give that person diarrhea for days.)
4. Do you think the staff will remember you if you tip well? You'd better believe it. You get stiffer drinks, better and quicker service, and loads of extras every time you show up. Waiters and waitresses talk to each other. On the flip side, if you don't tip or don't tip well....they remember that too.
5. Last of all, if you get surly service or really poor service, tip one penny...face down. It's the universal restaurant code for a slap in the face. Not only does the server have to pick it up to clean the table, it's a bad luck penny to boot. Don't use that trick unless you NEVER intend to visit that restaurant again.
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AnneBoleyn
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The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
Excellent advice Saint_.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6632
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
For one thing taxi drivers earn more than I do. If they work for free in new York it's their problem.
Of course they don't work for free, but it is a tough way to earn a buck. The taxi fleet owners lease prices are through the roof, & you can't exactly buy your own medallion, not at a cost of $800,000. for an individual buyer. For those working in tandem to buy a medallion, the cost rises to one million US. That is why it has been an entry job for immigrants. In past decades, it was more possible for a family to buy the cab/medallion (the metal "license" to own a cab which is attached to the hood) & drive the cab 24/7 to make it into the middle-class. It gets harder & harder, & the Taxi & Limosine Commission in NY seems to work against the average driver.
Of course they don't work for free, but it is a tough way to earn a buck. The taxi fleet owners lease prices are through the roof, & you can't exactly buy your own medallion, not at a cost of $800,000. for an individual buyer. For those working in tandem to buy a medallion, the cost rises to one million US. That is why it has been an entry job for immigrants. In past decades, it was more possible for a family to buy the cab/medallion (the metal "license" to own a cab which is attached to the hood) & drive the cab 24/7 to make it into the middle-class. It gets harder & harder, & the Taxi & Limosine Commission in NY seems to work against the average driver.
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
I usually tip more than 20% if I go out to eat.
If I am with a large group and a gratuity is imposed, I leave only what they ask.
But I have simple needs. Keep the iced tea flowing and let me see you are keeping an eye on my table, I'm happy.:-6
If I am with a large group and a gratuity is imposed, I leave only what they ask.
But I have simple needs. Keep the iced tea flowing and let me see you are keeping an eye on my table, I'm happy.:-6
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
Interesting.
When I was in Britain, and Europe, last, I tried tipping, fairly often, and it was rather strange.
I had wait staff actually refuse to accept a tip.
Once I had coffee and a pastry at the hotel cafe, and left a coin on the table (half pound, I think)
The waitress chased me down and returned it to me. Said they did not take gratuities.
I also know, that, at least back then, there was no provision on the credit card slip for leaving a gratuity, and if you added something, the restaurant kept it.
I refuse to dine at a place that imposes a "service charge"
In the states, I tip fairly well, most of the time. usually around 20% and only reduce my tip when the staff is notably inept, or unfriendly.
I have been known to refuse to pay for a badly prepared meal, and then leave the waitron what would have been 20%, had I paid for the meal.
When I was in Britain, and Europe, last, I tried tipping, fairly often, and it was rather strange.
I had wait staff actually refuse to accept a tip.
Once I had coffee and a pastry at the hotel cafe, and left a coin on the table (half pound, I think)
The waitress chased me down and returned it to me. Said they did not take gratuities.
I also know, that, at least back then, there was no provision on the credit card slip for leaving a gratuity, and if you added something, the restaurant kept it.
I refuse to dine at a place that imposes a "service charge"
In the states, I tip fairly well, most of the time. usually around 20% and only reduce my tip when the staff is notably inept, or unfriendly.
I have been known to refuse to pay for a badly prepared meal, and then leave the waitron what would have been 20%, had I paid for the meal.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
The 20% tip diners are forced to pay
I usually tip around 15% for really good service which to me includes a genuine friendliness (not the manic sort of cheerfulness that some feign) as well as attentiveness & quick responsiveness. I don't think I've ever not tipped anyone but I can't remember ever receiving terrible service either.
Here's an interesting website dedicated to servers & perils of the trade. I had no idea there was so much drama in the restaurant industry on the part of the servers!
If You Can't Afford To Tip... -
Here's an interesting website dedicated to servers & perils of the trade. I had no idea there was so much drama in the restaurant industry on the part of the servers!
If You Can't Afford To Tip... -