Second hand smoke.

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spot
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Second hand smoke.

Post by spot »

metalstorm wrote: Second hand smoke is killing people.

Not!!!http://cancercontrol.cancer.gov/tcrb/monographs/10/

The estimates are at the end of the Executive Summary.

Just the heart risks alone, for non-smokers, beat car fatalities.
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SOJOURNER
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Second hand smoke.

Post by SOJOURNER »

Life is more comfortable for me when I am not around smokers.

When someone smokes in our house, or near me, I cough.

Coughing is not fun.

When it was acceptable for people to smoke everywhere, you would have thought I was a hardcore smoker myself the way I coughed.

I like the new order of NO SMOKING.

Would I like the air I breathe cleaned up more? Oh yes! However, improvements in living are made ONE STEP AT A TIME................
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

You should be free to smoke, just as I'm free to not like it.



I don't like anti-smoking legislation any more than you do.
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Second hand smoke.

Post by robinseggs »

In the next town, a no smoking law has gone into effect for all businesses. You should see all the lease/for sale signs going up on the main street. It is unreal! Now I don't smoke myself nor do I want to smell it while I am eating, but I do think the law should be amended...for example why not allow the smokers to smoke...say after a certain time? After 8 or 9 pm....and I myself am a lot more tolerant of the smoke at that time myself if I've had a drink or two!!!!
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observer1
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Second hand smoke.

Post by observer1 »

Being a smoker myself, I think these new laws are really going too far. I do however understand where the non-smoker is coming from. But what makes one person's rights any more important than another's? I don't smoke where I'm not supposed to. I even don't smoke around non-smokers where it IS permitted. I agree with the person who said places are going out of business. I think they could just have separate rooms in establishments. They're making us feel like leppars. Where are my freedoms??
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spot
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Second hand smoke.

Post by spot »

observer1 wrote: Being a smoker myself, I think these new laws are really going too far. I do however understand where the non-smoker is coming from. But what makes one person's rights any more important than another's? I don't smoke where I'm not supposed to. I even don't smoke around non-smokers where it IS permitted. I agree with the person who said places are going out of business. I think they could just have separate rooms in establishments. They're making us feel like leppars. Where are my freedoms??One of the basics of any system of permissive law (you can do anything that isn't illegal, as opposed to you can only do things that are expressly legal) is that you do no harm to others. The earlier health link shows the extent of damage caused to others by second hand smoke. Making it illegal to expose others is an extension of the area of the law that began with prohibiting murder. The question of where to draw the line is a matter for voters, if you think you live in a democracy.
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

I've got nothing against lepers. I was one myself. I can (grudgingly) understand and minimally support banning smoking in gov't buildings, but business is business. If a businessman chooses to woo a non-leper clientelle, I say go for it. But don't legislate the practice. If non-lepers don't want to be around lepers, let them find a different establishment.
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Second hand smoke.

Post by robinseggs »

observer1 wrote: Being a smoker myself, I think these new laws are really going too far. I do however understand where the non-smoker is coming from. But what makes one person's rights any more important than another's? I don't smoke where I'm not supposed to. I even don't smoke around non-smokers where it IS permitted. I agree with the person who said places are going out of business. I think they could just have separate rooms in establishments. They're making us feel like leppars. Where are my freedoms??


Places here have had separate smoking/non-smoking areas (even separate rooms) for years, and it just doesn't work out. The smoke eventually permeates an entire place and pretty quickly. The waitresses themselves may not want to be subjected to it either. Observer1, how would you feel about my earlier idea about smoking permitted after a certain time?
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Solodoe
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Solodoe »

SMOKING BLOWS!!

SOLODOE....:-3

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Ciao, Bella!
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Both of my parents smoked. I constantly kept bronchitis as a youngster, and now suffer from sinusitis.

My father died eleven years ago from lung cancer. My mother is dying from COPD.

I wish all smokers could hear how she struggles to breathe now. Just inhaling causes her to choke and gag. Any odor bothers her, including cooking. She must use oxygen 24/7, and can no longer care for herself, beyond an occasional burst of energy. Every winter, she winds up in the hospital.

Hospice has now stepped in, and it won't be long. My mother has a beautiful alto singing voice, but now can't complete a sentence, much less sing. She must work to force used air from her lungs, or it will turn into carbon dioxide, and wreck havoc upon her system.

I, for one, welcome the more stringent anti-smoking laws. Perhaps they will save one person the pain I am going through as my mom wastes away.
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abbey
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Second hand smoke.

Post by abbey »

Accountable;243100 wrote: You should be free to smoke, just as I'm free to not like it.



I don't like anti-smoking legislation any more than you do.Bless you, you non smoking love. :-4
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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

Smoking damages the health of non-smokers (including CHILDREN) around those who smoke. It stinks and it makes the clothing and hair of non-smokers stink, too. It causes allergic reactions in many people (including CHILDREN.)

Smokers are now a small minority.

Why should the non-smoking majority have to accomodate the addictions of that minority, when it endangers everyone's health?

(Ciao Bella, I watched someone I loved die of COPD, too. It's horrible! And, like you, I think everyone who smokes should spend time caring for someone who literally cannot breathe, no matter how much oxygen you pump into them.

I'm truly sorry about your dad--and now your mother! They probably would've argued for their "right" to smoke, despite the way it endangered those around them.)
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

Lulu2;539600 wrote:

Why should the non-smoking majority have to accomodate the addictions of that minority, when it endangers everyone's health?
Have to? They don't.

Why do so many non-smokers insist on making laws to ostracise them? That's more extreme in the other direction.
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Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Thank you, Lulu2. They did argue for their right to smoke, over our protests of how it bothered us.

Now, my mom regrets her actions, and weeps in fear of suffocating to death.
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Post by LilacDragon »

Lulu2;539600 wrote: Smoking damages the health of non-smokers (including CHILDREN) around those who smoke. It stinks and it makes the clothing and hair of non-smokers stink, too. It causes allergic reactions in many people (including CHILDREN.)

Smokers are now a small minority.

Why should the non-smoking majority have to accomodate the addictions of that minority, when it endangers everyone's health?

(Ciao Bella, I watched someone I loved die of COPD, too. It's horrible! And, like you, I think everyone who smokes should spend time caring for someone who literally cannot breathe, no matter how much oxygen you pump into them.

I'm truly sorry about your dad--and now your mother! They probably would've argued for their "right" to smoke, despite the way it endangered those around them.)


And yet it is NOT illegal to buy cigarettes and smoke them.

Why is it that your rights are so more important then mine?

My children are not sickly and the only allergies they suffer from is hayfever. They live in the same smoke filled house that I do and I have called in sick to work exactly ONCE in the last 9 years.

I am soo sick and tired of people tramping on my rights because theirs are so much more important.

And to top it off - the taxes I pay to the state for my pack of cigarettes is about the same as the price of the actual pack of cigarettes!! Why? To cover state health care costs! That I am not currently entitled to!

If the state wants to tax something to pay for something like healthcare then why can't they tax something that EVERYONE uses. Tax bread or milk. Since the taxes go to pay for the poor and unemployed that are on medicaid - then let them pay some of the tax burden too!

Sorry - but there sure as heck are other things that contribute to the pollution in the air besides the Marlboro that I just lit up. And judging from the number of cars that I sit behind at the corner of Crescent Lake Rd. and M-59 every single afternoon - I am thinking there are plenty of them puking exhaust into the air!

Heck, everyone is sure quick to jump on a smoker every time they light up - yet someone who drinks and actually kills someone on the way home is having a bad day if they actually see the inside of a courtroom!

Sorry - but it is really starting to tick me off when people start ranting and raving about how smokers are ruining the world.
Sandi



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Lulu2
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Post by Lulu2 »

(C'B, I hope it's not insensitive of me to say that, when the end is near, hospice will do everything they can to make her comfortable with morphine, etc. I was terrified of how it would be, but, finally, it was easy and he just slipped away. Someone should tell your mom about this.)

"Why do so many non-smokers... make laws to ostrasize them?" Nobody's OSTRASIZING...what we're doing is protecting ourselves and our children from their smoke. If that's extreme, I don't see it.

Here's an example...smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in cars when children are riders. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants, where they endanger other patrons and staff. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke on airplanes and in terminals and on other public vehicles.

Airlines quit serving PEANUTS to protect people with peanut allergies. Why should smoke be any different?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in cars when children are riders.




Then YOU make my car payment!

I pay for my car and I pay my rent. When you start paying those bills then you can tell me what to do in my car or my apartment.

Cigarettes have been around far longer then cars. Seems to me that now that we are soooo worried about germs and carrying our disinfectant wash around in our pockets - suddenly our children are sick all the time. Since we keep them in a sanitized world - it must be that smoke that is making them sick. Sure can't be because we have wrapped them in bubble wrap and prevented them from developing any immunities to anything!
Sandi



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Lulu2
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Post by Lulu2 »

You're not SERIOUSLY implying that exposure to more carcinogenic cigarette smoke would be good for children?

There are laws against child abuse.....smoking in the car while transporting a child is child abuse, and the law has interest in your child's welfare. Beating a child is illegal, too. Surely you don't propose that, because YOU pay the rent you have the right to treat the child any way you choose?

Read Ciao Bella's post.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Second hand smoke.

Post by SuzyB »

I totally agree that people shouldn't smoke around children, why should they have to breathe in the smoke, would these people give them a fag to smoke? :-5
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

I pay £5+ for a pkt of ciggies, that's almost $10 for 20!

The uk govt takes two thirds, they then have the gall to tell me when and when i cant smoke.

WTF. :confused:
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Post by Carl44 »

i respect your right to smoke though i think its a pretty dumb thing to do , even worse than drinking:rolleyes:

but i have a right to breath clean air in a public place without 2nd hand smoke in it , damaging whats left of my health, and lovely pinks when i do relent and let my 22 year old son smoke in my van on long journeys only , and then only one:mad: , my clothes stink of it even with the windows undone so it seems to me if kids were in the car and you were smoking they would breath 2 nd hand smoke in , even with the window undone:-3
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Post by LilacDragon »

Lulu2;539668 wrote: You're not SERIOUSLY implying that exposure to more carcinogenic cigarette smoke would be good for children?

There are laws against child abuse.....smoking in the car while transporting a child is child abuse, and the law has interest in your child's welfare. Beating a child is illegal, too. Surely you don't propose that, because YOU pay the rent you have the right to treat the child any way you choose?

Read Ciao Bella's post.


You are not seriously implying that I expose my child to as much carcinogenic material as he would inhale standing on a corner waiting for a light to turn green!

You are right - there are laws against abusing children and if you are going to charge a person for smoking in a car with a child then you had better start planning on charging other people for a few other crimes as well.

You can start with talking on your cell phone while driving with a child in the car. Then you can work your way down to starting a car with a child in, say, a 10 foot radius of said car.

Puleeze. For YEARS and YEARS people smoked with their kids in the car and the kids are FINE! My dad did it for the first 18 years of my life and here I am, FINE.

Take your children out of the bubble wrap - let them breathe the air and get dirty in the yard. Some exposure to some GERMS might just build up their immunities and they might not be sick all the time. That is what I did with my kids and they are pretty darn healthy.
Sandi



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LilacDragon
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Post by LilacDragon »

jimbo;539692 wrote: i respect your right to smoke though i think its a pretty dumb thing to do , even worse than drinking:rolleyes:

but i have a right to breath clean air in a public place without 2nd hand smoke in it , damaging whats left of my health, and lovely pinks when i do relent and let my 22 year old son smoke in my van on long journeys only , and then only one:mad: , my clothes stink of it even with the windows undone so it seems to me if kids were in the car and you were smoking they would breath 2 nd hand smoke in , even with the window undone:-3


IF cigarette smoke was the ONLY "dangerous" thing in the air - then I would concede your point. But between the crap that is belched out of manufacturing factories, cars, buses, trains, house fires and everything else out there - I seriously think that 2nd hand smoke is the least of your concerns. I know it is mine.
Sandi



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Lulu2
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Post by Lulu2 »

Yes, yes...I know. NOWHERE have I accused anyone of child abuse! Keep calm! Nor did I say it's the equivalent of beating a child.

What I have said is that cigarette smoke is bad for children and it's abusive to them to smoke when they're in the car with you or in the house with you. I'll maintain that forever. And I said the government has an interest in the welfare of your children and passes laws to protect them from many forms of abuse.

LD seems to think that because SHE didn't suffer the damage of second-hand smoke, nobody else's children will, either. Again, I suggest you read Ciao Bella's post on that subject.

And yes, my parents smoked and their friends smoked and most of them have died from tobacco-related conditions.

People who deny the harm done by tobacco smoke are in serious denial and it's interesting that they'll fight for the right to expose their children to it. And of course there is air-born pollution of other kinds and AREN'T WE TRYING TO GET RID OF IT, TOO?

Or are you suggesting we all just stick our heads in the proverbial sand and give up trying?
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Post by Carl44 »

not trying to argue with any one here but building up resistance to germs is fine by me , but if you expose kids to second hand smoke they are hardly gonna build up a resistance to lung cancer are they, :rolleyes: :o
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Post by Carl44 »

[quote=Pinky;539703]So don't let him then:confused:

I only smoke in permitted places, so if a non-smoker walks in, that's their hard luck I'm afraid. I don't even smoke in my own house because i live with a non-smoker. That's fair enough. I try and be considerate to non smokers. When I went to the midlands last year with my sister-in-law I didn't smoke all the way there because her daughter was in the car, yet she smokes around her in the house all the time. It just bugs me whn people go to places where they know smokers are going to be and then whine about it. I grew up with both parent's smoking, and even though I personally wouldn't make my kids breath my smoke (not that i have any kids) it still p1sses me off that people equate it to child abuse. Trust me, I have been in both situations and I know the difference, so don't even go there with arguing the point...well you can, but I'll argue against you all night![/quote]



no you wont:wah:
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Lulu2
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Post by Lulu2 »

Pinks...go back and read my two posts. I never said it's the same as a beating. You seem to be very considerate and careful as a smoker and I applaud you for that.

As your friend, I wish you'd stop smoking, of course....
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Peg
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Post by Peg »

Why not let business owners decide if they will have a smoking or non smoking place? They could post a sign on the door "This is a smoking facility. Enter at Your Own Risk". Everyone would have a choice.
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Post by Carl44 »

Pinky;539721 wrote: [quote=jimbo;539707]



Well, not you specifically Jim, but people who try to tell me I'm somehow subhuman for liking cigarettes. Trust me, I could argue all night!


no no not subhuman for smoking you do that without endangering others health thats your bizz , now hanging your ass out showing ya tatoo to every one that passes by in birmingham now thats subhuman:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
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abbey
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Post by abbey »





no you wont

:wah:

Yes she will! :wah:
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

abbey;539730 wrote: :wah:

Yes she will! :wah:




yes she never:wah:



how do you think i feel been drinking in pubs for 30 years , next morning hair and clothes stinking like an ash tray(ok hair whilst i had it for 5 years) then on the verge of every one having to stop smoking in pubs , the fraking doctor says i have to stop drinking where oh where is the justice in that:-5
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

Pinky;539737 wrote: Hehe, Abbey knows me!!:wah:


no she dont:cool:
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

Pinky;539751 wrote: Hang on, back in a sec, i really fancy a bacon and egg roll!
:yh_rotfl That tickled me.
Carl44
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Post by Carl44 »

almostfamous;539891 wrote: Ooook. I've read over everyone's posts and agree and disagree with the valid points of course. Let me start with I am a smoker, have been for 15 years now and I'm only 27. However, I do worry about my own health as I can tell during physical activities that my breathing can get a bit labored and of course, I would prefer not to die of emphysema like my grandmother did. Both of my grandfathers have it as well and it hurts to see them in so much pain, yet pain that they brought upon themselves.



In the posts that are anti-smoking, I didn't feel they were conveying illwill per say towards smokers more like an indirect way of saying, "i care about you". I don't see anything sanctimonious about anyone who tells me I should quit. I see them as giving a dang whether I live a full and happy/healthy life. Yes, I like to smoke, it's my vice as I don't drink anymore and have been drug-free for about 6 months now. But, I have tried to drop it like every other poison in my life. I dropped $1000 last year to go through a 9 week hypnosis program that obviously, didn't help. I've tried it all, the patches, the gum, nicotrol inhaler, wellbutrin, zyban. My next thought is going to be Chantix (sp?), my best friend is currently taking it and it's working so far.



I agree that restaurants should have the option of posting a sign stating whether the facility is smoking or NON. I doubt they would do this as it is much easier for the government to just say 'NO, no matter what you want to do with YOUR business that you invested YOUR money in, we make the rules'.



As for kids, I don't smoke around children, EVER. I think stating that the pollution outdoors is more deadly is a copout. You don't have control over those fumes and air pollutions but what you do have control over is the health of the ones you love. And, if you love them, you would want to be healthy for them and be an example. If this is a subject that makes you defensive, maybe this is an indirect result of guilt that you could be doing more to protect your own. Just a thought.


good post , a smoker that can get past the guilt thing that makes them so defensive , well done good point , i really enjoyed that :)
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abbey
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Post by abbey »

Pinky;539764 wrote: Just went and cooked my second one!:o

Agh, it's so nice when the yolk breaks and runs all over the bacon..*drool*
Bet you had a fag after your butty. :D
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Post by Carl44 »

Pinky;539957 wrote: Yeah, I did come to think of it!:wah:


i aint heard that for a while :o

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