Second hand smoke.

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Carl44
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Carl44 »

Pinky;539960 wrote: :lips:



Nooo, I will be good, I will not say anything!


i mean i aint had a bacon and egg butty , what the hell are you on about pinks:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Carl44
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Carl44 »

Pinky;539962 wrote: You're being mean to me jimbo!!!:wah:

And I'm trying so hard to be a good girl...how long d'ya think it'll last?:-3



(and yes, i'm having a ciggie out the window!)


honestly pinks you cant please all the people all the time , just dont worry



if you post i know its gonna be funny , it will probably be smutty but all in the best possible taste , if you dont like that dont read a pink post simple. me i post total crap i want escape from the pains of my life that get me down i want to laugh and joke if you dont like that dont read a jimbo post , coborst what a genius if i want a headache and want to be confused for 24 hours i read one of his posts i mean i wish i was clever enough to reply , he makes such good posts but i cant , if i see a wise guy post i zoom on it straight away i know he will be trying to have a laugh thats what i want , there is some one on here that only posts nasty stuff and wants to argue i dont so i avoid her posts its simple. posts what you want read what you want we can all coexist its simple really no one needs to leave just start a thread of what you want to talk about , dont expect every one else to develope ESP just to keep you amused :D :D
Carl44
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Carl44 »

almostfamous;539975 wrote: you make ME laugh :-4 :D


sue says that at bedtime:rolleyes:
Carl44
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Carl44 »

you guys are dragging me off track i want to talk about 2nd hand smoke:mad:



no just kidding its been bought to my attention that i have gone off track again but i'm sorry about that:o but pinky started it :wah: with her constant double meaning smutty talk or is just me thinking she means that:wah:
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

It's one thing to say people shouldn't smoke, something entirely different to call for the government to disallow them to smoke on private property.




smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in cars when children are riders.
Cars are private property. If you support this you support sending police into homes to arrest parents for smoking in the house.
Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants, where they endanger other patrons and staff.
The other patrons and staff choose to be there. If the owner chooses to make his enterprise non-smoking, through his own choice or through force of customer complaints, that's fine. It's not fine for the gov't to force such a rule through law.
Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke on airplanes and in terminals and on other public vehicles.
Same opinion as restaurants; however, the US gov't has forced their way into airports, making them defacto government buildings, so okay. But taxi drivers are also smokers and non-smokers, and should be able to dictate their own policies.
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LilacDragon
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Second hand smoke.

Post by LilacDragon »

If smoking and second hand smoke are so bad that the government feels the need to regulate where you can and can not do it - up to and including on private property - why not go alll the way and make it illegal?

Could it be that the government makes too much money off of smokers and the tobacco industry?

Guns and drunk drivers kill people too. Not only are guns legal, but it seems that it gets easier and easier in some places for people to get concealed weapons permits. Judging from the murder rates and violent crime rates - criminals certainly aren't having any trouble getting their hands on guns. As for drunk drivers - unless they kill someone in a spectacular manner, the chances of them doing any serious jailtime if they kill someone is slim.

And just try banning drinking from places! I can't have a cigarette on an international flight but I have to listen to some loud drunk for 8 hours!?! And the flight attendant GAVE them the alcohol to get that way!
Sandi



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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

"And just try banning drinking from places! I can't have a cigarette on an international flight but I have to listen to some loud drunk for 8 hours!?! And the flight attendant GAVE them the alcohol to get that way!"

++++++++++++ Somehow, I doubt that breathing the drunk's breath or listening to him will compromise your health or that of someone else on the plane. Smokers just have no idea how many people are allergic to their fumes or who suffer from breathing problems which are worsened by second-hand smoke.

ACCOUNTABLE...the government certainly has no right to prohibit YOUR PERSONAL smoking. However, it IS right to protect those people around smokers. Period.

You're not allowed to drive drunk and you're not allowed to blow smoke in my face.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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LilacDragon
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Second hand smoke.

Post by LilacDragon »

Lulu2;540089 wrote:

++++++++++++ Somehow, I doubt that breathing the drunk's breath or listening to him will compromise your health or that of someone else on the plane. Smokers just have no idea how many people are allergic to their fumes or who suffer from breathing problems which are worsened by second-hand smoke.


You know what - you are probably right.

And I am sure that the man who lost his wife and three sons to a drunk driver while on their way to the dentist on a weekday afternoon is much more concerned about second hand smoke too.

I'm done. You are right - everyone else's rights are much more important then mine - after all, I smoke!
Sandi



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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

Nobody said you don't have the right to smoke, LD! Smoke all you wish (although I'm sorry that you're ruining your future health.) What you DON'T have is the right to impose that smoke on me or my child--in any way.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

Lulu2;540089 wrote: ACCOUNTABLE...the government certainly has no right to prohibit YOUR PERSONAL smoking. However, it IS right to protect those people around smokers. Period.



You're not allowed to drive drunk and you're not allowed to blow smoke in my face.
Roads are publicly owned. Restaurants are not.
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

Lulu2;540108 wrote: Nobody said you don't have the right to smoke, LD! Smoke all you wish (although I'm sorry that you're ruining your future health.) What you DON'T have is the right to impose that smoke on me or my child--in any way.
And vice versa.
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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

And who "owns" the air? You know I'm an ARDENT civil libertarian! Just as it's illegal to scream "FIRE" in a "private" building and endanger the people who're inside, it's becoming illegal to endanger the health of those who are sharing the space, too.

If you're arguing the "slippery slope" idea, you MAY have a valid point....but the dangers of second hand smoke are clear and I'll support laws which protect children and adults from it, just as I'll protect them from drugs in the workplace or sexual harassment, etc.

"What you DON'T have is the right to impose that smoke on me or my child--in any way.

And vice versa."

+++++++++++++ Are you saying a smoker DOES have the right to impose second-hand smoke on me or my child? :confused:
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

Lulu2;540130 wrote: And who "owns" the air? You know I'm an ARDENT civil libertarian! Just as it's illegal to scream "FIRE" in a "private" building and endanger the people who're inside, it's becoming illegal to endanger the health of those who are sharing the space, too. You're ardent only for yourself, seldom for others. I've read many of your opinions.



Lulu2 wrote: If you're arguing the "slippery slope" idea, you MAY have a valid point....but the dangers of second hand smoke are clear and I'll support laws which protect children and adults from it, just as I'll protect them from drugs in the workplace or sexual harassment, etc.I'm arguing for the rights of businessmen to run their businesses. You don't want to go into a smokefilled place? Don't go there. If you want to prohibit others from smoking there, put pressure on the owner, not the politician. That's the American way.



Lulu2 wrote: "What you DON'T have is the right to impose that smoke on me or my child--in any way.



And vice versa."



+++++++++++++ Are you saying a smoker DOES have the right to impose second-hand smoke on me or my child? :confused:I'm saying you don't have the right to impose your wishes on another citizen just because you don't like what they do.
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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

And I'll totally agree with you....as long as those "wishes" don't involve the health of innocent bystanders.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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LilacDragon
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Second hand smoke.

Post by LilacDragon »

Lulu2;540130 wrote: And who "owns" the air? You know I'm an ARDENT civil libertarian! Just as it's illegal to scream "FIRE" in a "private" building and endanger the people who're inside, it's becoming illegal to endanger the health of those who are sharing the space, too.

If you're arguing the "slippery slope" idea, you MAY have a valid point....but the dangers of second hand smoke are clear and I'll support laws which protect children and adults from it, just as I'll protect them from drugs in the workplace or sexual harassment, etc.

"What you DON'T have is the right to impose that smoke on me or my child--in any way.

And vice versa."

+++++++++++++ Are you saying a smoker DOES have the right to impose second-hand smoke on me or my child? :confused:


I wouldn't dream of exposing you or your child to my smoke. BUT - as a non-smoker, you have the right to avoid places where smokers are smoking. If you don't like smoke, then go to a smoke free restaraunt or whatever.

And why the heck is it that you are soooo willing to support laws which protect adults and children from second hand smoke but are completely willing to discount other forms of air pollution?
Sandi



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Peg
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Peg »

It annoys me to no end when people tell me "Smoking is bad for your health". Like I don't KNOW that! The more people tell me I shouldn't smoke, the more I want to smoke. I usually reply, "Me not smoking is even more dangerous to YOUR health". :wah:
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

almostfamous;540191 wrote: I deem it dangerous as well. If I haven't had my regularly scheduled smoke, I'm a pill. But, your own health is one thing, what about others, what about your children? What is the logic behind making your own nicotine fit cause others to suffer?
:wah: I hope you limbered up before making such a stretch. You could hurt yourself. :D
Ciao, Bella!
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Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Lulu2;539655 wrote: (C'B, I hope it's not insensitive of me to say that, when the end is near, hospice will do everything they can to make her comfortable with morphine, etc. I was terrified of how it would be, but, finally, it was easy and he just slipped away. Someone should tell your mom about this.)

"Why do so many non-smokers... make laws to ostrasize them?" Nobody's OSTRASIZING...what we're doing is protecting ourselves and our children from their smoke. If that's extreme, I don't see it.

Here's an example...smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in cars when children are riders. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants, where they endanger other patrons and staff. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke on airplanes and in terminals and on other public vehicles.

Airlines quit serving PEANUTS to protect people with peanut allergies. Why should smoke be any different?


Lulu2, you're fine. Even though it hurts to know I'm losing my mom, I strive to be practical about such things, else I'd never stop crying! Hospice helped her with my dad, and were so wonderful, she's looking forward to the time she spends with them. Isn't that strange?

It's time. Mom is tired, and I want her suffering to end.
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Lulu2
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Lulu2 »

Good. It'll be a good thing for everyone. I'm really sorry!
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Ciao, Bella!
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Ciao, Bella! »

Thanx, Lulu2. I truly appreciate that.
ARgi
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Second hand smoke.

Post by ARgi »

Lulu2;539655 wrote: (C'B, I hope it's not insensitive of me to say that, when the end is near, hospice will do everything they can to make her comfortable with morphine, etc. I was terrified of how it would be, but, finally, it was easy and he just slipped away. Someone should tell your mom about this.)

"Why do so many non-smokers... make laws to ostrasize them?" Nobody's OSTRASIZING...what we're doing is protecting ourselves and our children from their smoke. If that's extreme, I don't see it.

Here's an example...smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in cars when children are riders. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke in bars and restaurants, where they endanger other patrons and staff. Smokers shouldn't be allowed to smoke on airplanes and in terminals and on other public vehicles.

Airlines quit serving PEANUTS to protect people with peanut allergies. Why should smoke be any different?


well that saves me the trouble of posting, thanks :driving:
RhondaLu
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Second hand smoke.

Post by RhondaLu »

good posting LULU

The Basics

The high cost of smoking



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These days, smoking can even cost you your job, not to mention the expense of cigarettes, dry cleaning and insurance. But a 40-year-old pack-a-day smoker who quits and puts the savings into a 401(k) earning 9% a year will have $250,000 by age 70.

By Hilary Smith

If the threat of cancer can't convince you to quit smoking, maybe the prospect of poverty will.

The financial consequences of lighting up stretch far beyond the cost of a pack of cigarettes. Smokers pay more for insurance and lose money on the resale value of their cars and homes. They spend extra on dry cleaning and teeth cleaning. Long term, they earn less and receive less in pension and Social Security benefits. And now, being a smoker can not only mean you don't get hired -- you can get fired, too: Weyco Inc., a medical benefits administrator in Okemos, Mich., after announcing it would no longer employ smokers, fired four employees who refused to submit to a breath test.

The American Civil Liberties Union’s (ACLU) National Workrights Institute estimates that more than 6,000 companies refuse to hire smokers. A few examples:



Kalamazoo Valley Community College in Michigan stopped hiring smokers for full-time positions at both its Michigan campuses;

Alaska Airlines, based in Washington State, requires a nicotine test before hiring people;

The Tacoma-Pierce County (Wash.) Health Department has applicants sign an "affidavit of nontobacco use;"

Union Pacific won’t hire smokers.

The costs don’t stop with your paycheck. New CDC figures assert that smokers cost the economy nearly $94 billion yearly in lost productivity. An additional $89 billion is estimated spent on public and private healthcare combined. The Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids Taxpayers says each American household spends $596 a year in federal and state taxes due to smoking.

Some of these numbers are disputed, however, by the Bureau of National Affairs which says 95% of companies banning smoking report no financial savings and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce which finds no connection between smoking and absenteeism.

Start with the obvious

According to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, the cost of a pack averages $4.32, with the highest prices in Maine ($6.46) and New Jersey ($6.06) and the lowest in Missouri ($3.33).

Using this number, a pack-a-day smoker burns through about $30.24 per week, or nearly $1,600 per year. That's a fat house payment or a nice vacation with the family. A 40-year-old who quits smoking and puts the savings into a 401(k) earning 9% a year would have an extra $250,000 by age 70.

But only you know exactly how much you pay and how often. Plug your yearly tally into our Savings Calculator

and see what it'll cost you over the coming decades.

The one place many smokers feel free and comfortable to light up is in their car. Without consistent and thorough cleanings, however, a car that is smoked in will soon start to resemble an ashtray on wheels. The interior will inevitably smell like smoke, and stray ashes and butts can burn holes in the upholstery and floor mats.

None of these things has much financial impact until you try to sell the car. Figure a minimum of $150 for a good cleaning with an extractor.

On a trade-in, dealers can easily knock off more than $1,000 on higher-end vehicles like vans, SUVs and expensive sport-types. Terry Cooper, a car dealer with seven new- and used-car stores, says he took a 1999 Porsche 911 Cabriolet in on trade for $37,000. That sounds OK, but the previous owner could have fetched $40,000 for it had he not "smoked out" the car's interior.

The criteria that apply to cars apply to homes as well, only on a bigger scale.

Smokers' houses often require all new paint and/or wall treatments, as well as professional drapery and carpet cleaning. According to Contractors.com, priming and painting an average-size living room, dining room and two bedrooms would cost around $2,100. The Carpet Buying Handbook puts the average cleaning cost per square foot at 28 cents, and the average home has 1,000 square feet of carpet. That's $280. Add $55 to clean a typical sofa and $25 for a chair, says Diversified Carpet in San Diego.

Walt Molony with the National Association of Realtors says that "certainly the smell of cigarettes can be a turn-off to potential buyers," but he also notes that it is less of a problem in tight housing markets.

The insurers weigh in, and they're not happy

We pulled some online quotes on 20-year term life insurance (a $500,000 policy) for a healthy 44-year-old male through BudgetLife.com. The range for a non-smoker was $695 to $ 2,250 in premiums per year; for someone smoking a pack a day, the prices skyrocketed to as much as $4,495 per year.

The difference in health insurance isn't as dramatic. According to eHealthInsurance.com, the monthly premium for a policy from Regence Blue Shield with a $1,500 deductible for a 44-year-old male nonsmoker is $198. The same policy for a smoker is $229 per month. He will pay nearly $372 more per year.

A few state governments also charge their employees extra for health insurance if they smoke, and others are gradually joining the trend. West Virginia, Georgia, Kentucky and Alabama charge state employees who smoke a surcharge; in Georgia, for example, that surcharge is an additional $40 per month.

According to the ACLU, a majority of states do not have a state law preventing employers from discriminating against potential and current employees based on non-work related activities. There are at least 21 states that do have laws that protect smokers, including Colorado and North Dakota, which ban discrimination based on any form of legal, off-duty behavior.

When shopping for homeowners insurance, nonsmokers can generally expect to receive a minimum 10% discount, according to Ray Neumiller, an agent with Farmer's Insurance in Seattle.

The insurer's point of view: Smokers burn down houses.

The most common homeowners insurance policies range from approximately $290 to $900 per year, depending on the home's location. With the discount, a non-smoker would realize savings of at least $30, but most likely more.

Benefits unclaimed, wages lost

Few people set out to cut their life short, but smokers greatly increase their chances of dying sooner than nonsmokers. In his book, "The Price of Smoking," Frank A. Sloan, director of the Center for Health Policy, Law and Management at Duke University in Durham, N.C., details the financial impact of a shorter life span on retirement benefits.

"Smokers, due to higher mortality rates, obtained lower lifetime benefits compared to never smokers, even after accounting for their smoking-related lower lifetime contributions," the research says.

Sloan and his colleagues found the effects of smoking on lifetime Social Security benefits were $1,519 for 24-year-old female smokers and $6,549 for 24-year-old male smokers. Essentially this is money paid into Social Security but never collected because the beneficiary died prematurely of a smoking-related illness.

"You could be paying into Social Security year after year, and if you die at 66 because you're a smoker, it's money down the drain," says Sloan.

Numerous studies find that smokers earn anywhere from 4% to 11% less than nonsmokers. It's not just a loss of productivity to smoke breaks and poorer health that takes a financial toll, researchers theorize; smokers are perceived to be less attractive and successful as well.

Keeping up appearances

Bad breath, yellow teeth and smelly clothes are just a few of the personal side effects of smoking, and all cost money to correct.

An extra pack of mints or gum a week adds up to about $50 per year. Need your teeth whitened once a year? Brite Smile, which has offices across the country, retails its service for around $600. Most professional-grade teeth whitening products retail for a minimum of $200.

Dry-cleaning bills are likely to be higher also. Clean that suit one extra time a month at a cost of $12 and there goes another $144.
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

RhondaLu;540447 wrote:

The American Civil Liberties Union’s (ACLU) National Workrights Institute estimates that more than 6,000 companies refuse to hire smokers. A few examples:


I wonder how many of those companies the ACLU sued on behalf of the smokers. :yh_think Probably none, but that's a conversation for another thread.
RedGlitter
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Second hand smoke.

Post by RedGlitter »

Presumably they refused to hire them because smokers use more sick days than nons, therefore the reliability factor which a business must consider. As long as they can smoke outside I wouldn't care other than the fact they usually stink when coming back in.
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Accountable
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Second hand smoke.

Post by Accountable »

My employer hires smokers, but they make it crystal clear that there is no smoking on the property, not in the building, outside, parking lot, nowhere. The insurance company gives them big breaks for it so they comply. Being a private company, they have every right to allow or disallow smoking.

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