Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

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kazalala
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by kazalala »

spot;1313662 wrote: I suppose we could introduce licencing for buying petrol. And paraffin. And wood too, wood's inflammable.

On the other hand the events in Whitehaven suggest that licencing isn't altogether effective. What might genuinely deal with fireworks is adequate surveillance of the public en masse by the police. Immediate guaranteed arrest and prosecution would deter even idiots. Mind you, even guaranteed arrest and prosecution wouldn't have stopped Whitehaven - to stop that you'd need to bring in a total ban, neither licencing nor detection had any effect there. Adequate surveillance might have. An inability to acquire firearms would have. Licencing didn't and nor did any threat of deterrence.

So, shall we try a total ban on petrol, paraffin and wood?


spot,,, eee you make me laugh you do :yh_rotfl going off on tangents about petrol etc tut:p

the fireworks thing in my opinion is different and should be addressed and i happen to agree that they should be exclusively for organised events. After all the people organising events will have to adhere to health and safety rules etc,, and yet any tom dick or spot can go in to a shop and buy fireworks to let off in their garden with freinds and neighbours present and of course children,, mad.

Its a money making oppurtunity for retailers and the government alike and thats why its allowed, while wet t shirt competitions are stoppped for health and safety reasons:rolleyes:or taxis cant put flags on cars etc,, bet your botom dollar if the councils were making money from the flags it would be fine:D




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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by G#Gill »

You're at it again spot! Trying to derail a thread about FIREWORKS, it's not about petrol, paraffin or wood ! Or even that terrible shooting rampage in Cumbria!

I agree with Kaz, that it's all about money! It seems that authorities couldn't care less about the anti-social side of things. Your idea, spot, about extra surveillance by the police would curtail much of the nasty activities of the yobs, however, where are we going to get the extra police from? Who will find the extra money to pay for this extra surveillance? It would be difficult to sort out the finances for such projects if we weren't in a recession ! :rolleyes:

Ban the sale of fireworks to the general public, over the shop counter, I say! That would sort out this problem.
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Post by Peter Lake »

G#Gill;1313684 wrote: You're at it again spot! Trying to derail a thread about FIREWORKS, it's not about petrol, paraffin or wood ! Or even that terrible shooting rampage in Cumbria!

I agree with Kaz, that it's all about money! It seems that authorities couldn't care less about the anti-social side of things. Your idea, spot, about extra surveillance by the police would curtail much of the nasty activities of the yobs, however, where are we going to get the extra police from? Who will find the extra money to pay for this extra surveillance? It would be difficult to sort out the finances for such projects if we weren't in a recession ! :rolleyes:

Ban the sale of fireworks to the general public, over the shop counter, I say! That would sort out this problem.
I see the relevance in Spot's post and i believe what he's saying is that as fireworks are imflamables, should they be regulated, then perhaps all imflamables should be regulated. Arson, be it by firework, petrol, paraffin or wood is, arson. If you were to ban fireworks simply as a deterent against arson, then Spot is right in saying, how far would you have to go to avoid arson in the whole? By banning anything imflamable such as petrol or wood. It's the same as saying that because a Mercedes car has attributed to road deaths, banning all cars off the road is the only answer to saving further road deaths.

I agree that fireworks should be limited to public display only and i believe that we do need tougher laws on the sale of fireworks. They're too readily available over the counter and just as kids get round buying drink, they get round buying fireworks. If anyone believes the laws don't need tightening up then they've never suffered the misery of them in the hands of the irresponsible. Where i live, police often have to attend kids and teenagers on the side of a road throwing lit fireworks at passing cars for fun. It only takes once for a lit firework to go through an open car window with a baby in the back and you have a tragedy and i'm sure the kids would protest they were only having a bit of fun. If they were sold only around new years eve or November 5th, i'd have no objections but where i live, they're going off every month sometimes into the small hours.

I believe that in any case of reckless use of fireworks, the law should be far harsher and I also believe this law should apply to any shop owner found to be recklessly selling them. I'm not sure how this could be policed but a possible idea could be for suppliers to stamp a code onto the fireworks before they're dispatched to the retail outlet. At least then, by the debris, they could be traced back to the seller and police could check cctv camera's to see who they were sold to.
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by spot »

And yet petrol, paraffin and wood are used to unlawfully kill far more people than fireworks are. I needn't mention licenced firearms in that sentence. You neither of you seem concerned with risk, solely with the unsavory class of killer who wields different lethal materials. Estate yobs with fireworks bad, middle-class housewives with paraffin topping detested husbands in sheds good and the number of homes torched with petrol during community disputes bothers nobody. Let's face it, this isn't any longer a firework thread, it's an anti-yob thread.

As for effective police surveillance, the cost is unimportant. What matters is that it's getting cheaper by the decade and eventually, the sooner the better, it'll arrive and we can all breathe easier.
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Post by kazalala »

spot;1313717 wrote: And yet petrol, paraffin and wood are used to unlawfully kill far more people than fireworks are. I needn't mention licenced firearms in that sentence. You neither of you seem concerned with risk, solely with the unsavory class of killer who wields different lethal materials. Estate yobs with fireworks bad, middle-class housewives with paraffin topping detested husbands in sheds good and the number of homes torched with petrol during community disputes bothers nobody. Let's face it, this isn't any longer a firework thread, it's an anti-yob thread.

As for effective police surveillance, the cost is unimportant. What matters is that it's getting cheaper by the decade and eventually, the sooner the better, it'll arrive and we can all breathe easier.


As far as I am concerned this is not an anti yob thread it is about fireworks, and not petrol, paraffin or wood. Its not about the type of things that are able to kill,, its about fireworks and the fact they are dangerous in my opinion and should be available only to event organisers. If you want to talk about paraffin etc and keep taking the thread off topic then go ahead, i dont mind. You could even start a thread up about such things if its important to you we discuss it:thinking:just a thought:)




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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by Peter Lake »

spot;1313717 wrote: And yet petrol, paraffin and wood are used to unlawfully kill far more people than fireworks are. I needn't mention licenced firearms in that sentence. You neither of you seem concerned with risk, solely with the unsavory class of killer who wields different lethal materials. Estate yobs with fireworks bad, middle-class housewives with paraffin topping detested husbands in sheds good and the number of homes torched with petrol during community disputes bothers nobody. Let's face it, this isn't any longer a firework thread, it's an anti-yob thread.

As for effective police surveillance, the cost is unimportant. What matters is that it's getting cheaper by the decade and eventually, the sooner the better, it'll arrive and we can all breathe easier. Any death bothers me Spot and i see your point. Do we ban glass because a woman ground it up, put it in her husbands food and killed him, as an example?

Children as in most aspects of life need to be educated by responsible parents into the dangers of fireworks when they are very young as i was, and as i educated my children about the dangers of them.
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Post by spot »

Peter Lake;1313719 wrote: Do we ban glass because a woman ground it up, put it in her husbands food and killed him
Hush, you bedoit creature, this thread's about fireworks, can't you read the Trespassers William?
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Post by kazalala »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:





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Post by spot »

kazalala;1313723 wrote: :rolleyes::rolleyes:




As it happens I disagree profoundly with her "children as in most aspects of life need to be educated by responsible parents into the dangers of fireworks when they are very young" bit. Children should be brought up in state creches from birth and not let loose on the world until they reach the age of discretion. That solves your firework problem too.
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kazalala;1313672 wrote: spot,,, eee you make me laugh you do :yh_rotfl going off on tangents about petrol etc tut:p



the fireworks thing in my opinion is different and should be addressed and i happen to agree that they should be exclusively for organised events. After all the people organising events will have to adhere to health and safety rules etc,, and yet any tom dick or spot can go in to a shop and buy fireworks to let off in their garden with freinds and neighbours present and of course children,, mad.

Its a money making oppurtunity for retailers and the government alike and thats why its allowed, while wet t shirt competitions are stoppped for health and safety reasons:rolleyes:or taxis cant put flags on cars etc,, bet your botom dollar if the councils were making money from the flags it would be fine:D
They outlawed wet t-shirt competitions? Wow you guys are going to hell in a handbasket. Us Americans love wet titties and will fight to keep and bare them to the end. You will have to rip my wet titties from my dead cold hands!!!!!:D
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spot;1313729 wrote: As it happens I disagree profoundly with her "children as in most aspects of life need to be educated by responsible parents into the dangers of fireworks when they are very young" bit. Children should be brought up in state creches from birth and not let loose on the world until they reach the age of discretion. That solves your firework problem too.
omg you kill me:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

:thinking:actually it wouldnt solve the firework problem either though as its not just chidern that are irresponsible is it,, some adults shouldnt be allowed to hold a lighter let alone a firework:rolleyes:

YZGI;1313732 wrote: They outlawed wet t-shirt competitions? Wow you guys are going to hell in a handbasket. Us Americans love wet titties and will fight to keep and bare them to the end. You will have to rip my wet titties from my dead cold hands!!!!!:D


erm i dont like the sound of that:-3:D




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spot;1313729 wrote: As it happens I disagree profoundly with her "children as in most aspects of life need to be educated by responsible parents into the dangers of fireworks when they are very young" bit. Children should be brought up in state creches from birth and not let loose on the world until they reach the age of discretion. That solves your firework problem too. I take it by what was no doubt a deliberate attempt to bait yet again that you are implying these posts were written by my wife? To save further continuous attempts on your behalf, let's set the record straight here shall we?

You seem to have some amusing notion that anyone banned on this forum suffers from Spot withdrawal symtoms and can't possibly carry out a normal existence without posting on forum garden. Here's the deal Spot. Everyone on this forum with the exception of a few is on facebook with my wife. There, she can talk to them in private or as many do, post links and discuss topics. Some of the few who are here but not on facebook e mail my wife as does she them. In conclusion, there's absoutely no need for her to come here when she can talk to just about everyone when she likes on another site. Further to this, should she feel the need to post on topics with or without members from here, she has her own forum on 24 forums that everyone is aware of and can pop in to post with her should they wish.

To save you the time of checking spelling differences and similar views of my wife and i, let me also explain that there are four computers in this house with different ip addresses. Should she be suffering from forum garden withdrawal, she could also open a new account any time she liked and post. The fact is, she has no need as she is in daily contact with the people here who matter to her on facebook or by e mail. It's perfectly natural that my wife and i share similar views given that we've been married many years and spend most of our time together and i believe that's what is classed as a happy marraige?

Given that the only reason she ever stumbled across forum garden was due to you in the first place, i'm sure her life has continued without forum garden as it did before our local newspaper had no choice but to offer her a financial settlement for the libel of which they wrote of her trial.

As i was a member here long before my wife was banned, i have come here regually, not posting much but to read threads. Over my time here, i have noticed that few are posting new threads and many members have disappeared entirely so much so that one member even posted a thread wondering where the sparkle of forum garden has gone. From my observations, it seems moderators now far exceed posters. For example, the mother of my wife's nephews child very recently wanted to post on the thread about the nephews trial, yet even though she was a member here, she felt that should she do so, she would've had you coming at her accusing her of being my wife. I myself have thought about closing my account by your constant inferences that this is my wife posting in my account or that we're sharing the account. Even myself, given the computer and ip situation in our house, could open another account in another user name should i wish.

So, i am not closing my account because of you Spot and i'm going to continue to post should i wish. If you have any accusations to make then i suggest you pop over to 24 forum and make them directly to my wife as i'm sure she will give you a warm welcome and some kind words in return. If you wish, you could even go to Stormfront forum. and chat with her and the other Nazi's there. No doubt you'll fare well there.

It's very sad to see what was once a lively forum with great individual characters now becoming a ghost ship so maybe you'll think of that.

One thing may stand out in this thread that would make it impossible to have been written by wife. Hell would have to absolutely freeze solid before she ever read one of your posts in it's entirity let alone see any relevance in it or agree with you on any subject in this universe as i did. Thinking further, she'd also never be able to resist the temptation to have a pop at gmc if she was writing on this forum as that really would be irrisistable to her.
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Post by G#Gill »

Sorry, Peter, but the spot post where you highlighted 'with her' - spot was referring to a post by Kazalala not anybody else. Easy to be confused where spot is concerned, I agree! :-6
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Peter Lake;1313955 wrote: let me also explain that there are four computers in this house with different ip addresses [...] I myself have thought about closing my account by your constant inferences that this is my wife posting in my account or that we're sharing the account.


I suspect you're confused about locally delegated private network addressing.

The notion that "as she still has your home phone number she could just stalk you instead" came from Peter is pretty unbelievable too. Given the circumstances under which I provided the number it lacked any hint of moral compass.
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Post by Peter Lake »

G#Gill;1313966 wrote: Sorry, Peter, but the spot post where you highlighted 'with her' - spot was referring to a post by Kazalala not anybody else. Easy to be confused where spot is concerned, I agree! :-6
If i am wrong Gill i would not hesitate to apologise to Spot but it was i who wrote that 'children needing to be educated in the dangers of fireworks'. Spot quoted me and made a reference. Then Kazalala quoted Spot with rolling eye's. He then came back with the reference to 'children should be educated in the dangers of fireworks' and the she said part. I suppose only Spot can put us right here yet i still feel happy that i have said my piece as to the accusations that my wife is writing here in my account as has been put on other threads i've posted on. :D
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spot;1313979 wrote: I suspect you're confused about locally delegated private network addressing.

The notion that "as she still has your home phone number she could just stalk you instead" came from Peter is pretty unbelievable too. Given the circumstances under which I provided the number it lacked any hint of moral compass.


It was a comment made in jest my man as i'm sure the wife would rather peel carrots than stalk you. :)
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Post by spot »

Peter Lake;1313981 wrote: It was a comment made in jest my man as i'm sure the wife would rather peel carrots than stalk you. :)


It had all the humour of a bomb hoax phoned to the Lulsgate front desk.
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Post by kazalala »

Bombs should be banned:p

ok while its entertaining to watch these "spats" are any member interested in commenting on the firework issue? should they be banned altogether? restricted to organized events? or left as it is on sale to the general public? I know it should maybe be a poll but i still aint sorted out how to do the bloody things :wah:

Spot, you seem to be against any action being taken, but i could be wrong there as i don't recall you ever saying you disagree with restrictions being placed? (without reading back). Is that the case? what is your opinion on it and if you had to pick one of the 3 options i gave which would it be?




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kazalala;1314021 wrote: Spot, you seem to be against any action being taken, but i could be wrong there as i don't recall you ever saying you disagree with restrictions being placed? (without reading back). Is that the case? what is your opinion on it and if you had to pick one of the 3 options i gave which would it be?


As with so many things in this country it's a matter of risk. The risk of abuse is trivially small, the risk of injury is trivially small, the risk of accidental or even deliberate death is trivially small, by comparison with a host of other behaviours.

The risk to health and societal damage from fireworks is a molehill compared to the risk to health and societal damage from, say, driving a car or riding a bike, just as the risk to health and societal damage from abusing the entire panoply of illegal drugs is a molehill compared to the risk to health and societal damage of antisocial alcohol consumption.

The focus of the legal system and of whingeing public kneejerk ooh it's a crying shame they ought to do something is entirely misplaced. The wrong problems are in the limelight and the palliatives are wasted on irrelevancies. Understanding and coping with risk ought to be taught at primary school, people who can't assess it responsibly ought to be taxed at a higher rate just to incentivize them into thinking more clearly or at least have their pension docked.

The issue of fireworks has nothing to do with bonfire night, the English now celebrate a host of festivals like Eid and Diwali for which fireworks are also traditional. Banning them from public sale to adults would be a mere pandering to those incapable of reaching a reasoned judgment. By all means enforce the sales act, by all means educate the public more effectively, by all means strengthen the capacity of the police to bring abusers and illegal traders before the courts. A ban, on the other hand, would have little effect on the world's misery while stopping a lot of public enjoyment, it has no support whatever from me.
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spot;1314033 wrote: As with so many things in this country it's a matter of risk. The risk of abuse is trivially small, the risk of injury is trivially small, the risk of accidental or even deliberate death is trivially small, by comparison with a host of other behaviours.

The risk to health and societal damage from fireworks is a molehill compared to the risk to health and societal damage from, say, driving a car or riding a bike, just as the risk to health and societal damage from abusing the entire panoply of illegal drugs is a molehill compared to the risk to health and societal damage of antisocial alcohol consumption.

The focus of the legal system and of whingeing public kneejerk ooh it's a crying shame they ought to do something is entirely misplaced. The wrong problems are in the limelight and the palliatives are wasted on irrelevancies. Understanding and coping with risk ought to be taught at primary school, people who can't assess it responsibly ought to be taxed at a higher rate just to incentivize them into thinking more clearly or at least have their pension docked.

The issue of fireworks has nothing to do with bonfire night, the English now celebrate a host of festivals like Eid and Diwali for which fireworks are also traditional. Banning them from public sale to adults would be a mere pandering to those incapable of reaching a reasoned judgment. By all means enforce the sales act, by all means educate the public more effectively, by all means strengthen the capacity of the police to bring abusers and illegal traders before the courts. A ban, on the other hand, would have little effect on the world's misery while stopping a lot of public enjoyment, it has no support whatever from me.


I wouldnt support a total ban either,, i really like fireworks and have seen some fantastic displays. I understand what you are saying about it being a smaller risk, but to my mind i was thinking that it would be quite easy to put restrictions on them, so that people could still enjoy them but the risk of idiots handling them would be taken away, however small the risk dont really matter to the one who's face was disfigured, or who lost a loved one because of them.

I agree with teaching responsibility from an early age, and also handing out punishments to the irrisponsible, but what makes me wonder is the reasons behind the governments reluctance to do anything.

Why do you think they are happy to allow shops to sell them? Some shops just pop up around bonfire night, new year etc specifically to sell fireworks.




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Post by spot »

kazalala;1314035 wrote: Why do you think they are happy to allow shops to sell them? Some shops just pop up around bonfire night, new year etc specifically to sell fireworks.


Because the purpose of government shouldn't be to protect fools from their folly, and because criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility.
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I have already said I am 100% in favour of banning the sale of fireworks to the public. Licences can be obtained for organised and well supervised large firework displays only. I know it is a shame to bring in a ban, because people enjoy having a bit of a firework display on birthdays throughout the year. It is the irresponsible element that has brought about this widening feeling amongst people. The authorities, in their wisdom, are considering banning those delightful chinese lanterns that people enjoy, one of the reasons being a 'hazard' to aircraft ! Oh and possible fire hazards ! :rolleyes:
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spot;1314041 wrote: Because the purpose of government shouldn't be to protect fools from their folly, because criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility.


I wish I knew what you were talking about :rolleyes:
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Post by spot »

G#Gill;1314046 wrote: I wish I knew what you were talking about :rolleyes:


I wish you did too, Gill, I wish you did too.
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Post by kazalala »

spot;1314041 wrote: Because the purpose of government shouldn't be to protect fools from their folly, and because criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility.


hmm... so if i was to try to change the law to forbid the sale of fireworks to the general public, how would i go about it? also who would make the final decision on it?




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spot;1314041 wrote: Because the purpose of government shouldn't be to protect fools from their folly, and because criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility.

I am confused !
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G#Gill;1314050 wrote: I am confused !


Criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility? You're wishing to make it a criminal act to sell fireworks to unlicensed adults despite the fact that the harm the adults might cause is only a possibility. I'm suggesting that criminality should only result from them causing the harm, not from a situation where the harm is merely a possibility.

As for Kaz's question of how do you get the law changed, you write to your constituency MP with a reasoned argument, asking pertinent questions and recommending the change you want bringing in. The MP is your representative at the appropriate level of government. The appropriate department will be informed of your view and balance it against whatever other opinions, facts and policy come into the matter. It's how, for example, killing otters and hares and foxes and stags with packs of dogs in the name of sport was abolished.
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spot;1314054 wrote: Criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility? You're wishing to make it a criminal act to sell fireworks to unlicensed adults despite the fact that the harm the adults might cause is only a possibility. I'm suggesting that criminality should only result from them causing the harm, not from a situation where the harm is merely a possibility.

As for Kaz's question of how do you get the law changed, you write to your constituency MP with a reasoned argument, asking pertinent questions and recommending the change you want bringing in. The MP is your representative at the appropriate level of government. The appropriate department will be informed of your view and balance it against whatever other opinions, facts and policy come into the matter. It's how, for example, killing otters and hares and foxes and stags with packs of dogs in the name of sport was abolished.


So then it does ultimately come down to a decision by the government.

Spot, would you know how i could go about finding out if this has already been put to them ( i have a feeling it probably has) and if its has, and been refused, the reasons why? Would it just be a matter of asking my MP?




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Post by Peter Lake »

spot;1314041 wrote: Because the purpose of government shouldn't be to protect fools from their folly, and because criminality should be a consequence of action rather than possibility.
That's very true.
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by spot »

kazalala;1314075 wrote: So then it does ultimately come down to a decision by the government.

Spot, would you know how i could go about finding out if this has already been put to them ( i have a feeling it probably has) and if its has, and been refused, the reasons why? Would it just be a matter of asking my MP?


You could even have a half hour chat with your MP and a free cup of tea thrown in, if you write to the constituency office to book a slot at the weekly surgery. They all do them, it's part of the job, you'll be able to ask all those questions (you'd do best to say in the letter that you intend to ask them, there's a paid researcher who can look up some of the answers and ferret out the unknown bits from the Westminster civil bureaucracy).

That gives you all you need to then write a "we met and..." letter, asking for change and detailing the reasons on the basis of the facts from the meeting. You can at least be pretty sure your MP will chip in the next time the House discusses fireworks.

Oh - and you can register at a free website the name of which I can't bring to mind but I'll look up if you like, which will email you each time your MP intervenes or votes in any debate, so you can send him a letter whenever you disagree with what he says or votes. Your opinion matters. You could see what he said, start a thread here quoting it, bang the issue about for a couple of days and then send feedback to the constituency office saying what you end up concluding.

eta: Here is the last debate the house had on firework safety, you might like to read it.
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by kazalala »

spot;1314111 wrote: You could even have a half hour chat with your MP and a free cup of tea thrown in, if you write to the constituency office to book a slot at the weekly surgery. They all do them, it's part of the job, you'll be able to ask all those questions (you'd do best to say in the letter that you intend to ask them, there's a paid researcher who can look up some of the answers and ferret out the unknown bits from the Westminster civil bureaucracy).

That gives you all you need to then write a "we met and..." letter, asking for change and detailing the reasons on the basis of the facts from the meeting. You can at least be pretty sure your MP will chip in the next time the House discusses fireworks.

Oh - and you can register at a free website the name of which I can't bring to mind but I'll look up if you like, which will email you each time your MP intervenes or votes in any debate, so you can send him a letter whenever you disagree with what he says or votes. Your opinion matters. You could see what he said, start a thread here quoting it, bang the issue about for a couple of days and then send feedback to the constituency office saying what you end up concluding.

eta: Here is the last debate the house had on firework safety, you might like to read it.


Thank you for going to that trouble:) you can write to them via that site too so its quite helpful.




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Bill Sikes
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Post by Bill Sikes »

G#Gill;1313684 wrote: You're at it again spot! Trying to derail a thread about FIREWORKS, it's not about petrol, paraffin or wood !


Derail - I don't think so - compare things which do far more damage, yes. That's why I mentioned: "Some people don't consider the consequences of misusing things - cars, fireworks, tools, toys - you name it. That's not to say that all such things should be "banned", though." I don't think you had anything to say about that, did you.



You did, however, say to me:

"So you are happy that young idiots can use explosives against innocent people?"

That's a remarkably silly thing to say, isn't it.



G#Gill;1313684 wrote: Ban the sale of fireworks to the general public, over the shop counter, I say! That would sort out this problem.


Banning the sale of many things would save lives - fireworks are of negligable danger regarding in context. These things are not banned, though. There are penalties for misusing them, though, which is quite right.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

G#Gill;1314045 wrote: I know it is a shame to bring in a (firework) ban, because people enjoy having a bit of a firework display on birthdays throughout the year.


I do not think that fireworks are acceptable on birthdays (except the Queen's, of course), or many other occasions. However, to "ban" them is not on.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

People should be aware of the law, instead of posting guff.

It is an offence for anyone under 18 to possess fireworks in a public place.

It is an offence to use fireworks between 11.00pm and 7.00am (except: 5th November - to midnight, Diwali - to 1.00am New Year - to 1.00am on 1st January, Chinese New Year - to 1.00am on the following day).

There is a penalty of up to £5000 or 6 months in prison. On the spot fines can also be issued

It is also illegal to sell fireworks to people under 18 years old.

There's more I'm sure, you can look it up if you want.
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by spot »

There's a maximum noise limit on bangs too.
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Post by Peter Lake »

Betty Boop;1260534 wrote: I don't get how it is deemed as taking the michael. Say fireworks were banned tomorrow, attention will shift to something else that could cause injury in the wrong hands, it's the way it goes, eventually we will be living in a society with no free rights at all, that's the point, where does it all stop, at what point are individuals going to take responsibility for themselves and their actions.
One of the problems with general sale of fireworks is noise nuisance and as fireworks get bigger and louder i do feel there should be some action. If you happen to live in a large build of houses and they're being let off late at night, many people are disturbed including the mums trying to get children to sleep. It is a trivial act for the police to attend when when it's a regular occurrence, it's anti social behaviour. Fireworks are a regular thing where i live and we make allowences for people having them for birthday, christmas and the usual of new years eve and bonfire night but it's the mindless letting them off in the street that i object to. Police tell us that they do confiscate them from kids when caught with them in the street but this doesn't deter them for their next night.
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Post by G#Gill »

It seems impossible to police it, and the perpetrators don't and won't take any notice of the laws (knowing that it is extremely difficult to actually catch them in the act!), so what is the answer? Other than removing the objects of the idiots' desire, and put them in the hands of far more responsible adults, I cannot see any other solution! As has been already pointed out, laws, regulations and a list of punishments are already present, but ignored and basically laughed at by these idiots!

It's like a lot of other things - it seems that many people have to be told, and the telling enforced by laws and potential punishments. For example. a lot of people have to be told to drive their vehicles at maximum 30 mph (UK) when they are going through a residential and built up area, and particularly near schools or childrens' playgrounds. Some, however, drive with common sense and consideration for others and would not need to be told to keep their speed down in these areas. But because of the people who need telling, everybody is subjected to signs 'telling' everybody to drive at speeds up to maximum 30 mph. For those who exceed this limit, and who are caught, suffer a fine, and possibly even a court appearance!

So with a ban on fireworks on general sale over the counter, the sensible and responsible people are deprived of the enjoyment of having their own Guy Fawkes night celebration! This is not fair, but it is the only way to stop such anti-social and potentially dangerous and illegal activities, IMO.
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Fatal Cornwall blaze blamed on banger yobs

Post by spot »

G#Gill;1314314 wrote: It seems impossible to police it


Everything can be policed given the will, the equipment and the staff. Did you read today that three Whitehaven police, complete with a bleeding great transit van, let that twerp drive off after actually watching him commit his first murder? And the Deputy Chief Constable of Cumbria's on national radio saying the three of them did a wonderful job, instead of apologizing for their not ramming his cab? He "stared into their eyes", apparently. I despair on occasion. What does a transit van weigh? Two tons? There's a difference between being unarmed and not having a weapon.
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Post by Peter Lake »

Bill Sikes;1314255 wrote: People should be aware of the law, instead of posting guff.

It is an offence for anyone under 18 to possess fireworks in a public place.

It is an offence to use fireworks between 11.00pm and 7.00am (except: 5th November - to midnight, Diwali - to 1.00am New Year - to 1.00am on 1st January, Chinese New Year - to 1.00am on the following day).

There is a penalty of up to £5000 or 6 months in prison. On the spot fines can also be issued

It is also illegal to sell fireworks to people under 18 years old.

There's more I'm sure, you can look it up if you want. The laws are there Bill but it comes down to policing them similar to an under manned police force attempting to uphold the ban on fox hunting which still happens. The police just don't have the resources to come out to every anti social moron who lets them off in built up area's late at night nor do they need their valuable resources taken up by a police station full of babbling kids when caught with them.
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Peter Lake;1314324 wrote: The laws are there Bill but it comes down to policing them


I am not at all sure who you are. I think that there's a real possibility that "you" are your wife, if not in actuality then perhaps there is "thought transfer". You seem to have an odd, subservient, "nothing can be done" attitude to the police. This is not productive when dealing with such people.
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Post by G#Gill »

spot;1314321 wrote: Everything can be policed given the will, the equipment and the staff. Did you read today that three Whitehaven police, complete with a bleeding great transit van, let that twerp drive off after actually watching him commit his first murder? And the Deputy Chief Constable of Cumbria's on national radio saying the three of them did a wonderful job, instead of apologizing for their not ramming his cab? He "stared into their eyes", apparently. I despair on occasion. What does a transit van weigh? Two tons? There's a difference between being unarmed and not having a weapon.


Precisely, spot. The police are sterile. So, bearing this in mind, other actions have to be taken to protect the general public, and in the case of fireworks it is putting a ban on the general sale over the counter, of all fireworks to any member of the public. Licenced, and efficiently organised displays only.
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Post by Peter Lake »

Bill Sikes;1314327 wrote: I am not at all sure who you are. I think that there's a real possibility that "you" are your wife, if not in actuality then perhaps there is "thought transfer". You seem to have an odd, subservient, "nothing can be done" attitude to the police. This is not productive when dealing with such people.
I have been a member here for two years, long before my wife was banned. If you read back over the posts in this thread, you'll see my reply to Spot on the same subject. The difference now is that I'm so sick of it, i'm closing my account. I'm laid up in the house with a little time on my hands and have been posting a little more than usual. Now you have the answer to your own question as to why this forum is dying a death.
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G#Gill;1314339 wrote: actions have to be taken to protect the general public, and in the case of fireworks it is putting a ban on the general sale over the counter, of all fireworks to any member of the public. Licenced, and efficiently organised displays only.


Pish. What a dim and short-sighted viewpoint. There're probably in the region of 10,000 alcohol-related deaths per annum in the UK (so ban that), compared to how many for fireworks... 1? 3? Get a grip on reality.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Peter Lake;1314342 wrote: I have been a member here for two years, long before my wife was banned.


I know that.



Peter Lake;1314342 wrote: now is that I'm so sick of it, i'm closing my account


She said that sort of thing from time to time, too, but never did.



Peter Lake;1314342 wrote: Now you have the answer to your own question as to why this forum is dying a death.


I do not think I asked a question like that.



P.S. I'm surprised at you - two comments that you are possibly your wife, and you're off in a flounce.
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Post by Betty Boop »

This is about the bigger picture isn't it though. We ban fireworks, what next.

Can we ban souped up cars that race up and down my hill, maybe handbrakes should be banned, sick of kids racing up and down and doing their handbrake stunts. That's antisocial behaviour, noisy and dangerous too. But not everyone does it, the same as not everyone uses fireworks as weapons.
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Post by Peter Lake »

Bill Sikes;1314348 wrote: I know that.





She said that sort of thing from time to time, too, but never did.





I do not think I asked a question like that.



P.S. I'm surprised at you - two comments that you are possibly your wife, and you're off in a flounce. You know, thinking about it, i think i'll stick around just so you can show me anything from anywhere my wife has ever stated on this forum that she'd be closing her account because in two years of reading her posts here, i've never seen it once. You've made a statement so you must be sure you can find a post where she's said as you infer.

You started a thread stating that you'd noticed a lack of sparkle here of late. Could this be due to a few members here who's only pleasure seems to be making cheap jibes, accusations of anything from being anti American to racist to duel identity. People don't want to post here, that's pretty obvious but they do log on as guests and read and what they then see is rubbish like this.

I do apologise Kaz for interupting your thread topic.
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Betty Boop;1314353 wrote: This is about the bigger picture isn't it though..


I agree with your post. There's "having things" and "misusing things".

In this case, about Mary Fox's death, if we go back to the beginning, the law was broken, and those responsible have been convicted:

The Times wrote: Hewitt and Luckes, of Bodmin, Cornwall, were found guilty and each jailed for seven years for the manslaughter of Mrs Fox and three years concurrently for committing arson, being reckless as to whether life was endangered.

Croft, of Bodmin, had already pleaded guilty to the same offences. He was given five years for manslaughter and two years for arson, also running concurrently Mr Justice Field described the attack as “gross, vicious and nasty”.


It would be as unfair and as unreasonable to "ban" fireworks for the general population as it would be to ban alcohol, or car driving, bicycle-riding, or many other things.
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Post by Betty Boop »

Bill Sikes;1314357 wrote: I agree with your post. There's "having things" and "misusing things".

In this case, about Mary Fox's death, if we go back to the beginning, the law was broken, and those responsible have been convicted:



It would be as unfair and as unreasonable to "ban" fireworks for the general population as it would be to ban alcohol, or car driving, bicycle-riding, or many other things.


Totally agree with you Bill. :)
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Post by Bill Sikes »

Peter Lake;1314355 wrote: You know, thinking about it, i think i'll stick around


Aha - attagi^H^Hboy. Oh! You've gone all lower case, and you're normally so careful!

Peter Lake;1314355 wrote: just so you can show me anything from anywhere my wife has ever stated on this forum that she'd be closing her account


I can't do that, she's in my killfile.
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Post by flopstock »

Bill Sikes;1314357 wrote: I agree with your post. There's "having things" and "misusing things".



In this case, about Mary Fox's death, if we go back to the beginning, the law was broken, and those responsible have been convicted:







It would be as unfair and as unreasonable to "ban" fireworks for the general population as it would be to ban alcohol, or car driving, bicycle-riding, or many other things.




This is the same logic applied to gun ownership here. Guns don't kill, people do.:thinking:
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