Amber Rudd ignores the law

[Bruv]

Three times the courts told her to return Samim Bigzad, a 23-year-old asylum seeker who was cowering in a hotel room in Kabul, threatened with beheading by the Taliban. Three times she refused, thinking she knew best and the courts had got it wrong. It displayed a disdainful arrogance for the courts and the law.

Different rules for different folks ?

[FourPart]

I've said before, whether you agree with whether this person should be allowed asylum or not, the fact is that the courts have ruled that he can stay. She has defied this ruling 3 times. If I had defied a court ruling I would be behind bars for contempt of court. If I had been party to the forced taking of someone without authority I would be facing a 15 year kidnapping charge. Yet because she's a Tory MP / Home Secretary, she can get away with what she likes.

Also remember that the prosecutions that were supposed to have been made for Electoral Fraud / Expenses Frauds etc. all seem to have been conveniently swept under the carpet, despite the CPS saying there was sufficient evidence to form a case & that they had intention to prosecute. Just what became of that?

The current Government are totally corrupt & morally bankrupt. I was watching PMQs last week. She didn't answer a single question (apart from the usual non questions from her butt kissing toadies that essentially start with "Does my honourable friend agree that we are a wonderful Party"?). Angus Robertson even commented "I was under the impression that this was Questions To The Prime Minister" whan all she did when faced with a question was to make grandstanding insults at the person asking the question.

[Clodhopper]

This is the government which has just been given dictatorial powers which it claims are necessary to stop brexit from being a disaster. This government can change law without Parliamentary oversight, heck, without even TELLING Parliament until it is done. Johnson Fox and Davis can redesign the country and its laws to their personal whim.

[Bruv]

The rise of the right has confirmed my worst fears, they are a lot bigger danger than the far left.

[Clodhopper]

William Butler Yeats (1865-1939)

THE SECOND COMING

Turning and turning in the widening gyre

The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;

Surely the Second Coming is at hand.

The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out

When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi

Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;

A shape with lion body and the head of a man,

A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,

Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it

Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.

The darkness drops again but now I know

That twenty centuries of stony sleep

Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,

And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,

Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

[gmc]

Bruv;1512680 wrote: The rise of the right has confirmed my worst fears, they are a lot bigger danger than the far left.


We're in the midst of a right wing take over of our country and the worst part about it is they have convinced large number of people it is all to take back control of our own democracy.

[Bruv]

gmc;1512687 wrote: We're in the midst of a right wing take over of our country and the worst part about it is they have convinced large number of people it is all to take back control of our own democracy.


I lived through the winter of discontent, the Cuban missile crisis, IRA bombing campaign, Poll tax riots, the summer of riots across the UK........................but this past couple of years is the first time I have been this concerned.

[magentaflame]

But you also lived through the tearing down of the Berlin wall, the introduction of democracy in the USSR, the understanding of AIDS and HIV instead of bigatory. The address to indigenous Australia where the prime minister said sorry.

Its not all doom and gloom.

[Clodhopper]

If there's a silver lining round here it's waaaaay out of sight.

Got a brief glimpse of May making a speech earlier. Couldn't face it without more tea. Suppose I'd better see what **** the brexiters are trying to feed us now, claiming it's caviar.

[FourPart]

Clodhopper;1512763 wrote: If there's a silver lining round here it's waaaaay out of sight.

Got a brief glimpse of May making a speech earlier. Couldn't face it without more tea. Suppose I'd better see what **** the brexiters are trying to feed us now, claiming it's caviar.


Whilst the Remoaners blame everything on Brexit, all they are doing, in fact, is giving the Tories a convenient scapegoat. It is clear that there has been a steadily downward trend ever since the Tories got in power - long before the Referendum - before Brexit was even a word. They were so arrogantly certain of a Remain vote they never even bothered to make a contingency for the outside event of the vote going against them. Now, after 15 months, they have finally 'proposed' a transitionary period - something Labour told them at the start. Brexit, itself, has massive potential. The problem is in the way that the whole thing is being (mis)managed. Whilst the country continues in its downward spiral under Tory rule, they are also screwing up the handling of Brexit. Then, come the Remoaners, from both sides of the political divide blaming all the problems on Brexit. This is gold for the Tories. All they then need to come up with is to say that everything was out of their hands & that it wasn't the fault of the Tories, and make out that even the Labour (Remoaners) agree. Then, what will happen, you will get the Tory sheeple, who will look for any bone to substantiate their beliefs & cling to that. Then you will get the Blairites, who will also agree with anything that goes against Corbyn (before the election Tory Bliar even advised Labour supporters to vote Tory if it would bring about voiding the Referendum). People need to see the bigger picture of all the other things that are going on & how long they've been going on for.

[Bruv]

FourPart;1512672 wrote: Also remember that the prosecutions that were supposed to have been made for Electoral Fraud / Expenses Frauds etc. all seem to have been conveniently swept under the carpet, despite the CPS saying there was sufficient evidence to form a case & that they had intention to prosecute. Just what became of that?




A Conservative MP will go on trial in May next year on charges relating to his 2015 general election expenses.

This one didn't get away.

[FourPart]

Bruv;1512771 wrote:

A Conservative MP will go on trial in May next year on charges relating to his 2015 general election expenses.

This one didn't get away.


It remains to be seen if it will actually come about. Even so, though, if it were you or I who were being accused, just how long would it take to be before we found ourselves in the dock? 1 month? 2 months? Certainly not 2 years.

[Clodhopper]

FourPart;1512766 wrote: Whilst the Remoaners blame everything on Brexit, all they are doing, in fact, is giving the Tories a convenient scapegoat. It is clear that there has been a steadily downward trend ever since the Tories got in power - long before the Referendum - before Brexit was even a word. They were so arrogantly certain of a Remain vote they never even bothered to make a contingency for the outside event of the vote going against them. Now, after 15 months, they have finally 'proposed' a transitionary period - something Labour told them at the start. Brexit, itself, has massive potential. The problem is in the way that the whole thing is being (mis)managed. Whilst the country continues in its downward spiral under Tory rule, they are also screwing up the handling of Brexit. Then, come the Remoaners, from both sides of the political divide blaming all the problems on Brexit. This is gold for the Tories. All they then need to come up with is to say that everything was out of their hands & that it wasn't the fault of the Tories, and make out that even the Labour (Remoaners) agree. Then, what will happen, you will get the Tory sheeple, who will look for any bone to substantiate their beliefs & cling to that. Then you will get the Blairites, who will also agree with anything that goes against Corbyn (before the election Tory Bliar even advised Labour supporters to vote Tory if it would bring about voiding the Referendum). People need to see the bigger picture of all the other things that are going on & how long they've been going on for.


Oh so that's your scapegoat now - brexit WOULD have been fine if it weren't for (list convenient excuse, often selected from the BBC, Remain voters or the Bank of England. Truth is this is a project of the right wing of the Conservative Party and has always been run by them and their ultra-rich backers and disgusting rags like the Mail. They are STILL running it so to claim it's a great idea wrecked by Tories is a travesty. It IS a tory project and you voted for it).

Brexit is a devastatingly stupid idea and reckoned by the credit agencies and the IMF and just about every friendly country in the world to be going to trash the country. Economically, socially, internationally - in every way. And you voted for it. I'm sure all you brexiters will comfort yourselves with how brexit would have been a great thing if only it weren't for all the bad luck and sabotage that caused it to fail as the economy tanks

And since you won't be around on here to blame when it's clear brexit has just created a right wing dictatorship ( they have the power NOW since Parliament voted to castrate itself) understand that I blame you and your fellow voters for it. Not as much as I blame people like Murdoch, Johnson, Davis, Fox, the Barclay brothers, Dacre and far right Trump supporting organisations like Cambridge Analytics who provided their skills free of charge. All these are known to be the force behind brexit. You think they did it for you? Or the UK? No, they did it because they will get a lot richer now they control the country. You and I will get poorer. Even more poor, I mean. A couple I know just went for a short break they'd saved for over the summer. £1 traded for just under 1 Euro. Was 1:1.6 a year ago. The reason? Brexit.

It's already damaging us and it hasn't even happened yet.

And before you start, I'm doing nothing to oppose brexit other than remind you brexiters what a stupid thing you have done - the greatest act of self harm in our history since Harold said he'd support William's claim to the English throne. So don't start claiming it would have been great if it weren't for Remainers.

Go to the BBC HYS and see the sort of things you voted with: Racists like Rightsforwhites, claiming it's not racist to hate Poles because they are the same race. You voted with them and for them even if you don't realise it. You are responsible for the spike in race hate crime that followed the brexit vote as the racists took it as a cue to attack.

Brexiters are responsible for brexit and its consequences. No-one else, only brexiters.

[gmc]

Bruv;1512696 wrote: I lived through the winter of discontent, the Cuban missile crisis, IRA bombing campaign, Poll tax riots, the summer of riots across the UK........................but this past couple of years is the first time I have been this concerned.


I'm with you on that one. It's like living in a very bad politcal conspiracy thriller. Guy fawkes night soon I was talking to a brexit supporter who think he was a hero trying to blow up parliament to restore democracy:-5:-5. Worse than that he was an orangemen from glasgow.

[FourPart]

You may recall that the Tories gambled everything on the Referendum bringing about a Remain vote & lost. They were so cock sure about getting their Remain vote that they never even thought to make any contingency plan, just in case of the outside possibility of a Leave vote. All the campaigning, from both sides of the House was for Remain, yet despite of this, the vote went to Leave. Just think what the result might have been had the campaigning been a bit more balanced.

The point is that the downward spiral began BEFORE the Referendum. Austerity began BEFORE the Referendum. The Global Crash happened BEFORE the Referendum (yet the Tories still like to conveniently blame this on a 'Labour' Government (using the term reservedly, as it was the Neo-Tory Government of Tory Bliar - as if a Labour Government could bring about the downfall of all the banks worldwide). If you plot the timeline of mismanagement by the Tories, it remains a fairly straight downward line, with Brexit just appearing as a relatively small blip about half way. Of course it has a temporary detrimental effect. That was always known. If there's one thing business doesn't like, it's uncertainty, but once it becomes known what's happening, confidence will return & growth will increase - but the Tory Government does not inspire confidence.

[Clodhopper]

FourPart;1512807 wrote: You may recall that the Tories gambled everything on the Referendum bringing about a Remain vote & lost. They were so cock sure about getting their Remain vote that they never even thought to make any contingency plan, just in case of the outside possibility of a Leave vote. All the campaigning, from both sides of the House was for Remain, yet despite of this, the vote went to Leave. Just think what the result might have been had the campaigning been a bit more balanced.

The point is that the downward spiral began BEFORE the Referendum. Austerity began BEFORE the Referendum. The Global Crash happened BEFORE the Referendum (yet the Tories still like to conveniently blame this on a 'Labour' Government (using the term reservedly, as it was the Neo-Tory Government of Tory Bliar - as if a Labour Government could bring about the downfall of all the banks worldwide). If you plot the timeline of mismanagement by the Tories, it remains a fairly straight downward line, with Brexit just appearing as a relatively small blip about half way. Of course it has a temporary detrimental effect. That was always known. If there's one thing business doesn't like, it's uncertainty, but once it becomes known what's happening, confidence will return & growth will increase - but the Tory Government does not inspire confidence.


The right wing of the tory Party caused the referendum by their constnt anti Europe agenda. They've been constant poison in all our dealings with the EU. Now they are running it - Davis, Fox, Johnson.

Pointless. The rewriting of history you are doing is just beyond belief.

Brexit is not going to make any of the things you complain about be better since they weren't caused by being in the EU. None of them. In fact it will make the effects of all of them worse.

And this temporary blip always being known is not what brexiters were saying before the vote when the liars were claiming it would all be easy. Davis said there would only be upside! Davis. Tory. Chief Brexit negotiator. Long time right wing EU hating tory you empowered. Backed by Murdoch, Dacre. Right wing tory propagandists. Supported by alt right trump supporting US charities providing analytical services and targeted emails. Backed by rich right wing tories like the Barclay brothers... UKIP was riddled with the old BNP (some here might remember one...)

And you sit there all innocent saying oh no none of that happened or is true.

It's the constant rewriting of history with the blatantly obvious agenda of proving that they are somehow right that gets me. Have they no concept of external reality?

Look at you! Moaning and wailing and your dream project hasn't even happened yet! Why aren't you leaping for glee that Heaven is about to pour its bounty on us as brexiters en masse claimed it would the moment we left?

How can you be proud of having voted with the far right of the tory party, with all the racist scum that post on the BBC HYS? (did you even look?) with Davis Fox and Johnson? Did voting on the same side as those not give you any sort of clue that you might be voting to support a right wing racist movement? Did you not even consider the talentless incompetents who would be running brexit? Labour or con?

[FourPart]

I never said that the moment we were out everything would be roses. I always said that there would be a tough transition period. After which things would settle down again & that, in the long term, we would all be better off. I've never even seen Brexit as a Party Political thing, as it affects everyone, regardless of their political leanings. As a result I have always believed that the negotiations should be handled by a Cross Party Committee. The votes are in. Article 50 has been triggered. It is happening. No amount of Remoaning is going to stop it. Instead of dragging your heels you should accept it & make the best of it.

Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if the Government had refused to go with the result of the Referendum, and totally dismissed the decision of the majority view. It may only have been a 4%, but that 4% was still decisive. To go against it would have most likely triggered a Civil War.

[Clodhopper]

Long term weasel words. How long is long term? And why was the ****ing brexit campaign not telling the public there would be tough transition period?

Tough transition period. What good is what YOU may or may not have said. Where were the brexit banners saying, "Yes it will be tough but worth it"? THERE WEREN'T ANY. We were told brexit would be EASY by every lying ****head leading YOUR movement.

Make the best of it. The brexit way no doubt: Look after no1, that's the brexit Aron Banks way. Sell out to the multinationals and big business, that's the brexit tory way. Lie, deceive, distort, that's the brexit Johnson way. Become a violent racist, that's the brexit UKIP way. Treat people like filth, that's the brexit Murdoch Millie Dowler way.

What have your negotiators achieved so far? NOTHING. The best the ****ers can do is come back and say, "Be optimistic!" after what?18 months - these are the lying ****ers YOU empowered.

Banks expected to trigger their contingency plans by Christmas if no sign of a deal and there isn't yet according to Deputy Gov of Bank of England. Since it looks as though brexiters actually want a hard brexit with all the devastation that means - a tough transition period - it will be worth it - we're told by the people who said brexit would be easy.

Don't forget that this transition period will be tough but worth it in the long term - 50 or 100 years? Long term isn't defined. Maybe we'll get back to where we would have been had we never left - if we're lucky - in 50 to 100 years. We're being put through this tough transition period so we can in some undefined way be "better off" after whatever suffering people go through in the meantime. It had better be damned good.

Oh the Banks won't move we were told. Nothing will change. NOT the Banks will go and there will a tough transition period.

Do you think the Just About Managings would have voted for a tough transition period if they'd been told? What's it going to mean for people with mortgages? Does a tough transition period mean mass job losses? A tough transition period mean a lot of brexiters really are turkeys that voted for Christmas.

Brexiters: People who boast about trashing their country on a vague and undefined promise we'll be better off some time in the long term future.

Oh, and I have accepted it seems it will happen. I've considered leaving the country - I have a right to another passport - but this is my country and after you ****ers have finished trashing the place and blaming everyone but yourselves for the mess, THEN we can assess where we are and try to sort something out. In the meantime it's pray that we don't get Civil War when the REAL damage starts to become clear.

You know ever single one of these people seem to have had their own individually tailored imagined brexit and voted for that as though it was the agenda of the leaders of the movement. Now they are all surprised and hurt that their own wonderful idea (different from everyone else's wonderful idea) isn't the one that is going to happen, the agenda of people like Farage and Murdoch and Banks and Dacre and Fox and Johnson and Davis - the publically and widely known leaders, paymasters and propagandists of brexit since the referendum started - THEIRS is the agenda that is going to happen. If the ****ers have the competence to manage even that.

[Clodhopper]

To do after brexit assuming the currently most likely sort of brexit which is no deal at all (being positive and constructive about the future):

1) Slash the Navy to a coastal guard force + Nuclear deterrent (sadly) and Army to a territorial militia or consider Mercenary work to help pay for them. Keep a powerful RAF. This might mean leaving NATO.

2) Nationalise Power, Water, Transport and if necessary Agriculture. Renewables.

3) See what can be saved from the NHS.

4) Proportional representation. Which sort can be debated - 1st past the post must end.

5) See what's left of the Union. Work out the post brexit relationships.

6) Balance the books.

7) Education: Total revamp for the modern world. Keep at least a few Universities well funded. R&D is a priority.

8) Consider our democratic system in the light of (7). Does brexit mean a more limited franchise is necessary, if so, what sort?

9) The whole relationship of business and society.

10) See about improving relations with the EU - if it survives brexit (not guaranteed).

11) Trade deals are assumed as being negotiated in some form.

12) Return sovereignty from Ministers to Parliament

13) Trade Deal with EU (brexiters are not remotely capable of this on current evidence so it will still need to be done)

14) Maintain all areas of standards at least to EU levels if the budget remotely allows it. If not, don't pretend. Just keep it safe.

15) If it's really bad, adequate food, clean water, heat, light, medicine and education are the essentials. Look to Cuba.

16) Make sure the Civil Service is fit for purpose. I fear it's been over-cut and if central planning is rushed and 2nd rate everything else starts with a handicap.

17) Make the hard decisions early and explain them honestly.

18) Confirm the independence of the BBC and its charter to inform. Its journalism is its central function.

19) Press watchdog with real teeth but also remit to encourage best practice.

20) Internet...

[Bryn Mawr]

FourPart;1512934 wrote: I never said that the moment we were out everything would be roses. I always said that there would be a tough transition period. After which things would settle down again & that, in the long term, we would all be better off. I've never even seen Brexit as a Party Political thing, as it affects everyone, regardless of their political leanings. As a result I have always believed that the negotiations should be handled by a Cross Party Committee. The votes are in. Article 50 has been triggered. It is happening. No amount of Remoaning is going to stop it. Instead of dragging your heels you should accept it & make the best of it.

Can you imagine what the reaction would have been if the Government had refused to go with the result of the Referendum, and totally dismissed the decision of the majority view. It may only have been a 4%, but that 4% was still decisive. To go against it would have most likely triggered a Civil War.


Given the turnout it was anything but a majority view and where does the 4% come from? It was 51% to 49% which, in my mind, is 2% of the less than two thirds who voted.