Archaeology and the Bible.

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Mickiel
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Post by Mickiel »

We live in an age of " Prove this, and Prove that", and thats understandable. Even the bible advises to " Prove all things", but can we actually prove that the bible is relevant history?

We most certainly can, and its very easy to do, using Archaeology as a reference in Reality. Archaeology offers Person, Place and Thing, for any to see and examine for themselves. It offers real Geographics, Real Artifacts, and Real places that existed in our history.

And I want to go into these unique unearthed realitys and show how they support the bible in our very real History.

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Post by Mickiel »

The Archaeological mind must be objective, rather than subjective, belief in God itself has both subjective and objective elements to it. Subjective is our own belief within our own minds, personal and Individual. Its what we think to ourselves, Private or self committed. And that is a very good approach to belief in God. Now objectivity is things outside of your mind, your belief as it considers things other than you. Things external to the mind rather than thoughts or feelings.

Meaning we can certainly personally believe in God ourselves, but things outside of ourselves must be considered, don't get locked into self with your belief in God, because there is far too much " Other than you", which needs to be considered. You are too limited to think that such a limited look can prove God to you, or anyonelse. The bible has an historical base in history , and believers need to be aware of this.

And I want to go into these facts outside of ourselves, which will actually support ourselves, in this dynamic known as belief in God as supported by human recorded history.

Know your History.

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Post by spot »

I'll enjoy seeing what you can dig up then. The archaeology of Palestine is fraught with an astonishing lack of coherence when compared with the biblical text, far more so than any other ancient near east civilizations.
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Post by Mickiel »

spot;1193030 wrote: I'll enjoy seeing what you can dig up then. The archaeology of Palestine is fraught with an astonishing lack of coherence when compared with the biblical text, far more so than any other ancient near east civilizations.




I don't think things that lack coherence need to be considered heavily, only those things which are coherent such as the location of death. An actual place of death, where an individual died, I think then lends to the credance of the individual itself. If I died, then I died, but if the place I died in exist, then that gives more credance to my death. Jesus died at the " Place of the Skull", or " Golgotha", and that place actually exist today, they found it. Its been unearthed. Its real, its geographic, its " Place and Thing."

Christ was recorded in Mark 15:22,27, 1Peter 2:24, to have been hung between two thieves at Golgotha. This place exist, we have it now, its real geographic, not imaginary myth. Before Jesus died, he prayed in the " Garden of Gethsemane", the actual place where he was betrayed by Judas, Matt.26:36-50. They have that place right now, it exist, its real. It fits the glove of history.

But other gloves fit as well, and I want to trace those imprints of history.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1193036 wrote: But other gloves fit as well, and I want to trace those imprints of history.Not at all. If you want to confirm the biblical accounts occurred in Palestine then the historical record needs to be a glove that fits, I don't see how you can pretend it's optional. Starting from a position of saying the bible is true as an article of faith is pointless in this context. The extent to which you can provide that physical evidence from archaeology is the extent to which you can offer your confirmation. You presumably agree there are problems, at least.
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spot;1193041 wrote: Not at all. If you want to confirm the biblical accounts occurred in Palestine then the historical record needs to be a glove that fits, I don't see how you can pretend it's optional. Starting from a position of saying the bible is true as an article of faith is pointless in this context. The extent to which you can provide that physical evidence from archaeology is the extent to which you can offer your confirmation. You presumably agree there are problems, at least.




I have not encountered any problems, but I have encountered infutable evidence such as the actual house of Mary and Martha, two people who walked and talked with Jesus, and Jesus often stayed in the house on his visits, Matt.21:17;26:6;John 12:1,2. Here we again have place and thing. We have actual geographic, and actual object. I have pictures of the house, its really well preserved, the Archaeologist did a good job working this one.

The house is in Bethany, and recent finds by the National Geographic team, may have well found the actual ossasries, or " Caskets" of Mary and other friends and relitives of Jesus. Go to their site and reference " The Tomb of Jesus." When you have the place that someone died in, as well as their bones or casket, its hard to dispute that they lived, its just common sense to me.

Did you know they have unearthed the actual tomb of Lazarus, the one Jesus raised from the dead in John 11:1-44? I mean they got this tomb man. They also have unearthed the Tomb of Joseph, I got pictures of both Tombs. I mean this is the actual Tomb that Joseph bought and owned, hewn into a hillside in a garden near where Christ was Crucified, and it all fits into the biblical account. They took Jesus body to this logical location. John 19:38-42. Again we have actual gravesite, actual geographic, the city this occured in, and biblical characthers who were directly involved with Christ.

It don't get no simpler than that.

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Post by Mickiel »

Archaeological discoveries often give additional information on old testament activities which may or may not be recorded in the bible directly, but fuse with it indirectly, and we just have to connect the lines of history. God was actively dealing with a nation on earth back then, oh how I wish he would do that now, but he is not, so we are left to trace his dealings in the past. Because thats how he wants us, now, to search and glean. For whatever reason.

The " Black Obelisk", of Shalmaneser III, King of Assyria, was found in the ruins of his Palace at Calah, ( Nimrud). It shows officals of five different nations paying tribute to Shalnameser, one of whom is Israel's King Jehu, 2 Kings 9-10. Israel existed in our early times, it had Kings and subjects, geographic and events recorded in both biblical and secular history.

The Obelisk, six and one half feet tall, bears the only likeness that has ever been found of any Israelite King. These kinds of Archaeological finds cannot be ignored, they are pictures of our past, and they are connecting the Bible to our past. So many years ago, no one way back then was trying to " Formulate a giant Scheme" to fool the humans of the future. What was real, was real. In example, " Jacobs Well" was unearthed, we have it right now. Jesus is recorded in the bible in John 4:4-42, as encountering a woman at Jacobs well as he passed through Samaria. This well is still in use today, near the little village of " Sycar". Still there, still obvious geographic, still person, place and thing.

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Post by Mickiel »

First century coins of Palestine were made of three metals, Gold, Silver and Copper. Christ refered to these three in Matt.10:9, when he said brass that means Copper. Many Greek and Roman coins have been discovered and are of importance to the Archaeologist because they preserve for us the likeness of dignitaries, temples and buildings. Christ used a coin of his day to illustrate points, Matt.10:29-31 " Are not two sparrows sold for a Farthing?" When things like this are spoken, we can then trace this coin down to a specific time in history which is relevant to the speaker.

Farthings are worth about one-quarter cent each. When the Herodians sought to trap Jesus reguarding lawful payments of taxes, they brought him a coin at his request. It was a Penny which contained the image and subscription of Caesar, Matt.22:15-22. They were Roman coins made of Copper. The " Farthing" was called " Quadrans", the penny was called " Denarius".

The " Stater" ( A piece of money) was the coin that Peter found in the mouth of a Fish, Matt.17:27. It was a Greek coin made of an alloy of Gold mixed with Silver, and was the temple tax for Jesus and Peter. The " Didrachma" ( tribute) was also a Greek coin, the value of which paied the Temple Tax for one person, Matt.17:24. The " Drachma" was the Greek coin lost by a woman in Luke 15:8, worth half that of the didrachma. The " Lepton" ( Mite) was a Greek Copper coin, the smallest of Palestinian coins, was worth 1/8 of a cent. This is the coin used by " The Widow" that Christ observed in Luke 21:1-4.

I have pictures of all these coins. You can see Caesars inscription, temples and buildings, and read inscriptions that are lettered. Much like we do our coins today.

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Post by Mickiel »

Did you know that they have found the bone box of " Caiaphas" the high priest that spoke with Jesus himself? I mean they got this mans bones. He is mentioned in Matt.26:57, Mark 14:53-65 and John 18:12,19-24. He was the High Priest of the Sanhedrin who most likely struck Christ himself, spit in his face and slapped him, Matt.26:67.This is amazing historical proof of the bibles historical relevance.

Did you know they have found the Bone Box of " Simon of Cyrene", the black man who was pressed into helping Jesus carry his cross, Matt. 27:32. They have this mans bones! Archaeology has found yet another relevant Biblical characther that supports Jesus existence.

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Mickiel;1195328 wrote: Did you know that they have found the bone box of " Caiaphas" the high priest that spoke with Jesus himself? I mean they got this mans bones. He is mentioned in Matt.26:57, Mark 14:53-65 and John 18:12,19-24. He was the High Priest of the Sanhedrin who most likely struck Christ himself, spit in his face and slapped him, Matt.26:67.This is amazing historical proof of the bibles historical relevance.

Did you know they have found the Bone Box of " Simon of Cyrene", the black man who was pressed into helping Jesus carry his cross, Matt. 27:32. They have this mans bones! Archaeology has found yet another relevant Biblical characther that supports Jesus existence.

Peace.




Even hisrorical writers who were secular give evidence of Jesus. Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, Lucian of Samosata and the Babylonian Talmud all mention Jesus. These writers were not a part of some elaborate hoax, they were historians and relevant to their times.

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Post by Mickiel »

The " Ishtar Gate" is one of the most impressive monuments discovered in the ancient east. The impressive gateway led past Nebuchadnezzars place to the 7 storied " Ziggurat", crowned by the temple of Marduk. The famous " Hanging Gardens" of Babylon were in the back of this palace. The hanging gardens were built by Nebuchadnezzar for one of his wives. Nebuchadnezzar is a biblical characther, they have unearthed his likeness on coins, sheilds and walls. They have found his palaces and the hanging gardens.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1195639 wrote: Even hisrorical writers who were secular give evidence of Jesus. Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, Josephus, Lucian of Samosata and the Babylonian Talmud all mention Jesus. These writers were not a part of some elaborate hoax, they were historians and relevant to their times.

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Perhaps I could ask for the name of the book in each case so that I can go and check? This is the easiest of your claims for you to provide references for, I'm trying to make it simple for you. If what you claim here is true I'll eat my hat, how's that?

You could even try to really impress the thread's readers by giving the relevant quote from each book rather than just a list of authors.
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spot;1196604 wrote: Perhaps I could ask for the name of the book in each case so that I can go and check? This is the easiest of your claims for you to provide references for, I'm trying to make it simple for you. If what you claim here is true I'll eat my hat, how's that?

You could even try to really impress the thread's readers by giving the relevant quote from each book rather than just a list of authors.




Your trying to make it simple for me. I don't need your help, and have not asked for it. I am not trying to impress readers, they can just as easy research for themselves, I didnot need anyone to research for me.

As far as you eating your hat, I couldcareless what you eat or why. You don't understand me, and you don't understand why I write.

I don't write to impress people.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1196681 wrote: Your trying to make it simple for me. I don't need your help, and have not asked for it. I am not trying to impress readers, they can just as easy research for themselves, I didnot need anyone to research for me.

As far as you eating your hat, I couldcareless what you eat or why. You don't understand me, and you don't understand why I write.

I don't write to impress people.

Peace.


"they can just as easy research for themselves"? You quote five AUTHORS and expect us to work out what passages you're referring to? Come on, play the man, tell us where to check.
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Post by Mickiel »

spot;1196795 wrote:

"

Come on, play the man, tell us where to check.




I am not playing, and there is nothing you can do to dictate the terms from which I write. Now if you had a different aittitude in your approach to me, I would have responded differently. But I do not have to accomidate sarcasm, rudeness, disrespect and other aittitudes you display.

I don't like how you approached me, so I don't have to do anything for you.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1196828 wrote: I am not playing, and there is nothing you can do to dictate the terms from which I write. Now if you had a different aittitude in your approach to me, I would have responded differently. But I do not have to accomidate sarcasm, rudeness, disrespect and other aittitudes you display.

I don't like how you approached me, so I don't have to do anything for you.

Peace.


Then I note in the thread that, having some familiarity with your claimed sources, they don't in the least say what you've claimed they contain. I also note that I disagree with your interpretations of other "evidence" - the Black Obelisk, for example, gives no hint of where your biblical king reigned, your ossuaries are challenged by rather more credible archaeologists and your coins are scarcely proof of any biblical event. As for "the actual tomb of Lazarus" the only possible response is derision.

As to why you write, I'd put that down to a demand for belief from someone lacking faith.
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Post by Mickiel »

King Solomon built pools to bring water into the city of Jerusalem, Eccles. 2:6, they have found these pools. Some years back construction workers built a new road from Jerusalem to Bethlehem and unearthed a conduit of Solomons. Solomon loved Silver and Gold and he built a seaport on the Red Sea ( Aqaba Gulf) and a Navy to import these metals, much of which came from Ophir ( 1Kings 9:26-28) Archaeologist unearthed a piece of pottery which mentions Ophirs Gold, this , along with an inscribed stamp found at ancient Bethel, gives Archaeological evidence, not only of Ophir having an abundance of Gold, but that extensive trade was carried on between Israel and Sheba. Which supports the queen of Sheba's vist to see Solomon, 1Kings 10:1-13.

They have discovered Solomons Pool, and his Copper Mines.

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Mickiel;1196846 wrote: They have discovered Solomons Pool, and his Copper Mines.


The bible claims Solomon had copper mines? I think not.
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spot;1196852 wrote: The bible claims Solomon had copper mines? I think not.


In 2Chronicles 9:13-28, it reveals that King Solomon not only had the mines, but he had Ivory, Silver, Gold, Ships, garments, weapons, Spices, horses, mules, 4,000 stalls for the horses which arechaelogist have unearthed with many of the tie post still intact, he had 12,000 horsemen. It is said thay he made Silver as if it was common as a stone.

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Mickiel;1196866 wrote: In 2Chronicles 9:13-28, it reveals that King Solomon not only had the mines, but he had Ivory, Silver, Gold, Ships, garments, weapons, Spices, horses, mules, 4,000 stalls for the horses which arechaelogist have unearthed with many of the tie post still intact, he had 12,000 horsemen. It is said thay he made Silver as if it was common as a stone.

Peace.


Do you know, there's not a word there in "2Chronicles 9:13-28" about Solomon owning a single mine at all. Not even an implication of a mine. Much less a copper mine.

What's been unearthed is a copper mine which might, depending on how you juggle the dates, just possibly overlap with some bible-scholars' proposed chronology that there was a king then called Solomon, though the bible doesn't give the least reason for anyone assuming that he ruled anywhere near where the mine's been found. As justification for "They have discovered Solomons Copper Mines" it's not even a tenuous association. Rather like the rest of your thread.

Let me see whether this way of putting it makes sense. If this thread was posted by a Muslim making an equivalent set of claims about Islam, you'd be mocking it to pieces and laughing your head off at the folly shown by the poster. All that's keeping you to your course is your need for belief.
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spot;1196884 wrote:

Do you know, there's not a word there in "2Chronicles 9:13-28" about Solomon owning a single mine at all. Not even an implication of a mine. Much less a copper mine.

.


Man do I disagree with that, YOU just don't see it. Vs. 13-14 Solomon had 666talents of Gold " Besides " that which was traded or bought, which means he Mined it, or " Made it." Vs.16-He " Made" 300 sheilds of " Beaten Gold", or refined Gold in a mine. Vs.27" he " Made Silver", meaning he mined it. Any land that yeilds Gold and Silver, will yeild the lesser Copper ( or Brass), thats just common sense.

Solomon had Hiram build many things for him, in 1Kings 7:45 Hiram " Made" pails, shovels, bowls and all utensils in Solomons house out of Polished " Brass", or Copper, and he got the Copper from Solomons mines.

After searching for 20 years Archaeologist Nelson Glueck found a ruined site the natives traditiuonally called " Copper Ruin." He excavated. Crumbled walls and furnaces black with heap of Copper Slag proved to be a once great Copper Smelter. Further south 7 simular mines were unearthed. Pottery in all of them were from the time of Solomon. Glueck followed the biblical description of an ancient city-" Ezion-geber" beside Eloth on the shore of the Red Sea in the land of Edom, 1Kings 9:26 and located the Copper mines.

These mines in fact still produce Ore and are operated by Solomons Kinsmen. Fulfilling Duet. 8:7-9 A land out of whose hills thou mayest dig Brass ( Copper.)

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spot;1196841 wrote: Then I note in the thread that, having some familiarity with your claimed sources, they don't in the least say what you've claimed they contain. I also note that I disagree with your interpretations of other "evidence" - the Black Obelisk, for example, gives no hint of where your biblical king reigned, .


Well again, I certainly disagree with you. On the top of the Obelisk itself it is inscribed each tribute from each visting King. It describes " The Tribute of Jehu", who was Israels King at that time, 2Kings 9th and 10th chapters. Its right there on the Obelisk, both in letter inscription and a artist rendition of how Jehu looked in a drawing. This is just simple evidence, its just right there,

Its just not for you to see.

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Post by spot »

I'm entirely happy with both of your last two posts. They leave the thread with all the evidence anyone reading the thread needs, if they go and check what each of us has claimed, as to whose statements are more reasonable and accurate.

If this thread was posted by a Muslim making an equivalent set of claims about Islam, you'd be mocking it to pieces and laughing your head off at the folly shown by the poster. All that's keeping you to your course is your need for belief.
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spot;1197139 wrote: I'm entirely happy with both of your last two posts. They leave the thread with all the evidence anyone reading the thread needs, if they go and check what each of us has claimed, as to whose statements are more reasonable and accurate.

If this thread was posted by a Muslim making an equivalent set of claims about Islam, you'd be mocking it to pieces and laughing your head off at the folly shown by the poster. All that's keeping you to your course is your need for belief.


Well history keeps me on course, and I have shown nothing that history does not record. When Jehoiakim became King over Judah, Nebuchadnezzar, King of Babylon, came to Jerusalem and made him his servant. In servitude for three years, Jehoiakim rebelled, and God sent judgement on him for the innocent blood he shed. Nebuchadnezzar bound him in fetters ( chains) and carried him and the vessels of the house of the Lord to Babylon, 2Kings 24:1-5; 2Chron.36:5-7. Listed in the first deportation was Daniel, Dan.1:1-6.

The second deportation took place under the reign of Jehoiachin, when Nebuchadnezzar came back and took Jehoiachin and all his mighty men of valor to Babylon. He destroyed the vessels of the Temple ( which had replaced the ones previously taken by Nebuchadnezzar) and left the poorest of the people to remain in the land, 2Kings 24:8-16, 2Chron.36:9,10. Ezekiel was included in this group, Ezk.1:1-2. Other cities attacked by Nebuchadnezzar-Lachish, which had been rebuilt, and Azekiah. The seal of Gedaliah, ruler of those remaining in the land, has been found. 2Kings 25:27-30. They found the " Lachish Letters", I have copys of those.

The third and final deportation took place under King Zedekiah. This time Nebuchadnezzar put a blockade around Jerusalem, causing a famine. When the people tried to flee he captured them, set fire to the whole city, and broke down its walls. He showed no compassion, all were taken captive except the poorest of the poor, who were left to till the soil, 2Kings 25:1-21, 2Chron.36:11-21. The final overthrow of the southern Kingdom of Judah is recorded in these words: " So Judah was carried away out of their land", 2Kings 25:21, and remained in captivity for 70 years until the Medes and Persians defeated the Babylonians, 2Chron. 36:20-23.

Judahs Captivity was foretold by Moses, Duet. 28:36,47-52. Their captivity was again foretold 150 years before it happened, Isaiah 6:11,12, and Babylon was predicted as the place of captivity, Micah 4:9,10. Jeremiah informs us that these predictions were fulfilled when Nebuchadnezzar made his three attacks on Jerusalem, 52:27-30.

I consider this very accurate in history, very unique proof of the bibles relevance in any study of our history, and realism. Stunning accuracy to the trained eye.

But let me go into more simpler finds in Archaeology which are just as stunning.

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I am pleasantly surprised that this site offers leads to the evidence of the biblical citys of Sodom and Gormorah being found. Stunning evidence, follow the links shown by Forumgarden.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1197157 wrote: Well history keeps me on course, and I have shown nothing that history does not record.


That may well be the case. What I take exception to is your interpretation of what history records.

If this thread was posted by a Mormon making an equivalent set of claims about Moroni, you'd be mocking it to pieces and laughing your head off at the folly shown by the poster. All that's keeping you to your course is your need for belief.
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Post by Mickiel »

When fighting broke out between the Jews and the Arabs in 1947, the bible brought to light a simular invasion by Israel against Syria twenty eight hundred years ago, 2Sam. 8:5-6,10:17-19. Believing that the terrain would force a simular invasion route, the Israelites familiarized themselves with the countryside and biblical details of that battle centuries ago. As expected, the Syrians followed the same route and the Jewish soldiers won the battle over Syria, this is recorded history, no problem in interpiting it.

The bible also helped to discover an ancient road going toward Egypts central garrison. Under cover of darkness the Israelies sped along this ancient route and took the Egyptians by surprise.

The " Six Days War" in June 1967, in which Israel overwhelmingly defeated three countries, Syria, Jordan and Egypt, was largely due to these same tactics, plus their lightning speed attack. They used the bible to win these wars.

Now it does not matter to me how anyone interpits these recorded facts, they are a part of recorded history.

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Then we have the Flood of Noah. As I researched it, there are over 33 seperate racial records amoungst different cultures in their history concerning a great flood. Of this number, only two fail to coincide with Moses account, Egyptian and Scandinavian. The English, Hindus, Aztecs of Mexico, Incas of Peru, the Fiji Islanders, even American Indians have traditional stories about this great flood.

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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1198598 wrote: Then we have the Flood of Noah. As I researched it, there are over 33 seperate racial records amoungst different cultures in their history concerning a great flood. Of this number, only two fail to coincide with Moses account, Egyptian and Scandinavian. The English, Hindus, Aztecs of Mexico, Incas of Peru, the Fiji Islanders, even American Indians have traditional stories about this great flood.

Peace.


Which is the English one? I'd quite like to read that.
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Post by Ted »

Spot:-6

Unfortunately it is the same old same old from this particular poster (Mickiel). I guess he likes to see his name in print. I did originally think that maybe there was a slight chance he might have changed but so far have seen none.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Post by Mickiel »

Ted;1198737 wrote: Spot:-6

Unfortunately it is the same old same old from this particular poster (Mickiel). I guess he likes to see his name in print. I did originally think that maybe there was a slight chance he might have changed but so far have seen none.

Shalom

Ted:-6


There is an old saying: if you can't say anything good about anyone, then don't say anything. I don't say anything about you, I don't insult you, I don't know who you are. And yet you insult me.

My change will come, and it will have absolutely nothing to do with what you think about me. I don't care what you think about me. Remember that, I couldcareless what you think of me. But I pray that God blesses your change.

In Genesis 42-46 we have the account of Joseph and his brothers, and of the moving of Jacob and his family to Egypt, thus bringing to pass the settling of Israel in that land as Gods word had predicted. Located on the west bank of the Nile near Karnak are the ruins of Graineries where Joseph met his brothers. Upon the death of Jacob, Joseph commanded his servants the Physicians to embalm his father, Gen. 50:2-3. Egypts method of embalming was " Mummification", and they were good at it.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

Did you know that they have the Baptismal site of Christ? John baptised him in the River Jordan. They have that very spot, that biblical geographic is real and exist until this very day. They found the Mountian where Jesus was tempted by the devil. They have the ruins of the Synagouge at Capernaum, I have pictures of all three of these locations. They have Jacobs well, John 4:4-42, and I think they still actually use the well.

They have identified the Tomb of Lazarus, the Via Dolorosa and the Damascus Gate. They have even found the Garden of Gethsemane, all unearthed and cataloged, all biblical geographics, all confirmed by the bible, all confirmed by Archaeology.

It just makes you wonder why people do not believe.

Peace.
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Post by Victoria »

Mickiel;1198897 wrote: Did you know that they have the Baptismal site of Christ? John baptised him in the River Jordan. They have that very spot, that biblical geographic is real and exist until this very day. They found the Mountian where Jesus was tempted by the devil. They have the ruins of the Synagouge at Capernaum, I have pictures of all three of these locations. They have Jacobs well, John 4:4-42, and I think they still actually use the well.

They have identified the Tomb of Lazarus, the Via Dolorosa and the Damascus Gate. They have even found the Garden of Gethsemane, all unearthed and cataloged, all biblical geographics, all confirmed by the bible, all confirmed by Archaeology.

It just makes you wonder why people do not believe.

Peace.


Why? because many fictional stories are based on factual places and even real events.

Because church has messed about with the source so that there is more doctrine than bible in a lot of religions.

Because the idea that there is some almighty being just wafting around out there watching us is too much for many to comprehend.

To name but a few reasons
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Post by Mickiel »

Victoria;1198904 wrote: Why? because many fictional stories are based on factual places and even real events.

Because church has messed about with the source so that there is more doctrine than bible in a lot of religions.

Because the idea that there is some almighty being just wafting around out there watching us is too much for many to comprehend.

To name but a few reasons




The bible is not fictional, its history, and your denial of it cannot change history. No matter what you believe or deny, you cannot change history. You can ignore it if you so choose, but you cannot make history " Go Away." Archaeology will stop any effort to change or deny our history.

I understand that churchs have more doctrines than bible , but that still does not change history. Humans have a history of messing up everything they get their hands on, both Atheist and Theist included. Ignorance has no limits.

Your frustration with churchs, or your unbelief in God, cannot change reality, it can only give your mind the reality it seeks comfort in.

When Jesus died the " Veil of the Temple" was rent in two from top to bottom, and the earth did quake, Matt.27:45-51. You can go to Jerusalem right now and actually stand at Calvary and look at the side of the mountian, count the " Layers of Years", and see the earthquake evidence using your own eyes and the science of Archaeology, just sitting there in the mountian for all to see.

Peace.
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Post by Victoria »

[QUOTE=Mickiel;1198919]The bible is not fictional,

How do you know?

Its a great story but so was the Da vinci code loads of real places loads of factual stuff but still just a silly bit of fiction..
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Post by Mickiel »

Victoria;1199082 wrote: [QUOTE=Mickiel;1198919]The bible is not fictional,

How do you know?

Its a great story but so was the Da vinci code loads of real places loads of factual stuff but still just a silly bit of fiction..




I am not obligated to convince anyone of the bibles relevance , other than myself. I have proved it to myself, and hold no intrest in proving it to anyonelse. I think God does a good enough Job at doing that to whomever he will, and eventually he will open every human to see the truth.

I will be glad when my time comes.

I have lived 54 years and considered all possibilitys. As for me, I have concluded that there must be a God. He is not how the christians describe him, he is unlike anything any other religion has taught about him. We all have been absolutely wrong about him.

And I am anxious to learn about him, from him. I only hope that day will come.

Peace.
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Post by Victoria »

[QUOTE=Mickiel;1199102][QUOTE=Victoria;1199082]



. I have proved it to myself, and hold no intrest in proving it to anyonelse.



Strange..why such long preaching posts if you have no wish to prove something either to yourself or others. Maybe because if you say it often enough you really will believe?
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Post by Mickiel »

Victoria;1199158 wrote: [QUOTE=Mickiel;1199102][QUOTE=Victoria;1199082]



. I have proved it to myself, and hold no intrest in proving it to anyonelse.



Strange..why such long preaching posts if you have no wish to prove something either to yourself or others. Maybe because if you say it often enough you really will believe?




No, because I say it so much it shows that I believe. I am not a preacher, and hold no intrest in preachers. My post are long because I have a lot to say,simply that. I can be longwinded, yes. But I try to keep each individual post short so it is easier to read. I have an awful lot of Archaeological Evidence, but I am only giving it out in short burst. Just a few a day, easier to read.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

[QUOTE=Victoria;1199158][QUOTE=Mickiel;1199102][QUOTE=Victoria;1199082]



. I have proved it to myself, and hold no intrest in proving it to anyonelse.



Strange..why such long preaching posts if you have no wish to prove something either to yourself QUOTE]



And listen, I plainly stated that I have proved it to myself, you stated that I have no wish to prove it to myself, that is not what I plainly said. You need to pay just a bit more attention. I don't like it when people put words in my mouth that I didnot say.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

I have much more material to go through and I will keep it as short and as simple as I can. I will respond to all questions that are given in respect. I have a very low tolerance for disrespect. I understand disagreement, but I do not understand disrespect.

This is a simple topic, I know it may enrage certain Atheist, because it goes against their flow. But I am not concerned with Atheist, this post is for those interested in Archaeology and the Bible.

Peace.
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Post by Victoria »

No disrespect intended but as always the peace mentioned at the end of your posts does not extend to those not in agreement or those who challenge your belief..

As I have always found as soon as anyone challenges the religous they fall back on quotes about the devil about unbelievers and about how all will be reveiled at some future time..



I suppose if it makes you happy..... peace
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Post by Mickiel »

Victoria;1199429 wrote: No disrespect intended but as always the peace mentioned at the end of your posts does not extend to those not in agreement or those who challenge your belief..

As I have always found as soon as anyone challenges the religous they fall back on quotes about the devil about unbelievers and about how all will be reveiled at some future time..



I suppose if it makes you happy..... peace




I am not a religious man, and I don't mind challanges, I just asked you not to say that I said something which I didnot say. I have found that people will misquote you when you challange them, so I look to keep them from doing it. The Peace I end with does extend to everyone.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

Archaeology and the bible is about all we have as far as physical evidence of God on earth, you should then take this very serious. Look, I am not playing a game with any of you, this stuff needs to be examined, its OUR Life involved. We Live, and we live for a reason. We are NOT happenstance self created life. There is something. " Something", is out there, there is Something that has CAUSED Life!

Do the math. There is " Something", or there is the " Nothing", you know, the belief that all this began from " Nothing." We have to search for a place, the world is not a place that popped out from nothing, its just not! Somewhere there is a REASON to find explination!

So, as with any explination of truth, " ALL" things must be examined. Science avoids God at its peak, Evolution will dismiss God, in order to explain what it needs to evaluate. If you then follow that, where does it lead you?

Does evolution teach you Love, it cannot give Love. It cannot teach you how to get along with others. It cannot give you patience, or Joy, or Peace and a way to overcome those things which trap human nature into its failures in Characther.

And let me show why.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1200723 wrote:

Does evolution teach you Love, it cannot give Love. It cannot teach you how to get along with others. It cannot give you patience, or Joy, or Peace and a way to overcome those things which trap human nature into its failures in Characther.

And let me show why.

Peace.




Does science or evolution teach you how to Love your Children? What gives you the " Feelings" that you have for others? Is that science, no its not. Its an inward gift from above. What makes humans forgive and have Mercy, is that technology? What leads you to feed birds and animals, evolution, oh no! You have an inward drive to push out these acts of Love and care, that comes directly from your creator, nothingelse, by this you can know he is there. Don't give these things to evolution, that is an insult to reality.

You feed your children because you want them to live, and develop, God is no different. Your children make wrong choices, but you do not kill them for it, or condemn them, God is no different. There exist a wailing wall in Jerusalem, where prayers to God are offered each and every day. People moan and cry to our God, because this world is a ghetto. We have forgotten our creator, and allowed the unfeeling Atheist of this world to push their theology on us.

They attack theology, they crush all things that should be attributed to God, they pin us down and pull us out of our belief, in order to tune us into the great Nothing. That belief which gives the things of God to a computer, makes us saints of science, that new world anti-christ. That power which persuades.

And I want to unveil that power for exactly what it is.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

Revealing deception often means we have to look at the people who are trying to distort the truth. You know, the people who have their own agenda, who worship creation rather than creator. These people will stop at nothing to distort and discredit the truth from which we came.

I was speaking with a person the other day, telling them about the discovery of King Hezekiahs Tunnel which he built by the city of David, 2Chron.32:30, and how Archaeology again and again confirms the biblical accounts of history, and yet people refuse to accept reality, really because of their denial of God.

When you deny God, you are denying reality, and trying to replace it with anything you can.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

[QUOTE=Mickiel;

When you deny God, you are denying reality, and trying to replace it with anything you can.

Peace.


To deny God, you must also deny Archaeology and our past. You simply must do this if you deny God, a person who would deny their own history is simply deceived.

They have found the tomb of Darius-1 the Great, Ezra 6:1-12. They got yet another biblical characthers grave, he existed, and the bible records his existence.

Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Rebekah, Leah , and Jacob, all biblical characthers, were buried in Hebron in a Cave called " The Cave of Machpelah", purchased by Abraham, Genesis 23. Do you know they have found this cave beneath a Temple. They located it, theyt have it, its real and the bible records it.

Peace.
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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1201654 wrote: Abraham, Sarah, Issac, Rebekah, Leah , and Jacob, all biblical characthers, were buried in Hebron in a Cave called " The Cave of Machpelah", purchased by Abraham, Genesis 23. Do you know they have found this cave beneath a Temple. They located it, theyt have it, its real and the bible records it.I don't know that they have found a burial site with that history, I dispute it, perhaps you can provide some detail for your claim.
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Post by Mickiel »

spot;1201657 wrote: I don't know that they have found a burial site with that history, I dispute it, perhaps you can provide some detail for your claim.




Research the data for yourself, its all on the internet. I have listed nothing that is not real Archaeology in this post-article. The Cave has been located below the " Haram El-Khalil" ( which means the sacred precint of the freind of the merciful one, God) in Hebron, and it is today a Muslim Mosque.

References as early as the Hellenistic Period ( 2nd century B.C.) testify that this is the authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs. The Cave was explored by the Augustine Canons in 1119. Now there are claims that they have their bones, but they are not allowing outsiders to examine them, so I am not sure about the bones.

Peace.
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Post by Mickiel »

Mickiel;1201663 wrote: Research the data for yourself, its all on the internet. I have listed nothing that is not real Archaeology in this post-article. The Cave has been located below the " Haram El-Khalil" ( which means the sacred precint of the freind of the merciful one, God) in Hebron, and it is today a Muslim Mosque.

References as early as the Hellenistic Period ( 2nd century B.C.) testify that this is the authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs. The Cave was explored by the Augustine Canons in 1119. Now there are claims that they have their bones, but they are not allowing outsiders to examine them, so I am not sure about the bones.

Peace.




You can punch " Haram El-Khalil" into your computer and see the evidence for yourself. Pictures and all. They even Have " Abrahams Tree", and consider it a Holy Spot. Abraham pitched his tent in Hebrons Plains. Hebron is a mountianous region south of Jerusalem, 1000 meters above sea level. Abraham bought the cave of Machpela from Ephron the Hittite and buried Sarah there. Located in the center of Hebron, it became the tomb of the Patriarchs and their wives.

Peace.
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Post by spot »

Mickiel;1201663 wrote: Research the data for yourself, its all on the internet. I have listed nothing that is not real Archaeology in this post-article. The Cave has been located below the " Haram El-Khalil" ( which means the sacred precint of the freind of the merciful one, God) in Hebron, and it is today a Muslim Mosque.

References as early as the Hellenistic Period ( 2nd century B.C.) testify that this is the authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs. The Cave was explored by the Augustine Canons in 1119. Now there are claims that they have their bones, but they are not allowing outsiders to examine them, so I am not sure about the bones.

Peace.


It's not the existence of the cave I challenged, it's the identification you claim as history. Why do you think it's been authenticated by archaeologists as Abraham's? Augustine Canons in 1119 had a vested interest in declaring their belief, just as you do. Archaeologists are rather more careful in working through evidence rather than belief.

2nd century BC claims of authenticity have a 2000 year gap between the claim and the actuality, that's more in line with either folk tradition or sheer optimistic propaganda (much as Helena of Constantinople's claims about sites in Jerusalem were).
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