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abbey
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Post by abbey »

magenta flame;702239 wrote: My apologies JD but no one else will show them. I guess I've just come to the end of my tether on this issue . Too much debating and nit picking without ever realising what we are actually debating..............the reality is so much worse . We can talk about the calibre of weapons till the cows come home, give them special names that sound mysterious and angry. But rarely we are shown what those weapons do. ANd we must know, we must be shown. Because otherwise this crap will continue until we are all exhausted and we beocome trully worse than any medieval barbarians could have ever been.



I don't want anymore US soldiers killed. I want to see them go off to university and have kids and be happy. I don't want anymore Iraqis killed. I want to see them build their country under their own processes and religions. This war has to STOP. I want the suffering to end on both sides . I don't want to have my friends sons sent to a certain death or maiming. I don't want to have to think about poor dead soldiers the next time I fill my tank up with petrol. It's si,ply not worth it.Good post MJ
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Post by RedGlitter »

Get off the kids altready. That's like me coming here and browbeating everyone about all the ANIMALS getting killed in this war. We know that's your agenda already. Enough. As far as you wanting us out of Iraq- how many letters have you written to my government? When are you launching your protest? It looks like your big try is doing it here and that isn't necessary as well it's about useless. I'm sure somebody will quote me so you can read this. :thinking:

Spot, with all due respect, that's poppycock.
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

MF

To clear up your confusion - I had my husband delivered in a Flag Draped Coffin.

Patsy
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Post by abbey »

Patsy Warnick;702587 wrote: MF

To clear up your confusion - I had my husband delivered in a Flag Draped Coffin.



Patsy
Patsy :yh_hugs

About time we put this one to bed guys.
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Post by spot »

RedGlitter;702586 wrote: Get off the kids altready. That's like me coming here and browbeating everyone about all the ANIMALS getting killed in this war.I wonder whether you realize that these are real children, really dead, really blown apart by US ordnance, that are under discussion? Lots and lots of them. Maybe those explicit pictures do belong in this thread after all if you haven't got that into your head. Equating them with dead animals is not really likely to soothe their parents now, is it. I'm not sure how you could manage to post that.

RedGlitter wrote: Spot, with all due respect, that's poppycock.I refute that. My words are all meaningful, you just choose not to isolate any of them and explain why I'm mistaken. Go back and pick out what you have a problem with, and explain why it is that you think you're right about it. Stop emoting, try to make a valid point.
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Post by JacksDad »

You did warn us Mags.

Again. There are people here who do not need to see that.

Whether those with friends/family in the war or veterans.

We know that death is ugly. No matter an adult, child or animal.

And war is death. Like it or not.

Is it possible for this thread to become a war discussion and still have respect for those who died and their loved ones?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

LilacDragon;702124 wrote: You seem to be as in the dark as MF.



Try comparing the number of civilians killed by the U.S. military as compared to the insurgents that arrived "in country" after the fall of Hussein.



I am outraged too. That people like you - who seem so intelligent - are willing to condemn a group that follows a rather strict code (except maybe for those roque few) and believe the propaganda spewed by the insurgents and their supporters.


The point being made here is not the number killed directly by the US military but the overall number killed as a direct result of the invasion.

At the end of the day, this war is illegal, immoral and unsupportable.

This is not an attack on the soldiers fighting the war but directly at those responsible for starting it.
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Post by spot »

JacksDad;702616 wrote: Is it possible for this thread to become a war discussion and still have respct for those who died and their loved ones?I'm not sure, JD. Why is there this automatic assumption of respect? In what way was it earned? Why do I owe a duty of respect to any dead, serviceman or otherwise? I know enough not to speak ill of the dead, that's common courtesy, but respect goes rather beyond that. I detest patriotism so I'm scarcely likely to applaud anyone for signing up as a patriotic act. I can't think of an occasion when "the enemy" was a genuine threat to the US economy or way of life or homeland security. What motive has any serviceman that I should find respectable, whether he died or not?
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Post by abbey »

MF, Despite the fact I deleted your link I do believe we all have the right to our own opinion.

The thing is, despite the fact you " put enough warnings there " voyeurism is the nature of the beast.
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Post by RedGlitter »

spot;702621 wrote: I detest patriotism so I'm scarcely likely to applaud anyone for signing up as a patriotic act.


Then I don't think we could help you to understand. I used to be the same way...couldn't stand gestures of patriotism, couldn't stand the military (well, still can't) but somewhere something changed. Wow. I think I'll take Abbey's suggestion and let it rest because in a small forum such as this you really can't discuss this stuff without (even unintentionally) offending someone.
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Post by spot »

abbey;702632 wrote: MF, Despite the fact I deleted your link I do believe we all have the right to our own opinion.

The thing is, despite the fact you " put enough warnings there " voyeurism is the nature of the beast.


On a point of information, I didn't click it and I have no idea where it was pointed at.
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Post by JacksDad »

I never said it was earned, Spot. You I have respect for. I'm honestly shocked that you would assume such a thing of me.

My post was regarding the common courtesy that you mention.

This thread sucks.
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Post by abbey »

Scrat;702643 wrote: I have something against the US and its sheeple AND I WAS BORN HERE!!!



I think MF has a deep concern with this. Australia is a member of the coalition of the willing and just like in the US most Aussies are against the involvement. Her concerns go even deeper than that.



How insensitive? How insensitive are Americans to the sand niggers and ragheads? There are very few Americans alive that give a rats ass about the people in Iraq. Most americans are selfish and conceited narcissistic animals that can't or don't care to see beyond their nose.



You can try to defend the indefensible, which is what America has come to stand for. I think we get what we deserve. As for the people who have loved ones there, I do believe it at this point it is a choice to go there. If a "patriot" wants to take an RPG for Bush or a snipers bullet, have at it. Don't come crying to me about it Bollocks

They have no choice!
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

abbey;702648 wrote: Bollocks

They have no choice!


As was often said at the hight of the Troubles - they had the choice when they signed up.
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Post by abbey »

Bryn Mawr;702650 wrote: As was often said at the hight of the Troubles - they had the choice when they signed up.Of course they did!

They had the choice to sign up or stay on the dole.

They had the choice to sign up or stay in a dead end job.

They had the choice to defend their country against halfwitted egomaniacs.

Thank christ they did!
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Oh, for God sake

As I replied MF - what good does it do to argue/fight/insult eachother?

MF has expressed her compassion for the children - So, I asked what her plan was.?

89% of Americans want our troops home now.

but if we are not united all our efforts will go on deaf ears.

Spot - in your next life as a dog - do you want to be loved or kicked?

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Post by abbey »

magenta flame;702651 wrote: Gosh I hope you're not calling me a voyeur . I'm just not turned off at that kind of stuff used to it I guess. the soldier pic was a mortuary photo and military photo that could only have come from a person stationed with that mortuary unit.



the pics of the dead children are already in the public domain and if you had of looked carefully, have already been in newpapers across the world. Ahhh but they are still lying in the rubble or on hospital beds, with half their limbs missing.



To be honest i'm actually quite cross with myself about putting those pics up because I think that if it didn't have a US soldier amongst them no one would have battered an eyelid. Pity.
Mag, I am the voyeur.

Two images I shall take to bed tonight are those dreadful pictures and the images of the dogs needing a home (no detriment) I saw today.

I am not a US citizen I will not just carry the pics of the soldier but of those poor children.

I'm not cross with you Maj, I envy your passion.

I just feel for the families & friends of loved ones lost.
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

abbey;702653 wrote: Of course they did!

They had the choice to sign up or stay on the dole.

They had the choice to sign up or stay in a dead end job.

They had the choice to defend their country against halfwitted egomaniacs.

Thank christ they did!


Yes, they had the choice - and the halfwitted egomaniacs are respected politicians now.

So what good did the killings of the Troubles do? Who did they benefit? Thank Christ for what?
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Patsy Warnick;702654 wrote: Oh, for God sake

As I replied MF - what good does it do to argue/fight/insult eachother?

MF has expressed her compassion for the children - So, I asked what her plan was.?

89% of Americans want our troops home now.

but if we are not united all our efforts will go on deaf ears.

Spot - in your next life as a dog - do you want to be loved or kicked?

Patsy


It's unclear what you want to unite your efforts towards - if its with 89% of your fellow countrymen then you're backing Spot?

I'm not sure you're in any position to assign Karma and allocate anyone's next life.
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Post by abbey »

Bryn Mawr;702659 wrote: Yes, they had the choice - and the halfwitted egomaniacs are respected politicians now.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5307533527

Lest you forget.

Thank Christ Iraq does'nt now have this madman in power.

Ps........Dont worry, you dont see him swinging.
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Post by JacksDad »

Again. The f'n media.

Thank you Abbey, again. :-6

Here's pic's from my hometown in 1967.







This is Newark, New Jersey. The United States of America.

Lyndon Johnson a Democrat was President of the U.S.

Apologies for being my own hypocrite and I hope someone edits this post before long.

There are threads arguing the war in Iraq.

THIS one needs to die.

Not for me. But for the simple compassion.

Or maybe it's just my time to leave.

Christ. I was on the internet before Al Gore invented it. I'm pretty sure there are forums dedicated to this kind of bullsh1t.

:-5

Apologies for being my own hypocrite
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Post by Patsy Warnick »

Byrn

I stated 89% of Americans want this WAR to stop & all to come home now..

Arguing/insulting eachother does nothing - absolutely a waste of energy towards eachother. If we want this war to stop then we - WE that all of us need to put our energy towards that solution. Byrn that means use your spit to your Politicians etc..

How are those statements relating to Spot?

That statement was part of my reply to MF when she E-mailed me.

MF is on her Soap Box for the children - the innocent victims associated with this war, well then these photos that were released should've had just those children to get her point across and not the soldiers fighting this war..

As far as Karma - Spot seems to feel compassion is wasted if he doesn't direct it..

Red has compassion for Animals and again spit is wasted to insult her - that doesn't make her a bad person.

Reading thru this thread is see alot of compassion - can our concerns/comments be directed towards a postive solution.

Does anyone here have a solution on how to get this war to stop - so the killing can stop and everyone goes home.

Stop wasting spit - stop disecting every comment - LET'S STOP THE WAR PEOPLE.

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Post by JacksDad »

Patsy Warnick;702686 wrote:

Red has compassion for Animals and again spit is wasted to insult her - that doesn't make her a bad person.

Patsy


For the record that was not intended to insult Terri but to slap mags in the face.

There I go dissecting.:rolleyes:
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Bryn Mawr;702650 wrote: As was often said at the hight of the Troubles - they had the choice when they signed up.


abbey;702653 wrote: Of course they did!

They had the choice to sign up or stay on the dole.

They had the choice to sign up or stay in a dead end job.

They had the choice to defend their country against halfwitted egomaniacs.

Thank christ they did!


Bryn Mawr;702659 wrote: Yes, they had the choice - and the halfwitted egomaniacs are respected politicians now.

So what good did the killings of the Troubles do? Who did they benefit? Thank Christ for what?


abbey;702661 wrote: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5307533527

Lest you forget.

Thank Christ Iraq does'nt now have this madman in power.

Ps........Dont worry, you dont see him swinging.


Abbey, I think this train has derailed itself slightly.

When I mentioned to the Troubles I was referring to Ireland - always euphemistically called "The Troubles" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles)

I therefore assumed that the halfwitted poloticians you were referring to were Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams.

Whilst I cannot view the video, from your comment I can guess, and I think we might be at cross purposes here.
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Post by abbey »

Not unusual for me Bryn. :wah:
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Post by JacksDad »

magenta flame;702732 wrote: Am I the only one raising their hand?:D HEY I become normal when Beered up:wah:


:wah:

I'm in.

:D
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Post by spot »

abbey;702661 wrote: Thank Christ Iraq does'nt now have this madman in power.I wonder why I add posts to this thread, nobody reads a word I say.

Here, since you seem to think removing him has been an improvement to anyone at all... Post #13:

I particularly draw your attention to "PLEASE the last thing I need is someone to argue with me and tell me the war is for our own good, because I live in Iraq and I can tell you, we had a better life...". The entry is titled "Sunshine is a 15-year-old girl in Mosul, northern Iraq". Perhaps you think it's a fraud?

Calling people mad is a cheap get-out from dealing with reality.
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Post by spot »

spot;702473 wrote: I see occasional news mention of incidents like the Blackwater massacre


To keep the thread updated, I note that A former Blackwater guard has been sentenced to life in prison and three others to 30 years over the killing of 14 Iraqi civilians in 2007.

Nicholas Slatten and three others were convicted last year for the killings in Baghdad's crowded Nisoor Square. A further 17 Iraqis were injured as the private contractors opened fire to clear the way for a US convoy. The shootings sparked international outrage and a debate over the role of defence contractors in warfare.

Slatten faced a charge of murder, while the other men faced multiple counts of manslaughter, attempted manslaughter and using firearms while committing a felony. In a court in Washington DC, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard were all sentenced to 30 years in prison for their involvement in the killings. The men had claimed they were under fire from insurgents but prosecutors successfully argued what happened was an unprovoked ambush against civilians.

US Blackwater guards jailed for Iraq deaths - BBC News



I'll bump the thread again when I see them being released. Shall we have a sweepstake on when? I'll take 2017.
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Post by FourPart »

I think it's absolutely right that such actions should be held to account. The question is whether terrorists get similar sentences when, on the rare occasions they get caught to stand trial?
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Post by spot »

FourPart;1477454 wrote: I think it's absolutely right that such actions should be held to account. The question is whether terrorists get similar sentences when, on the rare occasions they get caught to stand trial?


That's simple enough to check. My money would be that they get heavier sentences than that on average. Would you like some examples?
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Post by Bruv »

spot;1477447 wrote: Slatten faced a charge of murder, while the other men faced multiple counts of manslaughter, attempted manslaughter and using firearms while committing a felony.


Nothing to do with the topic..............but how can manslaughter be 'attempted'?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Post by spot »

Bruv;1477477 wrote: Nothing to do with the topic..............but how can manslaughter be 'attempted'?


Presumably pulling a trigger and missing, while having no idea of whose lives one's being reckless of.
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Post by FourPart »

Bruv;1477477 wrote: Nothing to do with the topic..............but how can manslaughter be 'attempted'?
Good question. The difference between murder & manslaughter being that murder is premeditated. If a killing is attempted, then it is premeditated & therefore murder. The question might be, however, if someone acted under orders, even knowing that the orders were unlawful.
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Post by Bruv »

spot;1477479 wrote: Presumably pulling a trigger and missing, while having no idea of whose lives one's being reckless of.


No sorry............that's like an attempted accident.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Post by FourPart »

Bruv;1477517 wrote: No sorry............that's like an attempted accident.
That's going to be the next approach of the litigation lawyers.

"Have you had an accident that was deliberately caused by someone else?".
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Re: Iraq war pics

Post by spot »

spot wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2015 4:09 pm spot;702473 wrote: I see occasional news mention of incidents like the Blackwater massacre


To keep the thread updated, I note that A former Blackwater guard has been sentenced to life in prison and three others to 30 years over the killing of 14 Iraqi civilians in 2007.

Nicholas Slatten and three others were convicted last year for the killings in Baghdad's crowded Nisoor Square. A further 17 Iraqis were injured as the private contractors opened fire to clear the way for a US convoy. The shootings sparked international outrage and a debate over the role of defence contractors in warfare.

Slatten faced a charge of murder, while the other men faced multiple counts of manslaughter, attempted manslaughter and using firearms while committing a felony. In a court in Washington DC, Paul Slough, Evan Liberty and Dustin Heard were all sentenced to 30 years in prison for their involvement in the killings. The men had claimed they were under fire from insurgents but prosecutors successfully argued what happened was an unprovoked ambush against civilians.

US Blackwater guards jailed for Iraq deaths - BBC News



I'll bump the thread again when I see them being released. Shall we have a sweepstake on when? I'll take 2017.
2020. Given the life and 30 year sentences, I was predictably close.
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Post by Snooz »

I'm sure this is common knowledge but war criminal Erik Prince, the founder of Blackwater (mercenaries) who hired these war criminals is the brother of Secretary of Education Betsy DeVos, one of the very few original people Trump hired for his cabinet. She's spent her time as secretary trying to privatize education in the same way her war criminal brother has tried to privatize the military.

And Trump love his war criminals, these Blackwater guys aren't the first to be pardoned.
Trump angered military leaders in November when he granted clemency to Gallagher as one of a number of interventions in cases of service members accused of killings in Afghanistan and Iraq.

In Gallagher’s case, Trump ordered a promotion for the special warfare operator first class who had been cleared by a military jury in 2018 of murder but convicted of posing with the body. “Good story behind this, got him with my hunting knife,” Gallagher had boasted in an email to a friend that contained a photograph of him holding the deceased captive by the head.

Just weeks before Trump interceded, Adm Mike Gilday, the US navy’s chief of operations, denied Gallagher’s request for clemency and upheld a sentence of a reduction in rank.

“The Navy will NOT be taking away War Fighter and Navy Seal Eddie Gallagher’s Trident pin,” Trump tweeted on 21 November. “The case was handled very badly from the beginning.”

Gallagher was allowed to retire from the service as a Seal, retaining an additional $200,000 pension he would have forfeited had his demotion stood.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... war-crimes
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Re: Iraq war pics

Post by magentaflame »

Still proud of this thread. Taught me resilience against others.
The 'radical' left just wants everyone to have food, shelter, healthcare, education and a living wage. Man that's radical!....ooooohhhh Scary!

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