God won't let evil men destroy His plans
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
No one comes into this world without their chosing it and no leaves without their consent. The question is who is the Who that does the chosing. A loving God would never hurt his children. God is not even aware of the existence of this joke we call the physical universe.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
zinkyusa;614374 wrote: No one comes into this world without their chosing it and no leaves without their consent. The question is who is the Who that does the chosing. A loving God would never hurt his children. God is not even aware of the existence of this joke we call the physical universe.
ummm good post
ummm good post
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
zinkyusa;614374 wrote: No one comes into this world without their chosing it and no leaves without their consent. The question is who is the Who that does the chosing. A loving God would never hurt his children. God is not even aware of the existence of this joke we call the physical universe.
I'm a one, in the context of "No one comes into this world" etc, and I have no recollection of making such a decision. If I don't remember it, it's not me that made it. If I remember it after I die, it's not me remembering it then either. I'm me, now, here.
As for God's distance from day-to-day living, you choose your definition and you takes your choice. Christianity has never gone for a Hands-Off Almighty. If you work within a religion which incorporates any experience of the divine, and we take your statement as well, then we've got two definitions running. Which is God? It can't possibly be both. You either need another word for the one you don't want to include, or you need to say that the one you're excluding doesn't exist.
I'm a one, in the context of "No one comes into this world" etc, and I have no recollection of making such a decision. If I don't remember it, it's not me that made it. If I remember it after I die, it's not me remembering it then either. I'm me, now, here.
As for God's distance from day-to-day living, you choose your definition and you takes your choice. Christianity has never gone for a Hands-Off Almighty. If you work within a religion which incorporates any experience of the divine, and we take your statement as well, then we've got two definitions running. Which is God? It can't possibly be both. You either need another word for the one you don't want to include, or you need to say that the one you're excluding doesn't exist.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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God won't let evil men destroy His plans
spot;614242 wrote: Most of the children who died in the tsunami weren't Christians, and presumably some of those who were Christian weren't sufficiently good ones to qualify for admission to heaven. Death, for them, is the gateway to eternal damnation and torment.
Sufficiently good to qualify?? I'm not used to you making such errors, Spot. Actions don't "qualify" one to enter heaven. One only needs to believe and ask, if Jesus told the Truth*.
*Which, of course, I believe He did. I phrased it that way to stay in the spirit of the thread.
Sufficiently good to qualify?? I'm not used to you making such errors, Spot. Actions don't "qualify" one to enter heaven. One only needs to believe and ask, if Jesus told the Truth*.
*Which, of course, I believe He did. I phrased it that way to stay in the spirit of the thread.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
spot;614596 wrote: I'm a one, in the context of "No one comes into this world" etc, and I have no recollection of making such a decision. If I don't remember it, it's not me that made it. If I remember it after I die, it's not me remembering it then either. I'm me, now, here.
As for God's distance from day-to-day living, you choose your definition and you takes your choice. Christianity has never gone for a Hands-Off Almighty. If you work within a religion which incorporates any experience of the divine, and we take your statement as well, then we've got two definitions running. Which is God? It can't possibly be both. You either need another word for the one you don't want to include, or you need to say that the one you're excluding doesn't exist.
Certainly I don't mean to speak for you Spot, only for myself. I believe that our apparent experience of individual separate conciousness is illusory. It has not really occurred and is apparently maintained only by our belief in it. In reality there is only mind and that mind is one. You are correct there are two definitions running when I try to relate my apparent experience in the world while keeping in mind what reality is. I would call them a Level 1 God (reality) and Level 2 God (The God we have made up) in the physical universe. Only one is real. In my view the me that seems to expereince the physical universe as a separate discreet indivdual is not real. In fact everything that appears to have happened in the physical universe is not real whether that be Christianity, Tsunamis, physical death, or anything else. The problem is that to say it not real is not helpful to us when we appear to be experiencing these things. We must still do something while we believe ourselves to be here. I choose to look at everything I appear to experience as a classroom and use it to learn the lessons of love and forgiveness I hope will lead me back up the ladder of apparant seperation to oneness. Since I have now explained my definitions there is no contradicition, as long as I stay in my own thought system.
As for God's distance from day-to-day living, you choose your definition and you takes your choice. Christianity has never gone for a Hands-Off Almighty. If you work within a religion which incorporates any experience of the divine, and we take your statement as well, then we've got two definitions running. Which is God? It can't possibly be both. You either need another word for the one you don't want to include, or you need to say that the one you're excluding doesn't exist.
Certainly I don't mean to speak for you Spot, only for myself. I believe that our apparent experience of individual separate conciousness is illusory. It has not really occurred and is apparently maintained only by our belief in it. In reality there is only mind and that mind is one. You are correct there are two definitions running when I try to relate my apparent experience in the world while keeping in mind what reality is. I would call them a Level 1 God (reality) and Level 2 God (The God we have made up) in the physical universe. Only one is real. In my view the me that seems to expereince the physical universe as a separate discreet indivdual is not real. In fact everything that appears to have happened in the physical universe is not real whether that be Christianity, Tsunamis, physical death, or anything else. The problem is that to say it not real is not helpful to us when we appear to be experiencing these things. We must still do something while we believe ourselves to be here. I choose to look at everything I appear to experience as a classroom and use it to learn the lessons of love and forgiveness I hope will lead me back up the ladder of apparant seperation to oneness. Since I have now explained my definitions there is no contradicition, as long as I stay in my own thought system.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
magenta:-6
You won't believe this but I agree with you on that one. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
You won't believe this but I agree with you on that one. LOL
Shalom
Ted:-6
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
Am I ever glad to find out that that pain I experienced as a result of torn rotator cuff surgery wasn't real. I thought there for awhile I was in real pain. Phew! LOL.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Shalom
Ted:-6
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
Next time, Ted, tell them you don't really have an arm for them to not really operate on in the first place.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
spot:-6
Good point. I guess the last time a used a hammer and hit the wrong nail it was all not reality. I guess my nail turning black wasn't real either nor was the pain. Am I ever glad to know that. Wow!!!! Hallelujah!!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
Good point. I guess the last time a used a hammer and hit the wrong nail it was all not reality. I guess my nail turning black wasn't real either nor was the pain. Am I ever glad to know that. Wow!!!! Hallelujah!!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
Ted;615270 wrote: spot:-6
Good point. I guess the last time a used a hammer and hit the wrong nail it was all not reality. I guess my nail turning black wasn't real either nor was the pain. Am I ever glad to know that. Wow!!!! Hallelujah!!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
I expected this of spot, but I did'nt expect you of all people to mock somone elses personal beliefs ted.
Good point. I guess the last time a used a hammer and hit the wrong nail it was all not reality. I guess my nail turning black wasn't real either nor was the pain. Am I ever glad to know that. Wow!!!! Hallelujah!!!
Shalom
Ted:-6
I expected this of spot, but I did'nt expect you of all people to mock somone elses personal beliefs ted.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
zinkyusa;615272 wrote: I expected this of spot, but I did'nt expect you of all people to mock somone elses personal beliefs ted.
The point I was trying to get to, zinky, is that you may indeed be describing something less unreal than what we're aware of, but the only thing I can call "me" is the thing experiencing the unreality. There may well be a "higher me" that will look back on all this and smile at my quaint ways. I don't give a flying toss for that supercilious higher me, I'm interested solely in the level of unreality which I experience - not the level of less unreality that the super-me might be aware of. He's not me. I'm me. I might, indeed, govern my life on the basis of my understanding of an less unreal state of existence. Buddhists do that routinely. I've done it myself. But that less unreal state is no more reality than what I perceive now is reality. Both are perceptions of something unperceived.
What's underlying this - to return to the thread's topic - is that it's fine to live one's own life abdicated from various activities in order to secure beneficial treatment in the afterlife, but it's deviltry to force such abdication on anyone else whether it's a believer doing the forcing or God himself doing it. I think I'd go so far as to say that any all-powerful God is by definition absolutely evil, and consequently could never exist. That just leaves, performing deviltry, those who insist He can and does.
The point I was trying to get to, zinky, is that you may indeed be describing something less unreal than what we're aware of, but the only thing I can call "me" is the thing experiencing the unreality. There may well be a "higher me" that will look back on all this and smile at my quaint ways. I don't give a flying toss for that supercilious higher me, I'm interested solely in the level of unreality which I experience - not the level of less unreality that the super-me might be aware of. He's not me. I'm me. I might, indeed, govern my life on the basis of my understanding of an less unreal state of existence. Buddhists do that routinely. I've done it myself. But that less unreal state is no more reality than what I perceive now is reality. Both are perceptions of something unperceived.
What's underlying this - to return to the thread's topic - is that it's fine to live one's own life abdicated from various activities in order to secure beneficial treatment in the afterlife, but it's deviltry to force such abdication on anyone else whether it's a believer doing the forcing or God himself doing it. I think I'd go so far as to say that any all-powerful God is by definition absolutely evil, and consequently could never exist. That just leaves, performing deviltry, those who insist He can and does.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
zinky:-6
Actually I wasn't mocking your beliefs. I was simply enjoying the moment. I know of others with the same belief. I don't have a problem with that. It was Berkly who presented the idea that reality was mind dependent. I've used that argument many times elsewhere. His arguments were more than just a little interesting.
I am truly sorry if you took it as mocking as it was not intended so. I do like to see the funny side of things including my own thoughts. There is a book out called the "Incredible Shrinking Man" by Dennis Kaye. He was dying of ALS and decided to write a book on the funny things that happened to him. It is a brave man who can look death in the face and laugh at himself. He did it well. He used to be on Peter Gzosky's radio show frequently.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Actually I wasn't mocking your beliefs. I was simply enjoying the moment. I know of others with the same belief. I don't have a problem with that. It was Berkly who presented the idea that reality was mind dependent. I've used that argument many times elsewhere. His arguments were more than just a little interesting.
I am truly sorry if you took it as mocking as it was not intended so. I do like to see the funny side of things including my own thoughts. There is a book out called the "Incredible Shrinking Man" by Dennis Kaye. He was dying of ALS and decided to write a book on the funny things that happened to him. It is a brave man who can look death in the face and laugh at himself. He did it well. He used to be on Peter Gzosky's radio show frequently.
Shalom
Ted:-6
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
spot;615289 wrote: The point I was trying to get to, zinky, is that you may indeed be describing something less unreal than what we're aware of, but the only thing I can call "me" is the thing experiencing the unreality. There may well be a "higher me" that will look back on all this and smile at my quaint ways. I don't give a flying toss for that supercilious higher me, I'm interested solely in the level of unreality which I experience - not the level of less unreality that the super-me might be aware of. He's not me. I'm me. I might, indeed, govern my life on the basis of my understanding of an less unreal state of existence. Buddhists do that routinely. I've done it myself. But that less unreal state is no more reality than what I perceive now is reality. Both are perceptions of something unperceived.
What's underlying this - to return to the thread's topic - is that it's fine to live one's own life abdicated from various activities in order to secure beneficial treatment in the afterlife, but it's deviltry to force such abdication on anyone else whether it's a believer doing the forcing or God himself doing it. I think I'd go so far as to say that any all-powerful God is by definition absolutely evil, and consequently could never exist. That just leaves, performing deviltry, those who insist He can and does.
Spot, suppose the whole idea of physical existence and a seperate conciousness is to keep you so focused on, or distracted by what you are experiencing that you never question it.
A lack of awareness of Reality does not change it's nature. Beings existing on a two dimensional plane may be aware of other dimensions, but that does not change the fact that othe dimensions exist. I think perhaps you over value your experiences if that is all that you are interested in. I don't mean that to be critical in any way.
What's underlying this - to return to the thread's topic - is that it's fine to live one's own life abdicated from various activities in order to secure beneficial treatment in the afterlife, but it's deviltry to force such abdication on anyone else whether it's a believer doing the forcing or God himself doing it. I think I'd go so far as to say that any all-powerful God is by definition absolutely evil, and consequently could never exist. That just leaves, performing deviltry, those who insist He can and does.
Spot, suppose the whole idea of physical existence and a seperate conciousness is to keep you so focused on, or distracted by what you are experiencing that you never question it.
A lack of awareness of Reality does not change it's nature. Beings existing on a two dimensional plane may be aware of other dimensions, but that does not change the fact that othe dimensions exist. I think perhaps you over value your experiences if that is all that you are interested in. I don't mean that to be critical in any way.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
Ted;615291 wrote: zinky:-6
Actually I wasn't mocking your beliefs. I was simply enjoying the moment. I know of others with the same belief. I don't have a problem with that. It was Berkly who presented the idea that reality was mind dependent. I've used that argument many times elsewhere. His arguments were more than just a little interesting.
I am truly sorry if you took it as mocking as it was not intended so. I do like to see the funny side of things including my own thoughts. There is a book out called the "Incredible Shrinking Man" by Dennis Kaye. He was dying of ALS and decided to write a book on the funny things that happened to him. It is a brave man who can look death in the face and laugh at himself. He did it well. He used to be on Peter Gzosky's radio show frequently.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks for the clarification ted. No harm, no foul.
Actually I wasn't mocking your beliefs. I was simply enjoying the moment. I know of others with the same belief. I don't have a problem with that. It was Berkly who presented the idea that reality was mind dependent. I've used that argument many times elsewhere. His arguments were more than just a little interesting.
I am truly sorry if you took it as mocking as it was not intended so. I do like to see the funny side of things including my own thoughts. There is a book out called the "Incredible Shrinking Man" by Dennis Kaye. He was dying of ALS and decided to write a book on the funny things that happened to him. It is a brave man who can look death in the face and laugh at himself. He did it well. He used to be on Peter Gzosky's radio show frequently.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Thanks for the clarification ted. No harm, no foul.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
God won't let evil men destroy His plans
zinky:-6
I find the idea of other dimensions intriguing. It would appear that quantum theory is heading in that direction as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I find the idea of other dimensions intriguing. It would appear that quantum theory is heading in that direction as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6