I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness...

weinbeck · Post by **weinbeck** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 2:47 pm

I hope not - I hope there are others out there who are prepared to stand up and be counted. You've obviously all read the heated debate going on about top-shelf magazines. Am I the only Christian out there who takes this view? Am I a bigot? Am I banging my head against a brick wall for nothing? Come on, let's hear it! There must be more than four people who have a view on the matter. Anybody out there been sucked into this through choice of financial necessity? Come alive - we're waiting for your call!

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:22 pm

Ok Mr Wienbeck.

I think the entire world has gone to hell in a handbasket.

In 1961. Or was it '51? or '41?.....

It's just getting worse and worse every f'ing day.

I have a six year old son. Born after 9/11.

What a great time to be a Dad.

I teach him Love and respect for others and the planet.

What more can I do?

I fear for his future, but I have no control over that.

New World Order, EFT's, ATM's, tinfoil hats.

WTF?

I don't appreciate walking into a store and having porn there for my son to see.

It's disgusting how that is openly displayed.

But I am not against porn either.

I just feel helpless. I don't take him to places that display porn or paraphenilia.

It exists and should he find it by himself I hope I've taught him enough to question me.

To illegalize it or it's display....

That ain't gonna happen.

It's too far gone.

Now I have to go post something useless and silly.

And vacuous.

Sweet Tooth · Post by **Sweet Tooth** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:30 pm

can you explain whats going on?

weinbeck · Post by **weinbeck** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:48 pm

Sweet Tooth;602917 wrote: can you explain whats going on?

All self-explanatory. If you go into the Christianity section, you'll find my thread: "Top-shelf magazines and all that." The discussion rages on for three pages. I appear to be the only one who disapproves of seeing top-shelf magazines being rammed down people's throats feft, right and centre. As a practising Christian there are moral issue here as well. Don't worry - it's not as heavy as it sounds! Join us - I'd love to hear from you!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 3:53 pm

I didn't know whether to post here or in the other thread...

WB, I read your post in the other thread, thank you for your insight. I would never fault you for your faith. If it works for you, then it's doing its job. But I do fault christianity itself on my own behalf. For a lot of things. When I hear sex/guilt/sin/unclean/God in the same context, it reminds me of a lot of the hangups I had to contend with in my earlier days and then my blood starts to boil.

It's not you personally. :-6

Maybe I'm jaded about stuff. I had a very cool and smart mother who never censored anything when I was coming up. Anything I wanted to read was allowable; all my questions got answered. Mom had copies of The Joy of Sex and The Happy Hooker laying around and I read them cover to cover. I was about 7 as I remember. Dad had porn in the closet and of course I checked that out in secret. No big deal was made about this by my parents. Had they made an issue, or tried to "protect" me from it then I might have been more intrigued by it, but it was out in the open more or less so the mystery was pretty much gone.

I *laugh* at porn mags because they're stupid and smarmy and some are downright gross but I'll tell you, Mein Kampf upset me more than any pictures of fun under the sun.

And by the way, I was raised in a christian home.

weinbeck · Post by **weinbeck** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:01 pm

JacksDad;602899 wrote: Ok Mr Wienbeck.

I think the entire world has gone to hell in a handbasket.

In 1961. Or was it '51? or '41?.....

It's just getting worse and worse every f'ing day.

I have a six year old son. Born after 9/11.

What a great time to be a Dad.

I teach him Love and respect for others and the planet.

What more can I do?

I fear for his future, but I have no control over that.

New World Order, EFT's, ATM's, tinfoil hats.

WTF?

I don't appreciate walking into a store and having porn there for my son to see.

It's disgusting how that is openly displayed.

But I am not against porn either.

I just feel helpless. I don't take him to places that display porn or paraphenilia.

It exists and should he find it by himself I hope I've taught him enough to question me.

To illegalize it or it's display....

That ain't gonna happen.

It's too far gone.

Now I have to go post something useless and silly.

And vacuous.

Woe is thee!

:wah: I'm sure you'll both survive, The trouble, what the hell is the country going to be like when he's our age? We've already got hand-wringing ministers of religion refusing to make a stance against paedophilia and homosexuality for fear of driving people from the church. Is nobody prepared to stand up and be counted? The whole world seems to be made up of gutless wimps! If I won the pools or the lottery I'd actually put my money where my mouth is, and start the ball rolling. No bullet can penetrate the Bible - trouble is, that's not what the person might be aiming at!

weinbeck · Post by **weinbeck** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:23 pm

RedGlitter;602947 wrote: I didn't know whether to post here or in the other thread...

WB, I read your post in the other thread, thank you for your insight. I would never fault you for your faith. If it works for you, then it's doing its job. But I do fault christianity itself on my own behalf. For a lot of things. When I hear sex/guilt/sin/unclean/God in the same context, it reminds me of a lot of the hangups I had to contend with in my earlier days and then my blood starts to boil.

It's not you personally. :-6

Maybe I'm jaded about stuff. I had a very cool and smart mother who never censored anything when I was coming up. Anything I wanted to read was allowable; all my questions got answered. Mom had copies of The Joy of Sex and The Happy Hooker laying around and I read them cover to cover. I was about 7 as I remember. Dad had porn in the closet and of course I checked that out in secret. No big deal was made about this by my parents. Had they made an issue, or tried to "protect" me from it then I might have been more intrigued by it, but it was out in the open more or less so the mystery was pretty much gone.

I *laugh* at porn mags because they're stupid and smarmy and some are downright gross but I'll tell you, Mein Kampf upset me more than any pictures of fun under the sun.

And by the way, I was raised in a christian home.

Thanks for your reply. I never realised this issue was such a hot potato! Nothing was ever barred from my household either when I was a kid. but then there wasn't so much on offer, or if there was, you'd have to look for it. My arguement is one seems to be swamped out with those type of magazines. I'm not saying ban the sale of such magazines - that would be impossible, but rather let people want that type of magazine go to those type of bookshops rather than have them two rows up from the Financial Times. Not all women are as liberated as you. My wife snatched one of those magazines fro my hand once: "Disgusting!" She said. "I can't see why they call it Men Only - all I can see is women!" :wah: :wah:

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:32 pm

:wah:

:-6

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:33 pm

weinbeck;602951 wrote: Woe is thee!

:wah: I'm sure you'll both survive, The trouble, what the hell is the country going to be like when he's our age? We've already got hand-wringing ministers of religion refusing to make a stance against paedophilia and homosexuality for fear of driving people from the church. Is nobody prepared to stand up and be counted? The whole world seems to be made up of gutless wimps! If I won the pools or the lottery I'd actually put my money where my mouth is, and start the ball rolling. No bullet can penetrate the Bible - trouble is, that's not what the person might be aiming at!

I'm with ya, wienbeck.

If I had the power I would change it.

Nothing wrong with porn. In an adult bookstore.

Nothing wrong with marijuana paraphenilia. In a headshop.

I can't take my son for an ice cream at the local store for fear of what they might be selling/displaying next!

"Hi. I'd like two popsicles, one buttplug and one issue of Do My Mom."

Shoot me now.

Please.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:38 pm

"Hi. I'd like two popsicles, one buttplug and one issue of Do My Mom."

*SPEWS COKE*

:wah:

That is rank JD. But yeah...I get it.

:wah:

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:45 pm

Yes it is rank but I agree with wienbeck.

What's next?

And it should be stopped.

Is there any longer a defintition for morals?

Post by **spot** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:33 pm

weinbeck;602951 wrote: We've already got hand-wringing ministers of religion refusing to make a stance against paedophiliaYou have? I don't recall reading of any in the UK. I think it might help if you name some here, or link to a newspaper article or two. I assume you're talking about ministers in good standing refusing to make a stance, as opposed to practising paedophiles who have at some point been ministers?

Sweet Tooth · Post by **Sweet Tooth** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:58 pm

I agree with with weinbeck and jacks dad- I don't need that stuff in my kids face- I actually found out what sex was in the 7th grade on the bus- call me sheltered- but ignorance is bliss- I never had sex nor new what was involved until I was 18 and MARRIED! Call me prude but boy, wouldn't that help out our prego teens and teens with STD's these days??

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:29 pm

Call me prude but boy, wouldn't that help out our prego teens and teens with STD's these days??

Yeah...they'd get pregnant faster out of their own ignorance. Grr.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:47 pm

the average age for most teenagers to have a first time sexual experience is thirteen...it is far better to educate and prepare them than to turn a blind eye ot what is happening....we are no longer in the day where you can make a mistake and correct it....ignorance can kill now....i firmly believe in educating your kids ot the realities of life and its consequences....

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:16 pm

guppy;603042 wrote: the average age for most teenagers to have a first time sexual experience is thirteen...it is far better to educate and prepare them than to turn a blind eye ot what is happening....we are no longer in the day where you can make a mistake and correct it....ignorance can kill now....i firmly believe in educating your kids ot the realities of life and its consequences....

So I should explain to my six year old the facts of life? Because the town I live in allows sex to be put in his face?

I was'nt planning on getting him a hooker until he was at least 18!

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:23 pm

Geez...I knew at 6...what's so bad about that?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 5:30 am

Those who oppose pornography always seem remarkable well informed as to content.

If it's consenting adults then what someone does in their own lives is no ones concern but theirs. No one has the right to dictate to another what is and isn't proper or moral in terms of sexual behaviour between adults. Especially not the prurient who use religion to justify their own sick obsession with sex.

I have no problem with pornography with the exception of child pornography or where the participants have no choice in the matter. If you don't like pornography don't look at it.

Incidentally the countries with the lowest teenage pregnancy rates are the ones where people are open about sex and sex education starts in the primary school, not just secondary, and teenagers can get hold of contraceptives if they want them. Although the age at which children become sexually active in the first place also tends to be older and the rate of std's is also lower because they understand the risk they take. Inform the kids and they have more control, it's their choice to make not yours or their parents.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:13 am

I'm not sure if the issue here is porn.

It's the display of porn.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:11 am

Well...I was thinking about that JD, and here's what I came up with.

I rarely drink. I grew up around alcoholics and have a ton of bad memories. I don't like to be around people who are drinking, and I don't enjoy seeing beer ads all over the place. I don't appreciate the national mentality on alcohol. SO...do I have a right to want to limit beer and hard stuff to liquor stores only? I know in some states that's how it is but out here in AZ, you can get it pretty much anywhere. Don't I have a "right" to not be offended or reminded of past bad times by seeing suitcase banners in the convenience stores and having to walk past stacks of Fat Tire? Should my kid have to be exposed to this stuff? What about *my* morals and personal standards? Don't they count?

Or should I do what I do with the porn and just stroll on by?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:19 am

I live in a sheltered area of the country. You do not see porn mags in just any convience store. And if the store should carry these magazines they are in plastic bags with the covers blacked out.

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:21 am

the only reason kids get any sort of fascination with pornography in an unhealthy way is because it is so taboo to discuss. The more a kid knows the less the pictures will have any sway over their attention span.

If sexuality was open and accepted as natural I believe half of the dysfunction would be reduced. The problem isn't the magasine it's the reaction to it.

This thread really ought to be combined with the other. Is there any reason I shouldn't do that?

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:35 am

Going once....

Going twice.........

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:35 am

Honestly in this day and age, you have to talk to your kids about sex and why condoms should be used. There are to many deadly STD's. It's just sad that the discussions have to start happening when a child should still be innocent when it comes to sexual encounters.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue May 01, 2007 7:49 am

With teenagers buying guns and slaughtering each other top shelf magazines seem to be the least of things you should be worrying about.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:05 am

RedGlitter;603430 wrote: Well...I was thinking about that JD, and here's what I came up with.

I rarely drink. I grew up around alcoholics and have a ton of bad memories. I don't like to be around people who are drinking, and I don't enjoy seeing beer ads all over the place. I don't appreciate the national mentality on alcohol. SO...do I have a right to want to limit beer and hard stuff to liquor stores only? I know in some states that's how it is but out here in AZ, you can get it pretty much anywhere. Don't I have a "right" to not be offended or reminded of past bad times by seeing suitcase banners in the convenience stores and having to walk past stacks of Fat Tire? Should my kid have to be exposed to this stuff? What about *my* morals and personal standards? Don't they count?

Or should I do what I do with the porn and just stroll on by?

No offense Red but wouldn't that be like a Vegan wanting meat products removed because they are offensive?

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:36 am

YZGI;604015 wrote: No offense Red but wouldn't that be like a Vegan wanting meat products removed because they are offensive?

Sure YZGI, that;'s my point. Do we just go around saying "Not My Morals!!" and insist on removing everything that offends us?

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue May 01, 2007 9:40 am

RedGlitter;604082 wrote: Sure YZGI, that;'s my point. Do we just go around saying "Not My Morals!!" and insist on removing everything that offends us?
I gotcha. I misread.

911 · Post by **911** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:10 pm

Sheryl;603443 wrote: I live in a sheltered area of the country. You do not see porn mags in just any convience store. And if the store should carry these magazines they are in plastic bags with the covers blacked out.

I was going to ask him where he shops cuz in our quickie stores, they are covered up, too.

I can remember when they weren't. Standing there checking out with bobbies staring back at you. :wah:

And way to go Red! :yh_worshp I agree totally. Just take cigarettes. Now they want to ban them from ALL public places. They could go so far as to say you can't smoke in your car on the public highway! But do they put a ban or extra taxes on alcohol? A much harsher killer of families than tobacco? No. You know why? Because the politians are not going to ban something they enjoy.

We all want to go back to the '50's where everything was dear and sweet and polite. Not going to happen. We let things get too out of hand. Too much "keeping up with the Jones'". Both parents have to work and no one cares about their children anymore.

911 · Post by **911** » Tue May 01, 2007 2:13 pm

koan;603469 wrote: Going once....

Going twice.........

SOLD!

I hate coming to a thread that I have no idea what's going on. Just a continuation of another thread.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:05 pm

I find it rather puzzling that when we talk about sex and children we speak of their "innocence". The opposite would be the word "guilty". Does that mean there is something wrong with sex? Am I guilty of something? If I am, so be it.

Shalom

Ted:-6

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:49 pm

Ted;607945 wrote: I find it rather puzzling that when we talk about sex and children we speak of their "innocence". The opposite would be the word "guilty". Does that mean there is something wrong with sex? Am I guilty of something? If I am, so be it.

Shalom

Ted:-6

You just scored some serious points with me, Ted. :-6

I'd like an answer to that, too.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:23 pm

RedGlitter:-6

We see in the Genesis myth of creation that God saw all that He had done and said it was good. The whole of creation is sacred; the earth, the vastness of the universe, the people, in fact all of life.

I don't believe that sex is wrong. It can, like anything else, be abused. People abuse alcohol. They abuse food. The wise use of our creation is our mandate. Sex education ought to begin at birth and ought to proceed from there. There are many cultures where sexual activity takes place in view of others including the children. Let us, indeed, bring our children up to respect the sacredness of sexuality and not think of it as some "dirty" activity that adults do.

We must each do what we can in this area of instruction in line with the cultural norms in which we find ourselves. But let us not make sex into something dirty or filthy etc.

Shalom

Ted:-6