There Is No God.

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:41 am

•“There are two things which make it impossible to believe that this world is the successful work of an all-wise, all-good, and at the same time, all-powerful being; firstly, the misery which abounds in it everywhere; and secondly, the obvious imperfection of its highest product, man, who is a burlesque of what he should be." Arthur Schopenhauer

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:42 am

“There was a time when religion ruled the world. It was known as the Dark Ages."–

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:45 am

“The most henious and the must cruel crimes of which history has record have been committed under the cover of religion or equally noble motives." – Mohandas Gandhi

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 7:46 am

“Religion does three things quite effectively: Divides people, Controls people, Deludes people. – Carlespie Mary Alice McKinney

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:24 am

Why is it whenever atheists start talking about God, they always do so from the Christian perspective?

Is it the Christian idea of God that you abhor?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:46 am

LarsMac;1436843 wrote: Why is it whenever atheists start talking about God, they always do so from the Christian perspective?

Is it the Christian idea of God that you abhor?
I think the atheists we know best actually come from the Christian perspective; born into it.

For example, most atheists I knew in the past were Jewish & never made Christ part of the equation. Irrelevant.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:04 am

AnneBoleyn;1436845 wrote: I think the atheists we know best actually come from the Christian perspective; born into it.

For example, most atheists I knew in the past were Jewish & never made Christ part of the equation. Irrelevant.

I believe you are right. I know a lot of former Catholics who are atheists, and a number atheists who were Lutheran.

I do know some atheists who simply grew up in a non-religious environment, as well. They never seem to care about the whole religion discussion.

I think the Christian churches and their evangelical drive do more to separate man from God than any other religious - or non-religious - group.

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Sep 29, 2013 9:36 am

LarsMac;1436843 wrote: Why is it whenever atheists start talking about God, they always do so from the Christian perspective?

Is it the Christian idea of God that you abhor?

Atheist's cannot and do not abhor the Christian idea of God simply because they do not believe in this entity.

Post by **jones jones** » Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:23 pm

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:21 pm

LarsMac;1436843 wrote: Why is it whenever atheists start talking about God, they always do so from the Christian perspective?

Is it the Christian idea of God that you abhor?#

Why is it when atheists start talking about god monotheists always assume it is their god that is being talked about and not the one believed in by the others?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:32 pm

How do we know jones jones exists?

Post by **jones jones** » Fri Oct 04, 2013 1:33 pm

gmc;1437250 wrote: How do we know jones jones exists?

Sigh .............

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:05 am

Post by **jones jones** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:06 am

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:46 am

LarsMac;1436843 wrote: Why is it whenever atheists start talking about God, they always do so from the Christian perspective?

Is it the Christian idea of God that you abhor?I think what you and Anne concluded about why an atheist might detest God-discussions where the existence of a God is assumed to be correct.

I highlighted the above because that's the point - God is only an idea - or ideal, as it were. What I find irritating is the fact that God is assumed to be real and the question of: "Is God Real?" had or has been ignored. That, to me, indicates the person with the belief either hasn't bothered to ask that question, or, been strong enough to face it. The finality of God's existence in the mind of the believer who's neglected questioning it becomes relevant criticism.

I have no problem if an individual wants to assume the existence of a God until it's brought up in public discourse where others can be influenced and conversation becomes sloppy. It's at that point that relevance matters.

Imagine hanging out with friends and one or two continue to refer to an entity that exists only in their minds and none of the others have knowledge of the existence of. There are four assumptions that I can come up with which the rest of the participants who care to be engaged might come to: 1) the two are talking hypothetically; 2) the two people are being rude and ignoring the rest of the crowd; 3) the two people are rude in general and are attempting to influence others; 4) the two people are delusional. In the majority of cases I think numbers 3 and 4 are most likely.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:13 pm

jones jones;1437251 wrote: Sigh .............

Only kidding. I am still coming to terms with the reality of my own existence. I am also reasonably satisfied you exist even if only in the fevered imaginings of my own mind, and may live in wales.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:19 pm

gmc;1437246 wrote: #

Why is it when atheists start talking about god monotheists always assume it is their god that is being talked about and not the one believed in by the others?

Well, very simple. A monotheist, by definition, would only believe in One God, therefore it must be that One whom the Atheists would be denying.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:37 pm

LarsMac;1437312 wrote: Well, very simple. A monotheist, by definition, would only believe in One God, therefore it must be that One whom the Atheists would be denying There is the assumption - again without critical thought. You've yet to prove the existence of any god and yet your language is loaded with unquestioned and self-assured references to it. However, the moment a non-believer confronts the issue they're the bad guys. That's screwy. Those in denial are the believers and pacifists on the issue, not the non-believers.

deÂ·ny

1.

state that one refuses to admit the truth or existence of.

"they deny any responsibility for the tragedy"

synonyms:contradict, controvert, repudiate, challenge, counter, contest, oppose, rebut; Moreinformalpoke holes in;

formalgainsay

"the report was denied by witnesses"

antonyms:confirm

refuse to admit the truth of (a concept or proposition that is supported by the majority of scientific or historical evidence).

"an anti-environmentalist campaign group that denies climate change"

2.

refuse to give or grant (something requested or desired) to (someone).

"the inquiry was denied access to intelligence sources"

https://www.google.com/search?client=ub ... 8&oe=utf-8

Oblivion4463 · Post by **Oblivion4463** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:27 pm

LarsMac;1437312 wrote: Well, very simple. A monotheist, by definition, would only believe in One God, therefore it must be that One whom the Atheists would be denying.

Atheists do NOT deny god because He is good and atheists are evil. They deny him because they find fault in Him. They see Him as evil through commonsense and reason. For example, god kills every first born child in the time of Moses and ends up killing hundreds if not thousands of children that had NOTHING to do with anything and did NOT deserve to die, nor did most people that had the plagues on them. Another example is when the jewish people killed every man women and child in the land of canaan when god is NOT supposed to live by the sword of vengeance and blood. God is supposed to be understanding and merciful and to not live by the sword but does the opposite instead. Also god is against gay people and will kill them. God does evil things. God also has the power to end Hell for good and ALLOWS it to continue.

God is seen evil for many good reasons and the people that blindly fallow him dont even realize the wrong that has been done by Him.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:13 pm

Speak for yourself.

This god you talk of, can't be good or evil because it does not exist. The concept of God can't be a 'him' or 'her' because something that doesn't excist can be neither .

and you can't deny it nor prove it.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:46 pm

Oblivion4463;1437318 wrote: Atheists do NOT deny god because He is good and atheists are evil. They deny him because they find fault in Him. They see Him as evil through commonsense and reason. For example, god kills every first born child in the time of Moses and ends up killing hundreds if not thousands of children that had NOTHING to do with anything and did NOT deserve to die, nor did most people that had the plagues on them. Another example is when the jewish people killed every man women and child in the land of canaan when god is NOT supposed to live by the sword of vengeance and blood. God is supposed to be understanding and merciful and to not live by the sword but does the opposite instead. Also god is against gay people and will kill them. God does evil things. God also has the power to end Hell for good and ALLOWS it to continue.

God is seen evil for many good reasons and the people that blindly fallow him dont even realize the wrong that has been done by Him.

Well, I would agree on one thing, for the moment.

That god that you speak of does not exist. That is a god concocted in the minds of men to justify their own evil.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:32 am

Oblivion has this hard-on about Jews. Can't help but notice.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:51 am

Ahso!;1437316 wrote: There is the assumption - again without critical thought. You've yet to prove the existence of any god and yet your language is loaded with unquestioned and self-assured references to it. However, the moment a non-believer confronts the issue they're the bad guys. That's screwy. Those in denial are the believers and pacifists on the issue, not the non-believers.

You got all that from what I said?

Or are you generalizing?

Post by **jones jones** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:00 am

gmc;1437310 wrote: Only kidding. I am still coming to terms with the reality of my own existence. I am also reasonably satisfied you exist even if only in the fevered imaginings of my own mind, and may live in wales.

Its okay. I only went sigh ... because sometimes I ask myself the same question!

Post by **jones jones** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:10 am

Personally I don't believe in any so called "god" whether this entity is Christian or not.

I have my own theory as to what these gods were. To those who lived at the time when gods were exalted as miracle performing and capable of all manner of stuff, the concept of space travel and visitations by beings from another world didn't exist.

Today those of us who have managed to free ourselves from the indoctrination of parents, school teachers, Sunday school teachers and the like, the concept of an all powerful, all seeing supreme being who should be prayed to for favours and worshipped is totally ludicrous.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:15 am

jones jones;1437388 wrote: Personally I don't believe in any so called "god" whether this entity is Christian or not.

...

Today those of us who have managed to free ourselves from the indoctrination of parents, school teachers, Sunday school teachers and the like, the concept of an all powerful, all seeing supreme being who should be prayed to for favours and worshipped is totally ludicrous.

Yeah, I don't really buy into one of those, either.

Post by **jones jones** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:18 am

LarsMac;1437389 wrote: Yeah, I don't really buy into one of those, either.

Good for you!

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:41 pm

jones jones;1437388 wrote: Personally I don't believe in any so called "god" whether this entity is Christian or not.

I have my own theory as to what these gods were. To those who lived at the time when gods were exalted as miracle performing and capable of all manner of stuff, the concept of space travel and visitations by beings from another world didn't exist.

Today those of us who have managed to free ourselves from the indoctrination of parents, school teachers, Sunday school teachers and the like, the concept of an all powerful, all seeing supreme being who should be prayed to for favours and worshipped is totally ludicrous.

Reminds me of:

"We donÂ´t need no education,

we don`t need no school control,

no dark sarcasms in the classrooms.

Teacher, leave us kids alone.

Hey teacher! Leave us kids alone!

All in all you`re just another brick in the wall,

All in all youÂ´re just another brick in the wall."

More lyrics: Roger Waters - We Don't Need No Education Lyrics

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 1:52 pm

LarsMac;1437312 wrote: Well, very simple. A monotheist, by definition, would only believe in One God, therefore it must be that One whom the Atheists would be denying.

That one and not the one believed in by other monotheists? If there is only one why are you so busy killing each other over which one is the only one?

Posted by oblivion

Atheists do NOT deny god because He is good and atheists are evil. They deny him because they find fault in Him.

You believe god exists ,you have faith. If you could actually prove god exists all the arguments amongst the various religions would cease. Except those which were wrong would probably deny the proof was real and the arguments would start up again. Maybe irony is the proof that god exists but no one understand it. Most religious fundamentalists seem to have no sense of humour - they certainly lack the ability to laugh at themselves consequently they are all doomed.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:41 pm

Melbourne Priest Greg Reynolds Defrocked And Excommunicated By The Vatican - International Business Times

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:29 pm

gmc;1437410 wrote: Most religious fundamentalists seem to have no sense of humour - they certainly lack the ability to laugh at themselves consequently they are all doomed.

GMC This is father BOB...... He's an icon in Melbourne Australia cause he's just so brill!!! I reckon melbourne will give him a state funeral when he goes.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Oct 07, 2013 10:55 pm

Even athiests love bob.

Post by **jones jones** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:59 am

“Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains. – Robert G. Ingersoll

Post by **jones jones** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:00 am

“I wonder who got the s..t job of scouring the planet for the 15000 species of butterfly or the 8800 species of ant they eventually took on board Noah’s Ark. But at least we got that magical rainbow for all their trouble. – Azura Skye

Post by **jones jones** » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:02 am

“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. – Robert Pirsig

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:42 am

fuzzywuzzy;1437441 wrote: Melbourne Priest Greg Reynolds Defrocked And Excommunicated By The Vatican - International Business Times

Any priests excommunicated for child molestation? Seems you only get excommunicated for preaching tolerance and equality.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:23 pm

Yeah actually GMC they are dropping like flies but what's more important is the establishment is going down. Even Cardinal Pell is clutching at straws writing a letter to the church re-enstating he's a "prince" of the church and therefore doesn't answer to anyone but the vatican ...the death throes. The enquiry has gone quite well exposing what is systematic horrors..

Oblivion4463 · Post by **Oblivion4463** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:13 am

gmc;1437410 wrote: That one and not the one believed in by other monotheists? If there is only one why are you so busy killing each other over which one is the only one?

Posted by oblivion

You believe god exists ,you have faith. If you could actually prove god exists all the arguments amongst the various religions would cease. Except those which were wrong would probably deny the proof was real and the arguments would start up again. Maybe irony is the proof that god exists but no one understand it. Most religious fundamentalists seem to have no sense of humour - they certainly lack the ability to laugh at themselves consequently they are all doomed.

I think you misunderstood what I ment about atheists finding fault in him. I ment that the logic and reason that is "said" to come from god or about god himself (as in his morals) is NOT a justifiable all knowing being.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:47 am

This guy gets it, I believe.

Best Explanation Of Religion I Have Ever Heard, And I'm Practically An Atheist

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:14 am

It's a n explanation of religion from a particular one standpoint He's an episcopalian - a heretic that would have been burned by the catholic church had he been around at the time. The pope would not agree with him. Course to Presbyterian he is still not much better and they follow some of the catholic rituals worship idols and all that stuff.

Do you guys not learn anything about the protestant reformation and the arguments - and warfare - centred around how you should properly worship god, do you find your own personal jesus or do you have to follow a set way. People still argue over it and that's why Christians can't stand each other - they all think they are right and everyone else is wrong. To the non-religious the arguments are ridiculous.

posted by fuzzywuzzy

Yeah actually GMC they are dropping like flies but what's more important is the establishment is going down. Even Cardinal Pell is clutching at straws writing a letter to the church re-enstating he's a "prince" of the church and therefore doesn't answer to anyone but the vatican ...the death throes. The enquiry has gone quite well exposing what is systematic horrors..

Which has dominance the laws of god or the laws of man. Another iold argument that luckily in secular society we no longer have and the moral authority of the church is questioned. Doesn't stop the religious claiming the moral high ground though does it. you can't touch me I'm a priest, couldn.t make it up could you.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:53 am

gmc;1437763 wrote: It's a n explanation of religion from a particular one standpoint He's an episcopalian - a heretic that would have been burned by the catholic church had he been around at the time. The pope would not agree with him. Course to Presbyterian he is still not much better and they follow some of the catholic rituals worship idols and all that stuff.

Do you guys not learn anything about the protestant reformation and the arguments - and warfare - centred around how you should properly worship god, do you find your own personal jesus or do you have to follow a set way. People still argue over it and that's why Christians can't stand each other - they all think they are right and everyone else is wrong. To the non-religious the arguments are ridiculous.

posted by fuzzywuzzy

Which has dominance the laws of god or the laws of man. Another iold argument that luckily in secular society we no longer have and the moral authority of the church is questioned. Doesn't stop the religious claiming the moral high ground though does it. you can't touch me I'm a priest, couldn.t make it up could you.

I am pretty sure that God is non-denominational. I find people from all sorts of Christian backgrounds - as well as non-Christian, and even the occasional Atheist - who show some grasp of what God is.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:02 am

How important is faith in building strong communities and a strong moral code?

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:19 am

Depends on what you are calling "Faith"

Post by **jones jones** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:24 am

halfway;1437779 wrote: How important is faith in building strong communities and a strong moral code?

Faith in exactly what would be my question?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:05 pm

halfway;1437779 wrote: How important is faith in building strong communities and a strong moral code?

In my tribe, faith and moral code are one and the same. and for the most part built a strong civilization.

We are lucky in that our moral codes not only serve us well, but copied to build other decent civilizations in the western world.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:45 am

tude dog;1437805 wrote: In my tribe, faith and moral code are one and the same. and for the most part built a strong civilization.

We are lucky in that our moral codes not only serve us well, but copied to build other decent civilizations in the western world.

Weird ...explain Russia then.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:12 am

fuzzywuzzy;1437806 wrote: Weird ...explain Russia then.

:-2

Post by **jones jones** » Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:08 am

“Man is, and always has been, a maker of gods. It has been the most serious and significant occupation of his sojourn in the world. – John Burroughs