Did anybody see on the news - the news that thought it so important to get it right that they sent the anchors to cover it - that there was a huge free concert coincidentally held at the same time & place as Obama's pre-victory speech?
Some are saying the concert was a warmup band for Obama - a warmup that lasted hours. Others say the bands were wildly popular and Obama spoke near the end of the concert.
Anybody literate in German? I'd like to know how long the free concert had been planned. I'd be even more interested in knowing if I paid for it.
chonsigirl;934171 wrote: I heard he went to the gym, and canceled an important visit to the soldiers. Didn't know there was a concert afterwards....................
I commented about that in the 'what's up with his ears' thread. Some say it's because they wouldn't allow cameras, some say it's because some Pentagon guy said it'd look too much like a campaign stunt. I personally think some Pentagon guy convinced him not to go, and Obama naiively agreed. I think this time it was a Naval Academy good ol' boy prank.
chonsigirl;934180 wrote: Ah, well since I love the Naval Academy, good on them!
:eek: Those wounded soldiers deserved a visit. If they missed out because of a deception then both sides are guilty of placing politics above compassion. Neither deserve the office.
The 200,000 went to see Obama apparently, mostly young German people, and the atmosphere was something of a rock concert vibe. I can't think of any other politican in the world who would be able to generate anything like the excitment this guy can right now, certainly no one would have bothered going to see the German Chancellor in the Tiergarten. Whether you like him or hate him, ( and I quite like him I have to say) you have to admit that his popularity is unprecendented probably since the Kennedy Era for an American politican. Also, he may be considered Liberal in the US, but I detect that he is fairly pragmatic when it comes to the world's geopolitical situation and he certainly won't be a soft president should he win the election.
He was also entertained at the Elysee palace in Paris, and in Downing Street with the ailing British Prime Minister, and several other leading UK politicians there were crowds outside the gates of Downing Street cheering him along. Its Obama mania that's my only analysis of it, I suppose in Europe we are so used to having to listen to GW Bush and the rest of his self-righteous lot, that this guy seems like a massive dose of fresh air. He is certainly on a wavelength that Europeans find easier to relate to than the last President, of course Europeans won't be voting in this election, so its all academic, but should he win the US will be a lot more popular in Europe than it has been recently.
I am sure that should he actually win then the love affair won't be quite so starry eyed, and we all know thats a big if, and the smear campaigns are well underway on both sides. I have to say this mean-spirited story about Obama ignoring soliders while living it up in the gym sounds like clutching at straws, typical election stuff. I am sure that he doesn't get to control his daily agenda, thats what his staff are for. Still, you should be happy that any American politician is able to generate such goodwill in Europe, you need all the friends you can get right now if you ask me. Though personally I don't mind if either of these guys win, as they are both quite different in outlook from GW Bush, (though they are obviously quite different candidates), and what I want to see is a better alliance between the US and the EU as we have lots of world problems that need addressing, I think both candidates are well attuned to that, though Obama is far better at the oroatory and the feel-good factor stuff, which isn't something that should be dismissed so easily.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Galbally;934184 wrote: The 200,000 went to see Obama apparently, mostly young German people, and the atmosphere was something of a rock concert vibe. I can't think of any other politican in the world who would be able to generate anything like the excitment this guy can right now, certainly no one would have bothered going to see the German Chancellor in the Tiergarten. Whether you like him or hate him, ( and I quite like him I have to say) you have to admit that his popularity is unprecendented probably since the Kennedy Era for an American politican. Also, he may be considered Liberal in the US, but I detect that he is fairly pragmatic when it comes to the world's geopolitical situation and he certainly won't be a soft president should he win the election.
He was also entertained at the Elysee palace in Paris, and in Downing Street with the ailing British Prime Minister, and several other leading UK politicians there were crowds outside the gates of Downing Street cheering him along. Its Obama mania that's my only analysis of it, I suppose in Europe we are so used to having to listen to GW Bush and the rest of his self-righteous lot, that this guy seems like a massive dose of fresh air. He is certainly on a wavelength that Europeans find easier to relate to than the last President, of course Europeans won't be voting in this election, so its all academic, but should he win the US will be a lot more popular in Europe than it has been recently.
I am sure that should he actually win then the love affair won't be quite so starry eyed, and we all know thats a big if, and the smear campaigns are well underway on both sides. I have to say this mean-spirited story about Obama ignoring soliders while living it up in the gym sounds like clutching at straws, typical election stuff. I am sure that he doesn't get to control his daily agenda, thats what his staff are for. Still, you should be happy that any American politician is able to generate such goodwill in Europe, you need all the friends you can get right now if you ask me. Though personally I don't mind if either of these guys win, as they are both quite different in outlook from GW Bush, (though they are obviously quite different candidates), and what I want to see is a better alliance between the US and the EU as we have lots of world problems that need addressing, I think both candidates are well attuned to that, though Obama is far better at the oroatory and the feel-good factor stuff, which isn't something that should be dismissed so easily.
Right - "apparently". That's why I ask about the concert. You're right about his marketing efforts. He's definitely won over the cameras & that's what wins elections. I don't think you're right about him being different from McCain, though. Yes, he'll win and we'll be the worse for it, but at least Europeans will be happy.
fuzzy butt;934186 wrote: Yep they went out of their way to see Obama. That's how it was reported here. and he explained why he didn't visit the troops. So he's above trying to use wounded soldiers as a political stunt. (have you seen what's being said about him (before this trip ) on military websites?)
I have no idea why Americans hate him so much . But most of the rest of the world love him. The smear campaigns I see, seem to be backfiring dramatically .Wiki link
He's completely inexperienced and ill-prepared. Seven years in state legislature and a few months as US Senator before announcing candidacy for president. Doesn't matter, though. The coronation's already in the planning stages.
fuzzy butt;934192 wrote: So basically he's lied less, been in less cover ups, and all round seems to think you guys need a change? Don't see a problem. Our Prime Minister came out of no where, but came along at the right time. Obama comes out of nowhere and has most likely come at the right time as well. Hope so!:)
The things he's stated that he wants to do domestically are outside the purview of our federal government. They run counter to our constitution no matter how likeable he is.
He's completely inexperienced and ill-prepared. Seven years in state legislature and a few months as US Senator before announcing candidacy for president. Doesn't matter, though. The coronation's already in the planning stages.
Are you seriously suggesting that George Bush was well prepared for the presidency? I presume that should he be elected, he will do well on some areas and not so well on others, like all democratic leaders who don't have the power to do whatever they wish and must more or less just "steer the ship" as best as possible. In Britain you have a leader who has spent 10 years as Chancellor, waiting to be the Prime Minister, and it turns out that despite all his preperation, he is just a rubbish leader, he doesn't have it.
I think you are being a bit overly negative about this election, at least you have clear choices as an electorate, and I wouldn't be writing off McCain at this stage, though his campaign is not going as well as it could, but there is a long way to go till November. When I said there were similarities between the 2 candidates, I was really talking about foreign policy and above all US-Europe relations, which both are advocates of, and as a pro-US European I support, as Europe is stronger with good relations with the US.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
Galbally;934488 wrote: Are you seriously suggesting that George Bush was well prepared for the presidency? I'm not sure you've read anything positive by me directly attributed to GW Bush.
Galbally wrote: I think you are being a bit overly negative about this election, at least you have clear choices as an electorate, and I wouldn't be writing off McCain at this stage, though his campaign is not going as well as it could, but there is a long way to go till November. When I said there were similarities between the 2 candidates, I was really talking about foreign policy and above all US-Europe relations, which both are advocates of, and as a pro-US European I support, as Europe is stronger with good relations with the US.Can you explain this? Aren't your choices as clear? Not that I see the choice as so clearcut; there's not a hair's difference between them on most issues they're touting.
"Just tell me one thing Barack Obama has done that you admire," I asked a prominent Democrat. He paused and then said that he admired Obama's speech to the Democratic convention in 2004. I agreed. It was a hell of a speech, but it was just a speech.
On the other hand, I continued, I could cite four or five actions -- not speeches -- that John McCain has taken that elicit my admiration, even my awe. First, of course, is his decision as a Vietnam prisoner of war to refuse freedom out of concern that he would be exploited for propaganda purposes. To paraphrase what Kipling said about Gunga Din, John McCain is a better man than most.
But I would not stop there. I would include campaign finance reform, which infuriated so many in his own party; opposition to earmarks, which won him no friends; his politically imprudent opposition to the Medicare prescription drug bill (Medicare has about $35 trillion in unfunded obligations); and, last but not least, his very early call for additional troops in Iraq. His was a lonely position -- virtually suicidal for an all-but-certain presidential candidate and no help when his campaign nearly expired last summer. In all these cases, McCain stuck to his guns.
Obama argues that he himself stuck to the biggest gun of all: opposition to the war. He took that position when the war was enormously popular, the president who initiated it was even more popular and critics of both were slandered as unpatriotic. But at the time, Obama was a mere Illinois state senator, representing the (very) liberal Hyde Park area of Chicago. He either voiced his conscience or his district's leanings or (lucky fella) both. We will never know.
And we will never know, either, how Obama might have conducted himself had he served in Congress as long as McCain has. Possibly he would have earned a reputation for furious, maybe even sanctimonious, integrity of the sort that often drove McCain's colleagues to dark thoughts of senatorcide, but the record -- scant as it is -- suggests otherwise. Obama is not noted for sticking to a position or a person once that position or person becomes a political liability. (Names available upon request.)
All politicians change their positions, sometimes even because they have changed their minds. McCain must have suffered excruciating whiplash from totally reversing himself on George Bush's tax cuts. He has denounced preachers he later embraced and then, to his chagrin, has had to denounce them all over again. This plasticity has a label: pandering. McCain knows how it's done.
But Obama has shown that in this area, youth is no handicap. He has been for and against gun control, against and for the recent domestic surveillance legislation and, in almost a single day, for a united Jerusalem under Israeli control and then, when apprised of U.S. policy and Palestinian chagrin, against it. He is an accomplished pol -- a statement of both admiration and a bit of regret.
Obama is often likened to John F. Kennedy. The comparison makes sense. He has the requisite physical qualities -- handsome, lean, etc. -- plus wit, intelligence, awesome speaking abilities and a literary bent. He also might be compared to Franklin D. Roosevelt for many of those same qualities. Both FDR and JFK were disparaged early on by their contemporaries for, I think, doing the difficult and making it look easy. Eleanor Roosevelt, playing off the title of Kennedy's Pulitzer Prize-winning book, airily dismissed him as more profile than courage. Similarly, it was Walter Lippmann's enduring misfortune to size up FDR and belittle him: Roosevelt, he wrote, was "a pleasant man who, without any important qualifications for office, would very much like to be president." Lippmann later recognized that he had underestimated Roosevelt.
My guess is that Obama will make a fool of anyone who issues such a judgment about him. Still, the record now, while tissue thin, is troubling. The next president will have to be something of a political Superman, a man of steel who can tell the American people that they will have to pay more for less -- higher taxes, lower benefits of all kinds -- and deal in an ugly way when nuclear weapons seize the imagination of madmen.
The question I posed to that prominent Democrat was just my way of thinking out loud. I know that Barack Obama is a near-perfect political package. I'm still not sure, though, what's in it.
Others say the bands were wildly popular and Obama spoke near the end of the concert.
