Provided By Viet Nam Vets Against John McCain
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
John McCain The Navy Pilot
I AM AWESOME MAN
John McCain The Navy Pilot
ya had me at Sidney....
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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Patsy Warnick
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
I would never take credit away from any one in the Service,
I never understood why McCain was put on a pedestal.
I have several friends who served in Vietnam who returned home lame,
if they returned home at all with NO MEDALS.
Patsy
I never understood why McCain was put on a pedestal.
I have several friends who served in Vietnam who returned home lame,
if they returned home at all with NO MEDALS.
Patsy
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Patsy Warnick;971691 wrote: I would never take credit away from any one in the Service,
I never understood why McCain was put on a pedestal.
I have several friends who served in Vietnam who returned home lame,
if they returned home at all with NO MEDALS.
Patsy
Of course he deserves to be recognized for his sacrifice.
Not everything is always what it appears to be though.
Kind of like the way Bush skated through his service, at one time going AWOL and his superiors had no idea where he was or having questions raised about his integrity and ethics.
Both were fortunate sons.
I never understood why McCain was put on a pedestal.
I have several friends who served in Vietnam who returned home lame,
if they returned home at all with NO MEDALS.
Patsy
Of course he deserves to be recognized for his sacrifice.
Not everything is always what it appears to be though.
Kind of like the way Bush skated through his service, at one time going AWOL and his superiors had no idea where he was or having questions raised about his integrity and ethics.
Both were fortunate sons.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Nomad;971664 wrote: Provided By Viet Nam Vets Against John McCain
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
Why lower the standards of FG by posting such dribble, this is about as relevant as the fact Bill Clinton committed adultery in the Oval Office, Eisenhower was a lousy golfer or Truman couldn't play the piano well.
I don't know if McCain was a hero or just another soldier among thousands caught up in a war he would rather not have been in, but at least he was there, not tucked away in the National Guard or college.
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
Why lower the standards of FG by posting such dribble, this is about as relevant as the fact Bill Clinton committed adultery in the Oval Office, Eisenhower was a lousy golfer or Truman couldn't play the piano well.
I don't know if McCain was a hero or just another soldier among thousands caught up in a war he would rather not have been in, but at least he was there, not tucked away in the National Guard or college.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
John McCain The Navy Pilot
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;971703 wrote: Why lower the standards of FG by posting such dribble, this is about as relevant as the fact Bill Clinton committed adultery in the Oval Office, Eisenhower was a lousy golfer or Truman couldn't play the piano well.
I don't know if McCain was a hero or just another soldier among thousands caught up in a war he would rather not have been in, but at least he was there, not tucked away in the National Guard or college.
I'm just curious what your stand was on John Kerry? Do you happen to have any of your commentary from around that time? Not stuff you write up today, now that they are doing it to mccain, but a link to something you wrote back then?
I don't know if McCain was a hero or just another soldier among thousands caught up in a war he would rather not have been in, but at least he was there, not tucked away in the National Guard or college.
I'm just curious what your stand was on John Kerry? Do you happen to have any of your commentary from around that time? Not stuff you write up today, now that they are doing it to mccain, but a link to something you wrote back then?
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:56 pm
John McCain The Navy Pilot
flopstock;971707 wrote: I'm just curious what your stand was on John Kerry? Do you happen to have any of your commentary from around that time? Not stuff you write up today, now that they are doing it to mccain, but a link to something you wrote back then?
I wasn't writing back then, but that too was dribble and irrelavant, just like the books that are now coming out on Obama, all election year garbarge.
I wasn't writing back then, but that too was dribble and irrelavant, just like the books that are now coming out on Obama, all election year garbarge.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
"If everybody is thinking alike, then somebody is not thinking" Gen. George Patton
Quinnscommentary
Observations on Life. Give it a try now and tell a friend or two or fifty.
Quinnscommentary Blog
John McCain The Navy Pilot
okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, so who do we believe? this is history oh about forty years ago and we get conflicing stories..how old is the bible?:p
sorry hoss..couldnt help it..
sorry hoss..couldnt help it..
John McCain The Navy Pilot
QUINNSCOMMENTARY;971832 wrote: I wasn't writing back then, but that too was dribble and irrelavant, just like the books that are now coming out on Obama, all election year garbarge.
That's too bad. You usually appear to shoot straight, so old stuff would have been fun to read after all this time...
That's too bad. You usually appear to shoot straight, so old stuff would have been fun to read after all this time...
I expressly forbid the use of any of my posts anywhere outside of FG (with the exception of the incredibly witty 'get a room already' )posted recently.
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
Folks who'd like to copy my intellectual work should expect to pay me for it.:-6
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;971849 wrote: Crash Number one:
According to Timburg, same man I assume (from wikipedia)- .'[52] During a practice run in Texas, his engine quit while landing, and his aircraft crashed into Corpus Christi Bay and sank to the bottom.[51] Although momentarily knocked unconscious by the impact, he squeezed out of the cockpit and swam to the surface, escaping without major injuries.[51] He graduated from flight school at Corpus Christi[51] in May 1960,[50]'
Crash number one was due to mechanical failure.
Alleged Crash Number two: (from wikipedia) same author reference.
'but he had another close call when he and his plane emerged intact from a collision with power lines after flying too low over Spain.[52]'
The aircraft was intact, he clipped power lines in a low approach, how is that crashing? The reference of death and mayhem is of a 1980 incident of which McCain was not involved in.
Crash number two was not a crash, it was an ‘incident’.
Crash number three.
(from wiki, same author sited) 'In late 1965, he had his third close call when a flameout in his trainer jet over Norfolk led to his ejecting safely before his plane crashed.[64]’
Flame out is mechanical failure especially given that he attempted to restart his engines 3 times before ejecting, I might add directing the plane to a safe place ot crash prior to ejecting and saving himself.
Crash number three, mechanical failure.
Crash number four:
Your article is biased and leaves out some details that might have bearing on how the incident is viewed: (from wikipedia)
'McCain was almost killed on board Forrestal on July 29, 1967. While the air wing was preparing to launch attacks, a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom accidentally fired across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck either McCain's A-4E Skyhawk or one near it.[67][72] The impact ruptured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose.[73] McCain later said, "I thought my aircraft exploded. Flames were everywhere."[67] McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck.[74] His flight suit caught on fire as he rolled through the flames, but he was able to put it out.[74] He went to help another pilot trying to escape the fire when the first bomb exploded; McCain was thrown backwards ten feet (three meters)[75] and struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[67][74] The ensuing fire on board killed 134 sailors, injured scores of others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and took 24 hours to control.[73][67][76] In Saigon a day after the conflagration, McCain praised the heroism of enlisted men who gave their lives trying to save the pilots on deck,[75] and told New York Times reporter R. W. Apple, Jr. that, "It's a difficult thing to say. But now that I've seen what the bombs and the napalm did to the people on our ship, I'm not so sure that I want to drop any more of that stuff on North Vietnam."[77]
That sort of changes it from 'aircraft crash' to one incredibly bad day for a lot of people.
Crash number four, total accident. For Pete Sake he wasn't even flying the thing at the time!
Crash number five (being shot down with a surface to air missile)
(wikipedia) ‘On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying his twenty-third mission, part of a twenty-plane attack against the Yen Phu thermal power plant in central Hanoi[88][89] that previously had almost always been off-limits to U.S. raids due to the possibility of collateral damage.[86] As he neared the target, warning systems in McCain's A-4E Skyhawk alerted him that he was being tracked by enemy fire-control radar.[90] He held his dive until he released his bombs at about 3,500 feet (1,000 meters)[91] (he was later awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for this day).[85] As he started to pull up, the Skyhawk's wing was blown off by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile fired by the North Vietnamese Air Defense Command's 61st Battalion.[86]
McCain's plane went into a vertical inverted spin.[92] Bailing out upside down at high speed,[93] the force of the ejection fractured McCain's right arm in three places, his left arm, and his right leg, and knocked him unconscious.[93] McCain nearly drowned after making a parachute landing in Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi; the weight of his equipment was pulling him down, and as he regained consciousness, he could not use his arms.[90] Eventually, he was able to inflate his life vest using his teeth.[90] Several Vietnamese, possibly led by Department of Industry clerk Mai Van On, pulled him ashore.[94] A mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes; his left shoulder was crushed with the butt of a rifle and he was bayoneted in his left foot and abdominal area.[93][90] He was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.[95]’
'Crash' number five earned him the Distinguished Flying Cross. Not for the crash but for holding his dive in the face of an incoming SAM and delivering his ordinance and completing his mission.
'Crash' number five. The stuff of heros.
Thank you Hoss!!! The truth always wins and against this kind of garbage it's a slam dunk.
According to Timburg, same man I assume (from wikipedia)- .'[52] During a practice run in Texas, his engine quit while landing, and his aircraft crashed into Corpus Christi Bay and sank to the bottom.[51] Although momentarily knocked unconscious by the impact, he squeezed out of the cockpit and swam to the surface, escaping without major injuries.[51] He graduated from flight school at Corpus Christi[51] in May 1960,[50]'
Crash number one was due to mechanical failure.
Alleged Crash Number two: (from wikipedia) same author reference.
'but he had another close call when he and his plane emerged intact from a collision with power lines after flying too low over Spain.[52]'
The aircraft was intact, he clipped power lines in a low approach, how is that crashing? The reference of death and mayhem is of a 1980 incident of which McCain was not involved in.
Crash number two was not a crash, it was an ‘incident’.
Crash number three.
(from wiki, same author sited) 'In late 1965, he had his third close call when a flameout in his trainer jet over Norfolk led to his ejecting safely before his plane crashed.[64]’
Flame out is mechanical failure especially given that he attempted to restart his engines 3 times before ejecting, I might add directing the plane to a safe place ot crash prior to ejecting and saving himself.
Crash number three, mechanical failure.
Crash number four:
Your article is biased and leaves out some details that might have bearing on how the incident is viewed: (from wikipedia)
'McCain was almost killed on board Forrestal on July 29, 1967. While the air wing was preparing to launch attacks, a Zuni rocket from an F-4 Phantom accidentally fired across the carrier's deck. The rocket struck either McCain's A-4E Skyhawk or one near it.[67][72] The impact ruptured the Skyhawk's fuel tank, which ignited the fuel and knocked two bombs loose.[73] McCain later said, "I thought my aircraft exploded. Flames were everywhere."[67] McCain escaped from his jet by climbing out the cockpit, working himself to the nose of the jet, and jumping off its refueling probe onto the burning deck.[74] His flight suit caught on fire as he rolled through the flames, but he was able to put it out.[74] He went to help another pilot trying to escape the fire when the first bomb exploded; McCain was thrown backwards ten feet (three meters)[75] and struck in the legs and chest by fragments.[67][74] The ensuing fire on board killed 134 sailors, injured scores of others, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and took 24 hours to control.[73][67][76] In Saigon a day after the conflagration, McCain praised the heroism of enlisted men who gave their lives trying to save the pilots on deck,[75] and told New York Times reporter R. W. Apple, Jr. that, "It's a difficult thing to say. But now that I've seen what the bombs and the napalm did to the people on our ship, I'm not so sure that I want to drop any more of that stuff on North Vietnam."[77]
That sort of changes it from 'aircraft crash' to one incredibly bad day for a lot of people.
Crash number four, total accident. For Pete Sake he wasn't even flying the thing at the time!
Crash number five (being shot down with a surface to air missile)
(wikipedia) ‘On October 26, 1967, McCain was flying his twenty-third mission, part of a twenty-plane attack against the Yen Phu thermal power plant in central Hanoi[88][89] that previously had almost always been off-limits to U.S. raids due to the possibility of collateral damage.[86] As he neared the target, warning systems in McCain's A-4E Skyhawk alerted him that he was being tracked by enemy fire-control radar.[90] He held his dive until he released his bombs at about 3,500 feet (1,000 meters)[91] (he was later awarded the Distinguished Flying Cross for this day).[85] As he started to pull up, the Skyhawk's wing was blown off by a Soviet-made SA-2 anti-aircraft missile fired by the North Vietnamese Air Defense Command's 61st Battalion.[86]
McCain's plane went into a vertical inverted spin.[92] Bailing out upside down at high speed,[93] the force of the ejection fractured McCain's right arm in three places, his left arm, and his right leg, and knocked him unconscious.[93] McCain nearly drowned after making a parachute landing in Trúc Bạch Lake in Hanoi; the weight of his equipment was pulling him down, and as he regained consciousness, he could not use his arms.[90] Eventually, he was able to inflate his life vest using his teeth.[90] Several Vietnamese, possibly led by Department of Industry clerk Mai Van On, pulled him ashore.[94] A mob gathered around, spat on him, kicked him, and stripped him of his clothes; his left shoulder was crushed with the butt of a rifle and he was bayoneted in his left foot and abdominal area.[93][90] He was then transported to Hanoi's main Hoa Lo Prison, nicknamed the "Hanoi Hilton" by American POWs.[95]’
'Crash' number five earned him the Distinguished Flying Cross. Not for the crash but for holding his dive in the face of an incoming SAM and delivering his ordinance and completing his mission.
'Crash' number five. The stuff of heros.
Thank you Hoss!!! The truth always wins and against this kind of garbage it's a slam dunk.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Great post Hoss.
We all have our own truths dont we ?
Im actually not as biased as you might think. If the only thing you know about me is what you read here at FG then yes of course I appear biased.
Biased and a lunatic. :wah: Im neither.
I see many flaws within the Obama campaign, its not my ideal first choice.
I also dont really wear tinfoil on my head.
Politics is such an egotistical and dirty game. Its easy to get swept up in the hype and run with innuendo and rumors and if you watch too much CNN or FOX you will just lose your mind. The media is very clever in the way they push their agenda.
Its been interesting watching arguments unfold here at the forum. I myself am more of a centrist than right or left.
The right has strong arguments for my vote.
The left has strong arguments for my vote.
Ron Paul has strong arguments for my vote.
If Obama wins some really good things will happen.
If McCain wins some equally good things will happen.
Either way Im always proud to be an American.
(Except when we do things like invade countries and stay there for 7 years)
John McCain The Pilot was a blatant display of ego in retaliation for ummm.......I forget now.
Its all a game, the politicking I mean. Im not going to change your belief system and youre not going to change mine so you vote your way Ill vote mine.
Burger and beer is on me.
We all have our own truths dont we ?
Im actually not as biased as you might think. If the only thing you know about me is what you read here at FG then yes of course I appear biased.
Biased and a lunatic. :wah: Im neither.
I see many flaws within the Obama campaign, its not my ideal first choice.
I also dont really wear tinfoil on my head.
Politics is such an egotistical and dirty game. Its easy to get swept up in the hype and run with innuendo and rumors and if you watch too much CNN or FOX you will just lose your mind. The media is very clever in the way they push their agenda.
Its been interesting watching arguments unfold here at the forum. I myself am more of a centrist than right or left.
The right has strong arguments for my vote.
The left has strong arguments for my vote.
Ron Paul has strong arguments for my vote.
If Obama wins some really good things will happen.
If McCain wins some equally good things will happen.
Either way Im always proud to be an American.
(Except when we do things like invade countries and stay there for 7 years)
John McCain The Pilot was a blatant display of ego in retaliation for ummm.......I forget now.
Its all a game, the politicking I mean. Im not going to change your belief system and youre not going to change mine so you vote your way Ill vote mine.
Burger and beer is on me.
I AM AWESOME MAN
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Accountable
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
I watched Palin's speech on MSNBC. Those guys were absolutely PO'd!
"Well, people that like that sort of thing ... will like that sort of thing."
"Some of what she said... well ... some might call it insulting."
:wah: I with I'd thought of that during the Dem convention. I'd love to record the comments from the different networks and put them side by side.
"Well, people that like that sort of thing ... will like that sort of thing."
"Some of what she said... well ... some might call it insulting."
:wah: I with I'd thought of that during the Dem convention. I'd love to record the comments from the different networks and put them side by side.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Accountable;972094 wrote: I watched Palin's speech on MSNBC. Those guys were absolutely PO'd!
"Well, people that like that sort of thing ... will like that sort of thing."
"Some of what she said... well ... some might call it insulting."
:wah: I with I'd thought of that during the Dem convention. I'd love to record the comments from the different networks and put them side by side.
She was insulting but she pulled it off without being smarmy. This is turning into a very exciting election process.
"Well, people that like that sort of thing ... will like that sort of thing."
"Some of what she said... well ... some might call it insulting."
:wah: I with I'd thought of that during the Dem convention. I'd love to record the comments from the different networks and put them side by side.
She was insulting but she pulled it off without being smarmy. This is turning into a very exciting election process.
I AM AWESOME MAN
John McCain The Navy Pilot
I think McCain's years as a POW more than paid for any pilot errors on his part. I wonder how many of you would have taken the early release offer, were you in his shoes then. I'm not sure I could have passed it up.
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Accountable
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
rjwould;973916 wrote: I think McCains record is valid and relevant and I served. The truth is that he is making it a point that he should be elected simply because he says he is a smart warrior, when reading between the lines suggests he may not only not be a smart warrior but may have been a reluctant warrior. I think John McCain served only because he felt pressure to do so in light of the rite of passage which was his families.
That takes nothing away from anything he could not control such as being a POW or mechanical failure and bad luck. Domestically McCain is fine with me with the exception of judicial appointments, its that and his warrior attitude thats scary, and thats where his power will be if elected, the rest is up to congress anyway.
McCain acknowledged the reluctant warrior in him, in his speech. People have short memories, me included, but I do remember people used to berate him as a dove, afraid to go into war because of his own experiences. Taking his war stances during his senate service as a package, I believe we'd find a wise and reluctant warrior, who when forced into war will go whole hog so as to limit our losses as much as possible.
That takes nothing away from anything he could not control such as being a POW or mechanical failure and bad luck. Domestically McCain is fine with me with the exception of judicial appointments, its that and his warrior attitude thats scary, and thats where his power will be if elected, the rest is up to congress anyway.
McCain acknowledged the reluctant warrior in him, in his speech. People have short memories, me included, but I do remember people used to berate him as a dove, afraid to go into war because of his own experiences. Taking his war stances during his senate service as a package, I believe we'd find a wise and reluctant warrior, who when forced into war will go whole hog so as to limit our losses as much as possible.
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;974261 wrote: Yikes. My dad and I have talked about this, dad thinks he'd be too reluctant to initiate war when necessary then too timid to scale up to what’s needed and likely to finish to early and pull troops out of harms way too fast. I tend to agree more with your stance. I think he will reluctantly send troops into war but once committed go full tilt as long as necessary. Or at least I used to until I read his comment on the Wikipedia site following the Forestal incident, that he was reluctant to drop napalm and other ordinance after he saw what it could do. I'm constantly rethinking things.
The ends don't justify the means. The ends never justify the means. Napalm is not a "smart" weapon, meaning you can't decide who gets doused with it. It's too dangerous. It's also cruel - which is not a reason to not use a particular weapon - because its fire can't be put out, or at least not by rolling on the ground or jumping in water.
The ends don't justify the means. The ends never justify the means. Napalm is not a "smart" weapon, meaning you can't decide who gets doused with it. It's too dangerous. It's also cruel - which is not a reason to not use a particular weapon - because its fire can't be put out, or at least not by rolling on the ground or jumping in water.
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;974652 wrote: It's a hard thing for me to understand, war is so far from me and I've been purposefully isolated from it by men like you and my dad. You men are willing to go fight it and you don't shy from it you take it as a responsibility of citizenship and bear that burden so most of us never have to think about it. I think after some people are exposed to it they become more reluctant to complete the task when it becomes necessary unless what they are protecting becomes more important than the atrocity that may occur in the process of doing it. I think that John McCain was faced with a reality of what war was like for those on the ground in one of his attacks, after that we see that he did in fact go drop bombs on a target despite his reluctance to do so despite his better, closer knowledge of what those weapons can do. I think that he had one of those moments when the need outweighed what may have happened. I think he will do the same if he's elected president and we need to fight. I hope because of his experience, that if we need to go to war he goes to war with as little casualty as possible on both sides.
You're a good man, Hoss. Keep examining your beliefs; question them. They will only become stronger - more "yours".
You're a good man, Hoss. Keep examining your beliefs; question them. They will only become stronger - more "yours".
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Snidely Whiplash
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Nomad;971664 wrote: Provided By Viet Nam Vets Against John McCain
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
Guess liberalism really is a mental disorder.......??
:wah:
Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.
His father John S. "Junior" McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III's grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.
During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.
Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale's Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."
McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.
McCain's second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula," Timberg wrote, "he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."
McCain's third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.
Timberg reported that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.
McCain's fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain's plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.
McCain's fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain's A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.
After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.
After being periodically slapped around for "three or four days" by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.
"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.
When the communist learned that McCain's father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.
The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain's father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured "the crown prince."
For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.
"McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat," explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs -- the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. "Since McCain got 28 medals," Bell continues, "that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys -- grunts on the ground -- who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I'm sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down."
For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.
McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America's POW-hero presidential candidate.
Guess liberalism really is a mental disorder.......??
:wah:
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Accountable
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;975489 wrote: You are the good man, you served. I have only thought about it. I know I could make it through; part of me wants to try just to make sure I could. I love my country and I will fight to defend it. But I’m more of a fight only when necessary kind of guy not one who goes out to get in the fight. I think that sounds kind of chicken.
I think my core beliefs are stable, I'm learning how my beliefs are lived out now. But I do question a lot of things.
Thanks for the advice.
Dude, I joined the Air Force because it was 4 years of guaranteed employment and because a man I trusted suggested it. I was a slug with no real direction and so far as I know no one was talking war in 1982. I reenlisted the first time for a girl. I grew up in the Air Force. For me, maturity was a long time comin', but I'm proud of the man I've become.
Chicken is my favorite meal, and anyone who goes looking for a fight is an idiot. I've never seen battle. I'm pretty sure I can be depended on in a firefight but I'm definitely not infantry or marine material.
Fighting doesn't make a man, and not fighting doesn't make a chicken. Spirit and backbone make a man. Low heat and plenty of black pepper make a good chicken. You've got truckloads more spirit and backbone than I had at your age - hell, than I had at 25!
Don't look to your father as the man you must become. You'll never measure up because a son's dad is larger than real life. You're different clay, so you will mold different. Not only is that okay, that's the way it's supposed to be.
I'm rambling so I'll stop.
I think my core beliefs are stable, I'm learning how my beliefs are lived out now. But I do question a lot of things.
Thanks for the advice.
Dude, I joined the Air Force because it was 4 years of guaranteed employment and because a man I trusted suggested it. I was a slug with no real direction and so far as I know no one was talking war in 1982. I reenlisted the first time for a girl. I grew up in the Air Force. For me, maturity was a long time comin', but I'm proud of the man I've become.
Chicken is my favorite meal, and anyone who goes looking for a fight is an idiot. I've never seen battle. I'm pretty sure I can be depended on in a firefight but I'm definitely not infantry or marine material.
Fighting doesn't make a man, and not fighting doesn't make a chicken. Spirit and backbone make a man. Low heat and plenty of black pepper make a good chicken. You've got truckloads more spirit and backbone than I had at your age - hell, than I had at 25!
Don't look to your father as the man you must become. You'll never measure up because a son's dad is larger than real life. You're different clay, so you will mold different. Not only is that okay, that's the way it's supposed to be.
I'm rambling so I'll stop.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Guess liberalism really is a mental disorder.......??
:wah:
Thats cute.
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
:wah:
Thats cute.
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
I AM AWESOME MAN
John McCain The Navy Pilot
HE was HOTTIE pilot, though. You cant argue that!:wah:
John McCain The Navy Pilot
When Russia invaded Georgia, there were a number of people in the States who thought that the state of Georgia was under attack, the country of Georgia was not even known to most.
Now in McCain’s speech he is openly saying that the USA needs to help ‘their friends in Georgia’. Friends?
Are the States now setting themselves up under McCain to start defending Eastern Europe ex Soviet countries (no matter how small?).
It is great to promise the world everything, but the States need to be careful on how thin they spread their military resources.
How many wars do you think the USA can manage at the same time?
Now in McCain’s speech he is openly saying that the USA needs to help ‘their friends in Georgia’. Friends?
Are the States now setting themselves up under McCain to start defending Eastern Europe ex Soviet countries (no matter how small?).
It is great to promise the world everything, but the States need to be careful on how thin they spread their military resources.
How many wars do you think the USA can manage at the same time?
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Snidely Whiplash
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Nomad;975919 wrote: Thats cute.
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
How bout those todays polls....... Yeah I know you can search for others that say different, but the major ones say...........:
Mc-Palin up by 10 points......... :wah:
Hold your breath lib's............ The water is deep, and don't forget to grab something that floats........ I'll bet that you'll need it on election day...........
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
How bout those todays polls....... Yeah I know you can search for others that say different, but the major ones say...........:
Mc-Palin up by 10 points......... :wah:
Hold your breath lib's............ The water is deep, and don't forget to grab something that floats........ I'll bet that you'll need it on election day...........
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Patsy Warnick
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss
Did you also hear McCain say during his speech :
"We're going to stop sending money / funding Countries
who don't like us anyway"..."and give money back to our people" ??
not the exact quote... same content - interesting Ya??
then McCain mentions Georgia ??
Patsy
Did you also hear McCain say during his speech :
"We're going to stop sending money / funding Countries
who don't like us anyway"..."and give money back to our people" ??
not the exact quote... same content - interesting Ya??
then McCain mentions Georgia ??
Patsy
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Patsy Warnick;977258 wrote: Hoss
Did you also hear McCain say during his speech :
"We're going to stop sending money / funding Countries
who don't like us anyway"..."and give money back to our people" ??
not the exact quote... same content - interesting Ya??
then McCain mentions Georgia ??
Patsy
And people are undecided in this election. Go figure. I see Palin is finally allowed out to give interviews that aren't scripted by Bush & Co.
Did you also hear McCain say during his speech :
"We're going to stop sending money / funding Countries
who don't like us anyway"..."and give money back to our people" ??
not the exact quote... same content - interesting Ya??
then McCain mentions Georgia ??
Patsy
And people are undecided in this election. Go figure. I see Palin is finally allowed out to give interviews that aren't scripted by Bush & Co.
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Snidely Whiplash
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John McCain The Navy Pilot
Nomad;975919 wrote: Thats cute.
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
Ask any military person bait breath, awwww heck ask yourself, if you had a son or daughter, or you yourself was in service, who's decisions would you trust had more experience making decisions, McCaine or Obama....?
It's really laughable, and as the weeks wear on towards this election, more and more people are seeing the true Obama, and it's sobering to more and more people each hour, and each day, as the Obama hoax is unraveled for what it is.....
Guess we all have to choose between a guy who shot missiles at our enemies from a fighter plane, or a guy who shot staples into a telephone pole as an activist neighborhood organizer.....?
But I heard that those staples can cause one heck of an infection......
Sounds even to me :wah:
Really it made me giggle.
I wait with baited breathe for your next surprise attack.
Ask any military person bait breath, awwww heck ask yourself, if you had a son or daughter, or you yourself was in service, who's decisions would you trust had more experience making decisions, McCaine or Obama....?
It's really laughable, and as the weeks wear on towards this election, more and more people are seeing the true Obama, and it's sobering to more and more people each hour, and each day, as the Obama hoax is unraveled for what it is.....
Guess we all have to choose between a guy who shot missiles at our enemies from a fighter plane, or a guy who shot staples into a telephone pole as an activist neighborhood organizer.....?
But I heard that those staples can cause one heck of an infection......
Sounds even to me :wah:
John McCain The Navy Pilot
qsducks;977265 wrote: And people are undecided in this election. Go figure. I see Palin is finally allowed out to give interviews that aren't scripted by Bush & Co.
I can hardly wait for her to go head-to-head with Biden. Remember Biden in the primary debates? :yh_rotfl
I can hardly wait for her to go head-to-head with Biden. Remember Biden in the primary debates? :yh_rotfl
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Patsy Warnick
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- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Todays News
any one hear this ?? McCain is demanding a apology from Obama
Obama said : You can put lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig...
ouch
Patsy
any one hear this ?? McCain is demanding a apology from Obama
Obama said : You can put lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig...
ouch
Patsy
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;975730 wrote: Thanks again. LOL, I like chicken better on the BBQ! :wah: You and my dad think lot a like but for different reasons. Dad says that I need to do what I need to do, not follow after what he needed to do. But the pull is there, there is a war on, that’s what’s so tough about it. I'm torn between my obligation to my country and doing what I need to do with my life. Especially when I could go become a firefighter in the Air force or Army since they each have those career paths. I made an agreement with my dad to do a civilian EMT school and a civilian fire academy first. I'm scheduled for both and I'll do both. I'm not really looking for a fight, but I am looking to do my part.
You will be fulfilling your obligation to your country, doing your part, far better and more effectively by being a firefighter and saving the lives of your fellow Americans.
You will be fulfilling your obligation to your country, doing your part, far better and more effectively by being a firefighter and saving the lives of your fellow Americans.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Patsy Warnick;979836 wrote: Todays News
any one hear this ?? McCain is demanding a apology from Obama
Obama said : You can put lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig...
ouch
Patsy
And back in May, McCain used the same phrase when talkin about
I believ it was Hilary's health care plan...
any one hear this ?? McCain is demanding a apology from Obama
Obama said : You can put lipstick on a pig - it's still a pig...
ouch
Patsy
And back in May, McCain used the same phrase when talkin about
I believ it was Hilary's health care plan...
John McCain The Navy Pilot
valerie;980296 wrote: And back in May, McCain used the same phrase when talkin about
I believ it was Hilary's health care plan...
Obama may not have been talking about Palin but there is no doubt the crowd he was talking to thought he was.
McCain's use of the phrase was not in the same context and he has no motive for using it to harm Palin.
I believ it was Hilary's health care plan...
Obama may not have been talking about Palin but there is no doubt the crowd he was talking to thought he was.
McCain's use of the phrase was not in the same context and he has no motive for using it to harm Palin.
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Bryn Mawr;980134 wrote: You will be fulfilling your obligation to your country, doing your part, far better and more effectively by being a firefighter and saving the lives of your fellow Americans.
Saving lives as a firefighter is honorable but not MORE honorable than saving lives by preventing terorist from committing mass murder wherever they choose.
Saying one is better than the other insults his father and others who have put their lives on the line so you can make a political point.:-5
Saving lives as a firefighter is honorable but not MORE honorable than saving lives by preventing terorist from committing mass murder wherever they choose.
Saying one is better than the other insults his father and others who have put their lives on the line so you can make a political point.:-5
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Clint;980302 wrote: Obama may not have been talking about Palin but there is no doubt the crowd he was talking to thought he was.
McCain's use of the phrase was not in the same context and he has no motive for using it to harm Palin.
I didn't say it was in the same context... I said what context it was in,
and Palin wasn't even a gleem in McSame's eye back when he used
the phrase...
I think you're splitting hairs but whatever.
It was used a few months before that, if I can find out where/whom
I'll post but the point being... it's a fairly common figure of speech.
McCain's use of the phrase was not in the same context and he has no motive for using it to harm Palin.
I didn't say it was in the same context... I said what context it was in,
and Palin wasn't even a gleem in McSame's eye back when he used
the phrase...
I think you're splitting hairs but whatever.
It was used a few months before that, if I can find out where/whom
I'll post but the point being... it's a fairly common figure of speech.
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Patsy Warnick
- Posts: 4567
- Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:53 am
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Well, Hell Hoss
If I was told that I'd tell ya....
Neither Candidate tells ya HOW the Change will happen..Just that WE need a change..?? DAH - Tell us HOW..??
wait I need to put my lipstick on
Patsy
If I was told that I'd tell ya....
Neither Candidate tells ya HOW the Change will happen..Just that WE need a change..?? DAH - Tell us HOW..??
wait I need to put my lipstick on
Patsy
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;980350 wrote: Very interesting, but how is he going to do that? Those countries need our help to keep the pressure against terrorism. Which in turn keeps terrorism away from us.
The world doesnt revolve around terrorism.
Why do you give your power away so easily ?
The world doesnt revolve around terrorism.
Why do you give your power away so easily ?
I AM AWESOME MAN
John McCain The Navy Pilot
Hoss;980366 wrote: Give my power away? How so? I think we should be out there helping as many countries as we can afford to help, so we can spread freedom and liberty and people will want it, that helps everybody.
I have it pretty well here; I think others should have the same or better opportunities. Terrorism stands in the way of us giving to others what we hold dear.
You appear to be consumed by it. Its fear. You give your power away by letting a few thugs control so much of your energy.
I have it pretty well here; I think others should have the same or better opportunities. Terrorism stands in the way of us giving to others what we hold dear.
You appear to be consumed by it. Its fear. You give your power away by letting a few thugs control so much of your energy.
I AM AWESOME MAN