John McCain The Navy Pilot

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:07 pm

Obama did state - he was no longer going to slander/dirt throwing/spitting etc.

and wanted to get down to the real issues ...??

B.S.

THAT WAS @ 3 WEEKS AGO -

and now the Lipstick Pig statement.... C'mon

Ugly comments

and no issues are being discussed..

Patsy

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:08 pm

Obama is on Letterman right now - tonight

anyone watching ? or listening ??

still no real discussion on any issue.

Patsy

Hope6 · Post by **Hope6** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:15 pm

well everybody's buzzing around here, Obamas lipstick on the pig comment is all over our local news tonight!

someone on there mentioned that all it served to do was take attention away from the issues, and he needs to keep attention on himself, not stuff like this in particular since they are now saying Virginia is gonna be a battleground state this year!

i for one want to hear what they are gonna do for us if they win the election, i have no interest in listening to them put each other down!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:21 pm

Hoss;980380 wrote: I'm not consumed by it, it hardly affects me in a tangible way, other than my dad being gone fighting it, but I'm proud of him for that. I just realize how much of it exists; I'd hardly say its a few thugs. But then again I wouldnâ€™t say its world wide either. It's one of many threats to freedom and liberty, not so much here, most folks cant even tell you what year the towers were destroyed. Unless you live near a military post, or know someone who has fought, the war is hardly recognizable. The newspapers don't even put it on the front page anymore; itâ€™s not bad enough to sell papers.

It's far more of a problem in other countries that we help, and we need to keep helping them so they can overcome it.

Im all for helping nations in need.

Im not for starting fires where none existed.

You do know we started the hornets nest in Iraq dont you ?

At any rate how about we get our own ducks in a row for a change ?

Sound good ?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:35 pm

Nomad

How do you want to line those Ducks up

horizontal ? Vertical ?

The trick is - WE have to as a group all make a difference in OUR Country

we can't expect to leave our Condition in the hands of ONE Person..

OK - our Ducks are in a row - now lets get to disecting the issues before they get our VOTE...

Patsy

Hoss, your a good soul..

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:45 pm

Hoss;980389 wrote: LOL. Unfortunately I happen to know a lot about what happened in Iraq, and I'll have to politely disagree with you on Iraq, but I'm for helping all we can and getting our ducks in a row. That sounds good. When my dad comes back, if you send him a PM and ask for a discussion on Iraq he may open up and tell you what really happened there.

Until we toppled the Iraqi govt. we werent having a problem with them.

They were a non issue.

Our problem was with a small band of insane people based in Afghanistan.

We chased them into Iraq.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:45 pm

Patsy Warnick;980390 wrote: Nomad

How do you want to line those Ducks up

Patsy

Hoss, your a good soul..

Im not smart enough to know how to do that Patsy.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:50 am

I was watching CNN for the first time in years & years (there really is no objective news anywhere in this country is there?) and they were complaining/reporting about McCain and his past transgressions. He told this joke back in the day:

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father.

Really funny, but really inappropriate. He apologized.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:11 am

Hoss;980583 wrote: No, they just came to Iraq when they found out we were there. Iraq today is glad we helped them. Iraqi prime minister was just in the US thanking us. It's kind of difficult for me to believe Iraq is not better than it was before when it was under Saddam Hussein.

Our problem is with groups of greedy killers who are developing under a single banner of hatred directed at us, who are funded and protected by states.

I think Iraq was thought to be a fairly easy in and out operation, lasting one to two years. We did not estimate very well the number of Jihadists that flooded into the country or the amount of funds Iran poured in.

Many many of those insurgents only banded together after our presence in their country. The ones that came in from other countries did so because the infidels appeared.

They had that right.

They were protecting their own.

It doesnt matter to me one bit whether Iraqis are glad we came, we didnt have the right !

We are not Lord of, King of, The Supreme Ones of the world !!!!!

Do they have the right to come here and tell us were going to liberate you from democracy ?

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:16 am

Accountable;980469 wrote: I was watching CNN for the first time in years & years (there really is no objective news anywhere in this country is there?) and they were complaining/reporting about McCain and his past transgressions. He told this joke back in the day:

Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?

Because Janet Reno is her father.

Really funny, but really inappropriate. He apologized.

this (military) guy used to write from Iraq every month for Texas Monthly last year and I remember his comment about them getting to see the news from all over the world and nobody getting it right. :wah:

[

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:32 pm

Hoss;981393 wrote: Here are the reasons at the time we went into Iraq to remove Saddam's regime and establish a democracy friendly to the United States.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 002-2.html

All perfectly legal under US code and voted on by Congress. That gave us the right to do so. If they want to try to come here and enforce what they feel is in their best interest then they should try. It will just bring them close enough to kill and be done with it.

I don't consider us the world police; we can only enforce what we are capable of and what is in our own best interest. From what I have heard from men my father knows we went over there to restore Iraq to a peaceful and stable time for them, which was in our best interest. That’s certainly selfish, but it’s working. By attacking Iraq we were able to force them to use their resources to fight back there. We know we have far more resources than they do and we are far better equipped and far better trained to win than they are. We will win if we keep the pressure up. Let’s hope our next president does keep the pressure on.

I'm normally a very peaceful person, I have no desire to fight anyone anywhere and if it were up to me and no one bothered me I'd pretty much just live in peace where I was with what I had and be content. But these people don't want us to be content like we are; they want us to be content under their rule. Their God is not my God, and I won't serve their God. Negotiation hasn't worked, they want to kill us or rule us nothing else. I won't be ruled by them, and I won't let them kill my family or myself.

I have a choice to make then, be passive and allow them to come in and take control bit by bit or draw a line and toe it and fight. I can be pushed just so far. 9-11 was too far. For me the attack on the USS Cole was too far.

Terrorism won’t go away without a fight and I think President Bush has done an outstanding job of meeting the challenges of terrorism.

So tell me how many of you hate me now?
I don't want to discuss it further than to say I disagree that it is our right - or even right - to invade a country that hasn't attacked us and was known not to be holding the guys we were supposed to be after. BTS mentioned a long time ago that we took Iraq to flank Iran (using Iraq & Afghanistan). I think that he's correct.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:09 pm

Hoss;981411 wrote: It's ok, I'm being told it's probably best to leave this subject alone too. Sorry I brought it up.
I teach writing. I hate passive voice.

I don't discuss the subject because I think the Iraq question is moot. We're there; we need to finish cleaning up. There are loads of people here that will keep such a discussion going ad nauseum.

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:02 pm

Patsy Warnick;980375 wrote: Obama is on Letterman right now - tonight

anyone watching ? or listening ??

still no real discussion on any issue.

Patsy

A lot of information has been covered so far, but it's not highlighted by media. Instead what's highlighted is the fake outrage over Obama's lipstick remark (an expression McCain has used more than once himself as well).

Of course a newspaper's job is to sell newspapers, not necessarily convey information. If you want details, you'll have to do the research yourself.

http://www.factcheck.org/

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

qsducks · Post by **qsducks** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:10 pm

I saw that on Letterman the other night about the pig/lipstick. And this is what the repubs are screaming about?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Thu Sep 11, 2008 10:25 pm

Yaaarrrggg

hey - I just asked at the moment if any one was watching?? I was.

as far as information - when the canadidates talk about HOW to solve the issues

I'll be listening & I'll do my research

Thank You

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:13 am

qsducks;981580 wrote: I saw that on Letterman the other night about the pig/lipstick. And this is what the repubs are screaming about?
:D I think that righteous indignation stuff like that is silly. My beloved recorded The View for me the other day because they were discussing Palin's convention speech. They kept saying "when she said such & such, that was not called for." "Yes, I thought that was inappropriate." when we KNOW that if she was a democrat saying the same things they'd be jumping up and down screaming You Go Girl!

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:46 am

Hoss;981466 wrote: Is there a world code?

What you will need to find then deciper the world code.

Magnifying Glass

GPS System

"Special" Decoder Ring

1 Ostrich Feather

3 Green Marbles

Granola Bar (in case you get hungry)

1 Earth Mover

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:31 pm

Hoss;981393 wrote: Here are the reasons at the time we went into Iraq to remove Saddam's regime and establish a democracy friendly to the United States.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases ... 002-2.html

All perfectly legal under US code and voted on by Congress. That gave us the right to do so. If they want to try to come here and enforce what they feel is in their best interest then they should try. It will just bring them close enough to kill and be done with it.

I don't consider us the world police; we can only enforce what we are capable of and what is in our own best interest. From what I have heard from men my father knows we went over there to restore Iraq to a peaceful and stable time for them, which was in our best interest. Thatâ€™s certainly selfish, but itâ€™s working. By attacking Iraq we were able to force them to use their resources to fight back there. We know we have far more resources than they do and we are far better equipped and far better trained to win than they are. We will win if we keep the pressure up. Letâ€™s hope our next president does keep the pressure on.

I'm normally a very peaceful person, I have no desire to fight anyone anywhere and if it were up to me and no one bothered me I'd pretty much just live in peace where I was with what I had and be content. But these people don't want us to be content like we are; they want us to be content under their rule. Their God is not my God, and I won't serve their God. Negotiation hasn't worked, they want to kill us or rule us nothing else. I won't be ruled by them, and I won't let them kill my family or myself.

I have a choice to make then, be passive and allow them to come in and take control bit by bit or draw a line and toe it and fight. I can be pushed just so far. 9-11 was too far. For me the attack on the USS Cole was too far.

Terrorism wonâ€™t go away without a fight and I think President Bush has done an outstanding job of meeting the challenges of terrorism.

So tell me how many of you hate me now?

In the words of the McCarthy era pledge, I am not now and never have been a hater of Hoss.

I have, as always, nothing but respect for your principles however much I might disagree with your conclusions.

To me, the site you reference is a pile of knowing lies and deliberate spin to justify a decision taken for political reasons and the actions taken on the back of it are the major cause of Muslim radicalisation.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:34 pm

Accountable;981416 wrote: I teach writing. I hate passive voice.

I don't discuss the subject because I think the Iraq question is moot. We're there; we need to finish cleaning up. There are loads of people here that will keep such a discussion going ad nauseum.

I resemble that remark :wah:

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:37 pm

Bryn Mawr;984073 wrote: I resemble that remark :wah:
:yh_whistl

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:54 pm

Hoss;982511 wrote: I guess there is no world code then. :-2

Yep - it's called International Law

International lawyers and anti-war campaigners reacted with astonishment yesterday after the influential Pentagon hawk Richard Perle conceded that the invasion of Iraq had been illegal.

In a startling break with the official White House and Downing Street lines, Mr Perle told an audience in London: "I think in this case international law stood in the way of doing the right thing."

President George Bush has consistently argued that the war was legal either because of existing UN security council resolutions on Iraq - also the British government's publicly stated view - or as an act of self-defence permitted by international law.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2003/nov/20/usa.iraq1

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:55 pm

Accountable;984078 wrote: :yh_whistl

I thought it might have been :p

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:17 pm

Hoss;985944 wrote: Thanks for the respect I feel the same way about you. I disagree; I think Muslim Radicalization has been building since about the year 600. We just got tired of it when they flew planes into the WTC.

I live in a predominantly Muslim area of London (Banglatown) and in the first city in the UK to have more than 50% or its population made up from the ethnic minorities.

The changes in attitude and behaviour of the Muslims I see on a daily basis over the last seven years has to be seen to be believed and is a direct result of the actions of the British and US governments in pursuing their anti-Muslim policies and of the daemonisation of Muslim culture on the media.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 12:04 am

Hoss;986062 wrote: I have given this a lot of thought lately and there are a few things about this that do not make much sense. If Islam is peaceful, then why do they fight so much? They have to have an enemy and we just happen to be it right now. From what I can see their religion is militant by nature. Iâ€™m not demonizing them Iâ€™m giving you my impression of what I see happening around me. The example they set is militant, harsh, torturous, angry, unforgiving, retributive, and mostly I see that in how they treat each other. What they do to their perceived enemies is far worse.

How am I to think of anything else by what they show? It isnâ€™t I who demonize them its they who act out in demonic ways.

No, it is not you who daemonises them but they are daemonised in the media.

The oppressed have two choices, to give up and die or to fight back - can you condemn them for choosing to fight back when attacked?

What would you do if the USA was attacked by a vastly superior power? Roll over and say yes, Sir?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:47 am

Hoss;986264 wrote: The oppressed? That is too open ended of a question to answer in a discussion like this. We are oppressed by terrorism and the groups that support terrorism. The common Iraqi, Jordanian, Palestinian, Lebanese, Israeli, Somali, to name but a few are oppressed by Muslim based terrorism, they have a third option now which is to allow others to help them fight back those who oppress them and not hinder the US military from doing their jobs. So far in Iraq they are getting the idea that we are there to help not destroy or oppress further.

US troops are not in Jordan, Lebanon or Somalia (let's leave the oppression of the Palestinian people out of this particular discussion?). They (and we) are, however, in Iraq in a war that was started despite there being no link to 9/11 and, demonstrably, no clear and present danger to the US or the UK. They are, therefore, seen as oppressed by the rest of the Arab / Muslim world.

The US military ,might well be doing its job but the US administration are involved in an illegal immoral and unjustifiable war.

Hoss;986264 wrote: Your second question is not whatâ€™s happening around the world, you have the wrong perspective. The USA isn't attacking another country; we are liberating the people from their oppressors. In that situation Iâ€™d not only help them but wave their flag, feed them; honor them with all I had to offer them!

We have totally different perspectives here, you see the USA as dominate oppressors throughout the world. I don't, not in the least. If you have noticed the news lately (not that there is a lot of it because it supports the war effort in Iraq) you'd see that.

The downtrodden people of Iraq asked the US to help them liberate themselves in 1993 and the US administration turned their back. They certainly did not ask for our intervention in 2003 - we attacked another soverign country with no legal justification whatsoever.

Hoss;986264 wrote:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341312,00.html

That same story plays over and over in parts of the world, and a terror group wins, and the US is going to go after them and keep after them and not let them do that to people, we aren't there to do that to people ourselves and thatâ€™s what the Iraqis have learned and thatâ€™s why they are helping to fight for themselves now.

And Fox is an unbiased source?