make love not war

[sallahudin]

This is suppose to be the 21st century the age of knowledge and enlightenment. But it seems as the years roll by we are pushing ourselves into darkness. The more and more woman are trying to behave like men the more world is going into shambles. Woman have the precious task of creating the next generation. But since woman are more embroiled into what they call freedom the lawlessness goes worse. I wonder if someone else thinks the same way i dont mean to degrade anyone. We all have a part to play to make this world a better place but i think woman are more important in this respect. I have greatest of respect for woman and just in case anyone thinks i am against woman, i personally think that woman are the better half in a relationship.

I would like to know more woman of this world. Any Muslim woman around the world are welcome, also anyone who wants to become Muslim or any one for friendship. :guitarist

[911]

sallahudin;509054 wrote: This is suppose to be the 21st century the age of knowledge and enlightenment. But it seems as the years roll by we are pushing ourselves into darkness. The more and more woman are trying to behave like men the more world is going into shambles. Woman have the precious task of creating the next generation. But since woman are more embroiled into what they call freedom the lawlessness goes worse. I wonder if someone else thinks the same way i dont mean to degrade anyone. We all have a part to play to make this world a better place but i think woman are more important in this respect. I have greatest of respect for woman and just in case anyone thinks i am against woman, i personally think that woman are the better half in a relationship.

I would like to know more woman of this world. Any Muslim woman around the world are welcome, also anyone who wants to become Muslim or any one for friendship. :guitarist


Going into shambles?

Dear, men have always started wars. Up until the last century, they made all the laws. Have they done a job well? Better than you think a woman can do? How will you know unless you give them a chance?

But since woman are more embroiled into what they call freedom the lawlessness goes worse


Please explain this. What lawlessness? What does that mean, anyway?

[RedGlitter]

I hope this isn't going to be a thread abouit how women should stay home and cook for their husbands, etc. Women have yet to receive full freedom- we still get paid less than men, we're still seen as sex objects and even if we have to work an outside job, we're expected to do all the household running as well. Men have little changed.



The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. And that woman's hand deserves as much freedom as that of any man.

[911]

RedGlitter;509275 wrote: I hope this isn't going to be a thread abouit how women should stay home and cook for their husbands, etc. Women have yet to receive full freedom- we still get paid less than men, we're still seen as sex objects and even if we have to work an outside job, we're expected to do all the household running as well. Men have little changed.



The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. And that woman's hand deserves as much freedom as that of any man.


HEAR, HEAR! :yh_clap

[BabyRider]

This is one I can't sit by, invisible, and read and not respond to.



WOMEN have the "precious task" of creating the next generation? Last time I checked, it took 2 people to make a baby.

And how, in your blatantly narrowed brain, are women "lawless"??? It surprises me not in the slightest that you have this view, considering your uhh.....heritage, but for God's sake, get some clue of the world outside your own neatly boxed one before you blabber on about crap like this.

You say you "don't mean to degrade anyone" but the very next comment just craps all over men. What a joke. Here's a clue for ya: Without men, say "Bye-bye" to the human race. And fun. And pleasure or enjoyment or making your life mean anything or any one of hundreds of other things.

This thread is more proof that the dumbing down of the planet is rampant and holds no prejudice.

[sallahudin]

I almost knew that this is going to hit raw nerves, and how can i blabber on about crap like this (is beyond belief). Calling me narrow minded does not absolve you from the truth.

I am not saying woman should stay at home and cook and all that. Woman have a great responsibility in reshaping the moral principals of this earth. I dont need lecture on birds and the bees. Let me explain (just sit down make a cup of tea).

Why are men and woman made differently, simple each one has a certain things to do to keep everything in order. When we start interfering in others responsabillities that things start going wrong. Next part is not for faint hearts. A mans built is such that it would be better that he goes out and earns for the family. In this day and age it is not practical, so the best thing to do is for the other half to help out as well and do something where by she can look after the home and kids as well. That does not say that man only has to go to work come home and everything handed on a plate to him. It may be surprising to a lot of people that no matter what the circumstances be a man cannot bear a child. After a man comes home he should help out in the household chores, whatever needs to be done so that its a "togather" thing.

I have no shame in doing house work whether be cooking or anything else.

Lawlessness; a woman grooms the next generation she is with the child lot more.

[sallahudin]

If a woman is off to work very early in the morning to let children do what they please. They dont get the nourishment they need they get irritable, go into the wrong company. Hence you have a generation growing up without knowing the caring part. There are numerous case histories to prove that when a couple looks after their kids, they grow up to be much better citizens. Other wise we reap the rewards of their unruely behaviour later on as they make life difficult for ordinary citizens. A womans influence is hell of a lot more than mans.



A person who lives in the dark cannot show light to others:-5

[BabyRider]

sallahudin;509369 wrote: I almost knew that this is going to hit raw nerves, and how can i blabber on about crap like this (is beyond belief). Calling me narrow minded does not absolve you from the truth.

{....}

After a man comes home he should help out in the household chores, whatever needs to be done so that its a "togather" thing.

I have no shame in doing house work whether be cooking or anything else.

Lawlessness; a woman grooms the next generation she is with the child lot more.
Hate to break it to you but I have zero need for absolution. And this "truth" that you're rambling about is YOUR truth, not mine, nor any of the people that I know. You want to start a thread about stuff like this, especially when it's in a forum that is dominated by many MANY independent , self-sufficient women you're going to hear stuff you don't like. That's the truth in this big world.

You also conveniently blow right past the man's obligation to help raise and form the child. You're apparently a NARROW-MINDED bubblehead, and I'm done with you.

[Galbally]

I think sallhudin, thats its a valid debate to have about the roles and perceptions of men and women are when it comes to life in general, as well as the obvious biology. I see that you are coming from a Muslim perspective, which as you know, is much different from ours in the West on this issue. I can't speak from a Muslim point of view, as I am not a Muslim, but from a Western point of view, we think (from the ideas of the European enlightenment), that all people, whether they be men or women, should, under law, be treated equally in principal, in terms of legal status, marraige, property, etc etc.

Now, of course thats the idea, in practice it doesn't work out quite so well, but the principal is a guideing one now, and its the basis on which much of what we consider to be the emancipation of women has occurred in western countries over the last 100 years. It certainly has had huge social consequences, and though still men remain in control in many social areas, the agenda has shifted in many ways, if not always the perspective.

I think that the important thing in our societies at least, is to give women the equal ability to state what they want, and the freedom to do it, as I believe that if people are given the freedom to make their own life decisions and the opportunity to attain their goals, they will usually make good decisions, and will be personally happy because of it. It doesn't mean that life gets easier, because life is always difficult, whether you are a man or woman, black, white, christian, muslim etc. Its being allowed to decide for yourself that matters.

[sallahudin]

My "heritage" , get a life, my heritage teaches me a lot more then yours ever will. it teaches me respect for others, it teaches not to take someone else for granted even if it happens to be my other half. It also teaches me to not to implore woman in the name of freedom (so that they take off as many clothes as they can, to parade half naked) and call it that they are equal to men. Sick minds have no bounderys.



No one can make others understand unless they open their mind.:-4

[sallahudin]

See thats where the problem lies, more freedom means even more after a while, give a human one thing then sooner rather later they want a little more. We are never satisfied with what we have. Another thing is that we always look at these things as " what way might be ok for one culture is not good for others". I believe that we should take good from each other.

[Galbally]

sallahudin;509410 wrote: See thats where the problem lies, more freedom means even more after a while, give a human one thing then sooner rather later they want a little more. We are never satisfied with what we have. Another thing is that we always look at these things as " what way might be ok for one culture is not good for others". I believe that we should take good from each other.


OK, but who gets to decide what you can do, who you can be with, and where you can go? Who determines what "freedom", "morality", or "truth" is? Some old guy in a church, a mosque, a debating chamber? Why not let people themselves have as much freedom as possible (and total freedom is not possible or desirable BTW), instead of allowing yourself to be told who and what you are, work it out for yourself, and if you come to the same conclusions as now, then great, you are happy. Thats the point, and the heart of the matter, your life shouldn't be judged solely on the fact that you are a woman and have babies should it?, and always by men.

For my part, I don't have a problem if you are happy with the social structures in regards to women that you have, thats fine, and you should be open minded enough to aknowledge that we do not share the same values as you, at all. We just don't see things the same way. It serves your argument nothing to just spout the usual propaganda we hear being said about our way of life, from people who don't live it, and don't understand it. We are not fools, or sex maniacs, whatever you seem to think.

[RedGlitter]

Regardless of our build Galbally, women have been earning their bread and earning their keep for millenia. If it's not by going out into the working world then it's sex for rent and food under the guise of marriage and keeping our men happy. I would expound on my thinking but right now I'm a little more than miffed at what I am reading.

[RedGlitter]

sallahudin;509390 wrote: If a woman is off to work very early in the morning to let children do what they please. They dont get the nourishment they need they get irritable, go into the wrong company. Hence you have a generation growing up without knowing the caring part. There are numerous case histories to prove that when a couple looks after their kids, they grow up to be much better citizens. Other wise we reap the rewards of their unruely behaviour later on as they make life difficult for ordinary citizens. A womans influence is hell of a lot more than mans.








My late grandmother worked and raised 6 kids during a war all by herself as her husband died. All turned out fine. Don't presume to tell me that a woman who works can't raise her kids because I will laugh in your face.



And how dare you insult men by that callous sexist remark? We are trying to get our men to contribute more to their families and responsibilities in the home and here you are throwing us back to the dark ages! I resent that deeply.

[Galbally]

RedGlitter;509510 wrote: Regardless of our build Galbally, women have been earning their bread and earning their keep for millenia. If it's not by going out into the working world then it's sex for rent and food under the guise of marriage and keeping our men happy. I would expound on my thinking but right now I'm a little more than miffed at what I am reading.


Erm, I totally agree Redglitter, I am not sure why you are miffed? I am talking about the political and cultural emanciaption that happened to women in the western world in the 20th century, and I am supporting that fact? So I am not sure if we are disgareeing or agreeeing here? :-2

[sallahudin]

This is mainly to you "diuretic"

If there's anyone being offensive its you, may be it isnt your fault being "Australian", may be you have been drinking too much of that beer that you are so proud of. Anyway you need to lighten up, firstly i never insulted anyone, i did not insult anyones culture or their beliefs. I am giving a point of view and if you have the decency to read what i said so far then you will realize that i have not defamed any one. If you cannot reason then please leave it. It looks like you are not reading what i am writing.

If anyone is trying to push their views on to others its you. You are entitled to your freedom but how about others. Are they not allowed to have their own kind of freedom?, what you call freedom may not be exactly what others think. As far as i know the Muslims have never asked you to change your society for them. It has always been the western society demanding us to change to their views. Lets get this straight i dont want you to change, but let me live my life as i please. For your benefit i know more about your society then you, but you know nothing about my society and still try to insult it. No one is perfect their is a lot of things wrong in my society i am more angry at my society than yours.

[gmc]

My "heritage" , get a life, my heritage teaches me a lot more then yours ever will. it teaches me respect for others, it teaches not to take someone else for granted even if it happens to be my other half. It also teaches me to not to implore woman in the name of freedom (so that they take off as many clothes as they can, to parade half naked) and call it that they are equal to men. Sick minds have no bounderys.



No one can make others understand unless they open their mind.




It's human nature to try and attract members of the opposite sex.

Many religious followers of a putitanical disposition, christian and muslim alike have a prurient interest in sex and assume their own unhealthy obsession is shared by everyone else. the men in particular seem to feel it is somehow the womans fault if they are attracted to them. Original sin is a peculiarly male concept. We still have an attitude in the west that if a woman is raped she must have been asking. In assault cases allowances are made for the amount of provocation but with assaults on women the onus seems to be on her to prove they didn't provoke.

Being free also means you have to respect the rights of others to choose for themselves how they live. You may not approve of the life choices but you do not have the right to condemn actions unless they impact directly on you. Freedom does not mean you are free so long as you do what I tell you.

you mention heritage. Our heritage is, on one level, of tolerance of other cultures and beliefs and beingb prepared to learn from them. Freedom and liberty for all. Muslim women can wander around in the Burka in this country if they choose to do so yet covering your face when talking to others is deeply offensive and insulting in western culture "Look me in the eye" meet someone face to face, he wouldn't look me in the eye" idiomatic english is full of phrases illustration the importance of it. By covering women up from head to foot you make them in to non people. In western culture that is actually deeply offensive, but we tolerate it in our own country out of respect. On the other hand ex pats women living an saudi, for instance, are expected to put up with wearing tents and not being allowed to drive. Where is therespect there?

I've known muslim men born here and brought up in western culture yet every time a western woman smiled at them they assumed they were asking for sex. Mini skirts got them really excited. It was actually quite disturbing as they were obsessed with sex. You get the same thing with christians puritans. It's abnormal.

They went back to pakistan to get a wife that would do what they told them and would be content never to go out on their own. It was fear I think. They wanted women they could control rather than live with as a partner. Competing for females is a human activity fraught with difficulty, no wonder there is a desire to take the choice away from women on the part of those who feel inadequate to the task.

You show the same obsession. If you can't control your reaction to women it is you with the problem not them. You see sex obsessed men and women everywhere. That says more bout you than it does about our culture.

Don't subscribe to MTV if it offends you, stop watching porn channels-it's not compulsory you know, Leave the top shelf magazines alone and stop assuming that every women whose face you see is after you and life will be more comfortable.

Give votes to women and allow them the freedom to earn their own income and serve on the government. Who knows maybe you would enjoy the change.

[buttercup]

gmc;509872 wrote: It's human nature to try and attract members of the opposite sex.

Many religious followers of a putitanical disposition, christian and muslim alike have a prurient interest in sex and assume their own unhealthy obsession is shared by everyone else. the men in particular seem to feel it is somehow the womans fault if they are attracted to them. Original sin is a peculiarly male concept. We still have an attitude in the west that if a woman is raped she must have been asking. In assault cases allowances are made for the amount of provocation but with assaults on women the onus seems to be on her to prove they didn't provoke.

Being free also means you have to respect the rights of others to choose for themselves how they live. You may not approve of the life choices but you do not have the right to condemn actions unless they impact directly on you. Freedom does not mean you are free so long as you do what I tell you.

you mention heritage. Our heritage is, on one level, of tolerance of other cultures and beliefs and beingb prepared to learn from them. Freedom and liberty for all. Muslim women can wander around in the Burka in this country if they choose to do so yet covering your face when talking to others is deeply offensive and insulting in western culture "Look me in the eye" meet someone face to face, he wouldn't look me in the eye" idiomatic english is full of phrases illustration the importance of it. By covering women up from head to foot you make them in to non people. In western culture that is actually deeply offensive, but we tolerate it in our own country out of respect. On the other hand ex pats women living an saudi, for instance, are expected to put up with wearing tents and not being allowed to drive. Where is therespect there?

I've known muslim men born here and brought up in western culture yet every time a western woman smiled at them they assumed they were asking for sex. Mini skirts got them really excited. It was actually quite disturbing as they were obsessed with sex. You get the same thing with christians puritans. It's abnormal.

They went back to pakistan to get a wife that would do what they told them and would be content never to go out on their own. It was fear I think. They wanted women they could control rather than live with as a partner. Competing for females is a human activity fraught with difficulty, no wonder there is a desire to take the choice away from women on the part of those who feel inadequate to the task.

You show the same obsession. If you can't control your reaction to women it is you with the problem not them. You see sex obsessed men and women everywhere. That says more bout you than it does about our culture.

Don't subscribe to MTV if it offends you, stop watching porn channels-it's not compulsory you know, Leave the top shelf magazines alone and stop assuming that every women whose face you see is after you and life will be more comfortable.

Give votes to women and allow them the freedom to earn their own income and serve on the government. Who knows maybe you would enjoy the change.


:yh_clap

havent seen you around for a while gmc, busy at work?

[Accountable]

:wah:



I hope ya'll are in this for the exercise & not for real debate. I feel like I'm watching an episode of "Punked" and the thread starter is trying not to laugh too loud while he's in the restroom re-gluing where his mustache came loose.

[Accountable]

:-2 Oi! :yh_frustr

[Imladris]

Dear Sallahudin,



I think you've got lost somewhere on the way to

www.ihatethewesternworld.com or www.mysogynistsrus.com.



If you go back out the front door, turn left then right you'll find the way quite easily.



Thank you for calling in but don't hurry back.



Immy



Also known as a western woman quite capable of working, meeting her husbands needs, bringing up well-rounded, moral and free-thinking children, and playing an active part in society.

[YZGI]

Hey give the guy a break. At least he is bashing Australians and not just Americans. Kinda nice for a change. Tongue firmly in cheek.

[sallahudin]

"boofhead" insane" medieval" "superstitious" Well coming from an Australian its an honour. Australians are not known for their generosity. Lighten up man, chill your beer a little more and cool down. If talking about beer is an insult then why you drink something which you dont like. It is not a swear word is it.

By the way i am much better than you in this world and here after. "accountable" is right.

I never lectured you on anything its your wondering mind taking a long drive. My culture is and always will be superior to you, you bet. Sorry no bets i am a Muslim.A person who lives in the dark cannot show light to others.

[RedGlitter]

sallahudin;510073 wrote: "boofhead" insane" medieval" "superstitious" Well coming from an Australian its an honour. Australians are not known for their generosity. Lighten up man, chill your beer a little more and cool down. If talking about beer is an insult then why you drink something which you dont like. It is not a swear word is it.

By the way i am much better than you in this world and here after. "accountable" is right.

I never lectured you on anything its your wondering mind taking a long drive. My culture is and always will be superior to you, you bet. Sorry no bets i am a Muslim.A person who lives in the dark cannot show light to others.


It's this kind of stupid thinking that renders Muslims overall as degenerates in my book. You sound like a real loser.

[Bez]

It might be useful if we had a bit more info. on YOU as a PERSON.



Where do you live ?

How old are you ?

Have you got Children ?

What do you do for a living ?



This thread hasn't worked too well as an introduction....a bit of 'Time out' to talk about other stuff may be useful.

[YZGI]

Diuretic;510462 wrote: Yzgi - does that mean we're running interference for you?
Trust me. We can use all the interference we can get.:wah:

[Accountable]

sallahudin;510073 wrote: "accountable" is right.
There it is! the admission. He's really a sophomore trying to impress his new frat pledges. :wah: