Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Discuss the Muslim Faith.
freetobeme
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by freetobeme »

Jester;875312 wrote: Then the majority of the peace loving Muslums dont love peace enough to stop the violence.


Or they actually do agree with the violence, or at least that Islam is the only true religion and all others are infidels?



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Ted
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Ted »

I guess it would be appropriate to judge all Christians on the basis of Phelps or the other extremists like abortion doctor killers or evangelists that call for the assassination of duly elected foreign presidents.

Shalom

Ted:-6
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by AussiePam »

I was recently reading an interview with a 'moderate' Muslim writer in a French magazine. His contention was that islamic extremist fundamentalism is relatively recent. He considered that it had started in his native Egypt in the thirties, at a time when totalitarianism was raising its own ugly head in the west.

I've lost the article, but it's an interesting idea, which has remained with me.
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gmc
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Post by gmc »

Jester;875301 wrote: Well, since the muslums are self determining a whole now book other than the bible then its not the same God of the bible, they claim that but you can't have one book say one thing and another the exact opposite and expect it come form the same God.

Sorry but either they are wrong or the bible is, one thier part they want to use force and violence to evertything that counters thier god. Christianity predominatly wants to be leftin freedom to practice love and compassion.


How about you're both wrong and you're arguing about a fantasy:sneaky: (I'm joking let's not go there in this thread).

posted by aussie pam

I was recently reading an interview with a 'moderate' Muslim writer in a French magazine. His contention was that islamic extremist fundamentalism is relatively recent. He considered that it had started in his native Egypt in the thirties, at a time when totalitarianism was raising its own ugly head in the west.

I've lost the article, but it's an interesting idea, which has remained with me.


You tend to get extremism coming to the fore when there is a lot of anger at frustration at the way things are. They're political where there are institutions in place and some scope for parties to form, religious where they are not. Wahibsm started in saudi arabia encouraged by the rulers who don't allow political freedom so the only outlet for the discontent is religion. Same in egypt it was utlet fopr discontent. Same in europe when you had the reformation-it was a much political in origin as religious.
freetobeme
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by freetobeme »

I thought I'd add this to this thread, or maybe it should have been a new one, either way, here is some more food for thought.

I wonder how many of these acts it will take for the western world to realize that these acts will increase unless gov'ts take some action. The U.K. has already said this has happened at least 100 time there.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,358661,00.html

Afghan Girl's 'Honor Killing' Sparks Debate in Germany

Tuesday, May 27, 2008



The brutal "honor killing" of a 16-year-old Afghan immigrant by her brother has sparked a renewed debate in Germany over whether Islamic families can adapt to the social ways of the Western world.

The girl, Morsal Obeidi, was ambushed in the parking lot of a Hamburg McDonald's restaurant by her 23-year-old brother Ahmad, who stabbed the girl 20 times, Spiegel Online reported. Hamburg is home to more than 20,000 Afghan immigrants, the most of any European city, the Web site reported.

Morsal Obeidi had long struggled with a tug-of-war between her desire to live like her friends in Germany, and her family’s desire to preserve their Afghan lifestyle, the site reported.

Obeidi's arguments with her brother and father, over things like her appearance, smoking and drinking, often turned physical. She reportedly sought the protection of a child and youth welfare agency to escape the violence on more than one occasion.

Ahmed reportedly told police that he killed his sister because she had become too comfortable with Western life with her uncovered hair, makeup and short skirts.

..

Britain has seen more than 25 women killed by their Muslim relatives in the past decade for offenses they believed brought shame on the family. More than 100 other homicides are under investigation as potential honor killings.


U.K. and "honour killings"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007 ... ling_N.htm
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freetobeme
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by freetobeme »

LOL thanks - but I allready know what he's going to say



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QUINNSCOMMENTARY
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by QUINNSCOMMENTARY »

kiwimum76;874502 wrote: Well, Im really over this whole topic, so I'll leave my final opinion here.

1. I don't believe Islam to be more or less violent than any other.

2. There are many, many peaceful people following Islam as there are those following Christianity. The behaviour of extremists doesn't mean that everyone will go to those extremes.

3. I don't agree with violent behaviour regardless of who commits it.

4. Some of the statistics quoted have no meaning without having some comparison, preferably from another religion.

5. People should be seen for who they are, good or bad. Religion alone shouldn't define who you do or don't wish to associate with, neither should race etc.

6. I can't change other peoples opinion or belief structure but I don't think initing intolerance and anger serves any purpose. It saddens me to see people writing off a huge number of people, based on the actions of a few. That to me is ignorant and uncalled for. I feel sorry for people who think like that. I feel sorry for the friendships they will miss out on. I feel sorry for them for being so focussed on bad things that they can't see the good. I feel sorry for their immediate family and children that they are feeding such negative and generalised information.


I have no doubt there are many peaceful people who are Muslim, just as there are violent people who are of other religions, but it seems strange that you can say Islam is no more violent than other religions when the evidence is clear everyday. People have been murdered in the street for saying what is perceived as anti Muslim, an author sentenced to death for writing a book, young men believe they will be rewarded in heaven if they blow up innocent people all in the name of Islam. It does not matter if the Muslim religion teaches such behavior outright (although I think an argument could be made for that position), what matters is that the religion can be used to justify such actions, that it can be corrupted into what most rational people would view as evil. How can a religion that condones or even requires stoning someone in the 21st century not be viewed as violent? Is seems to me that the measure of any religion is how it can be used or abused in the hands of human beings, I think the Muslim religion today fails that test and with no formal head or structure beyond thousands of people making their own interpretation of the religion I think it will only get worse. This is enhanced by the region of the world in which it resides where there is high unemployment, high illiteracy and corrupt and authoritarian governments.
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gmc
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by gmc »

posted by quinns comentary

Is seems to me that the measure of any religion is how it can be used or abused in the hands of human beings, I think the Muslim religion today fails that test and with no formal head or structure beyond thousands of people making their own interpretation of the religion I think it will only get worse. This is enhanced by the region of the world in which it resides where there is high unemployment, high illiteracy and corrupt and authoritarian governments.


Well that should annoy all the protestants and please the catholics.
freetobeme
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Post by freetobeme »

Might as well add to the pot here a bit and stir it.

Guess this was the peaceful moderates huh since they only killed 6 or so

Bomb hits Pakistan Danish embassy

Scene of blast

The blast damaged the embassy and nearby vehicles

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7430721.stm

At least six people have been killed and 30 injured in a car bomb attack near the Danish embassy in the Pakistani capital Islamabad.

An embassy worker was among the dead and three were hurt but no Danish citizens were killed or injured.

Danish PM Anders Fogh Rasmussen called the act "cowardly" and said it would not change Danish policies.



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Snidely Whiplash
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Snidely Whiplash »

I might be a bit behind the times here, but I guess as a relitive new member I didn't get the initial post or what it was about except the topic title....? To that I will reply, as politically incorrect as I may be, my view will not change..... Not until the Islamic people change.........

This picture relates exactly how I feel on this issue, please don't delete it because of political correctness, I'm Danish, even though I live in the USA, and I am sick and tired of being threatened and attacked for my view, or a silly cartoon written into a news article, it is wrong to shut down thinking and writing because it might not be what some others want to read or hear, or offend someone........ That very thought offends me, and most of the rest of the world....! :-5 I hope that you all are a part of that world..........



It is completely true that most muslims are peaceful, and as my community here has some such families, I accept them and am completely willing to, and have befriended them....

But as history has shown with sober reality over the ages, Islam IS NOT a peaceful religion, to it's credit are millions and millions of murders and deaths worldwide, more than any other group, religion or belief system in history, perhaps arguably with communism, which also has taken many millions of lives.....

Just my reply from the facts and history that all are able to read and collect....

Peace and blessings to the peaceful muslims of the world....! Please take care of your radicals, so we who are on they're "death list" don't have to defend ourselves and our families because you won't..................
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Snidely Whiplash;884804 wrote: I might be a bit behind the times here, but I guess as a relitive new member I didn't get the initial post or what it was about except the topic title....? To that I will reply, as politically incorrect as I may be, my view will not change..... Not until the Islamic people change.........

This picture relates exactly how I feel on this issue, please don't delete it because of political correctness, I'm Danish, even though I live in the USA, and I am sick and tired of being threatened and attacked for my view, or a silly cartoon written into a news article, it is wrong to shut down thinking and writing because it might not be what some others want to read or hear, or offend someone........ That very thought offends me, and most of the rest of the world....! :-5 I hope that you all are a part of that world..........



It is completely true that most muslims are peaceful, and as my community here has some such families, I accept them and am completely willing to, and have befriended them....

But as history has shown with sober reality over the ages, Islam IS NOT a peaceful religion, to it's credit are millions and millions of murders and deaths worldwide, more than any other group, religion or belief system in history, perhaps arguably with communism, which also has taken many millions of lives.....

Just my reply from the facts and history that all are able to read and collect....

Peace and blessings to the peaceful muslims of the world....! Please take care of your radicals, so we who are on they're "death list" don't have to defend ourselves and our families because you won't..................


Like the cartoon. Christianity isn't exactly a peaceful religion either IMO it's a toss up which is worse. Maybe the difference the conflicts got fought to the end in europe but they were always as much political and economic as they were religious. The more worrying aspect of all this is the Christian churches trying to reassert their authority and claim back what they have lost.

When an arab can make the equilvalent to monty python the life of brian-maybe something like the life of saddam-will be a sign that progress has been made. The really daft thing in all this is that the majority of the worls population is neither christian or muslim. they create trouble beyond their numbers.

Religion is the bane of society. Luckily living in a secular society I am free to say that without fear of being burned as a heretic.
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Bryn Mawr
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Post by Bryn Mawr »

Jester;886364 wrote: It's no where near a toss up, Islam remains the most violent religion in history and they are just getting warmed up.


Care to give some evidence of that - maybe covering the last 1500 yeas since the establishment of Islam as an effective force?
Snidely Whiplash
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Post by Snidely Whiplash »

gmc;885852 wrote: Like the cartoon. Christianity isn't exactly a peaceful religion either IMO it's a toss up which is worse.




I'm sure that the "toss up" of Christian violence you are refering to was the so-called "Christian Crusade", when the Catholics went on a war rampage against the Islamic world....? Ooooooh those war mongering Christians...! :wah:

Too bad that the truth is that the violence of the Christians against the muslims was BECAUSE the islamic world had taken over 2/3's of Christian's land and cities, and had murdered it's people and burned down all the Catholic churches in those territories.....

The Christian Crusades that so many point out is evidence that Christianity is just as violent as Islam, was only self defense, and a defensive necesity to push back the violent muslims that had ravaged 2/3's of their land already, and was trying to completely destroy the Christian world.........

Just like it's more radical groups are doing today...... Nothing much has changed....? Except the ignorance of so many people as to history and to what is really happening, under the cloak of multi-culturlism and political correctness....

Excuse me, but NO CHRISTIAN'S today are beheading anyone, or blowing up anything in the name of they're God, or planning to make the world one Christian State.....??? Islam is...........!!!!

:-3
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Post by gmc »

Snidely Whiplash;886478 wrote: I'm sure that the "toss up" of Christian violence you are refering to was the so-called "Christian Crusade", when the Catholics went on a war rampage against the Islamic world....? Ooooooh those war mongering Christians...! :wah:

Too bad that the truth is that the violence of the Christians against the muslims was BECAUSE the islamic world had taken over 2/3's of Christian's land and cities, and had murdered it's people and burned down all the Catholic churches in those territories.....

The Christian Crusades that so many point out is evidence that Christianity is just as violent as Islam, was only self defense, and a defensive necesity to push back the violent muslims that had ravaged 2/3's of their land already, and was trying to completely destroy the Christian world.........

Just like it's more radical groups are doing today...... Nothing much has changed....? Except the ignorance of so many people as to history and to what is really happening, under the cloak of multi-culturlism and political correctness....

Excuse me, but NO CHRISTIAN'S today are beheading anyone, or blowing up anything in the name of they're God, or planning to make the world one Christian State.....??? Islam is...........!!!!

:-3


Actually it wasn't particularly the crusades I was talking about and they weren't quite as black and white, christian good muslim bad, as you seem to magine they were. Christians have slaughtered more jews than muslims have ever dreamed of managing to kill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Crusade

Over the course of that afternoon, evening and next morning, the crusaders murdered almost every inhabitant of Jerusalem.[24] Muslims, Jews, and even eastern Christians were all massacred. Although many Muslims sought shelter in Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Jews in their synagogue by the Western wall, the crusaders spared few lives. According to the anonymous Gesta Francorum, in what some believe to be an exaggerated account of the massacre which subsequently took place there, "...the slaughter was so great that our men waded in blood up to their ankles..."[25] Other accounts of blood flowing up to the bridles of horses are reminiscent of a passage from the Book of Revelation (14:20). Tancred claimed the Temple quarter for himself and offered protection to some of the Muslims there, but he was unable to prevent their deaths at the hands of his fellow crusaders. According to Fulcher of Chartres: "Indeed, if you had been there you would have seen our feet coloured to our ankles with the blood of the slain. But what more shall I relate? None of them were left alive; neither women nor children were spared".[26]


wikipedia is a useful first source if you feel like investigating further

It wasn't particularly the crusades I was thinking of-more christian on christian. The crusades were only part of the slaughter, almost incidental in a way. I was thinking more of the religious wars in europe. christian on christian-try these for starters

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War

Over the course of the war, the population of the German states was reduced by about 30%.[8] In the territory of Brandenburg, the losses had amounted to half, while in some areas an estimated two-thirds of the population died. The male population of the German states was reduced by almost half. The population of the Czech lands declined by a third. The Swedish armies alone destroyed 2,000 castles, 18,000 villages and 1,500 towns in Germany, one-third of all German towns.[9][10][11][12]




(bet you thought sweden was always neutral in war)

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/REFORM/WARS.HTM

Then of course there was the inquisition. No not the Monty Python one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

The english civil war, What do you think that was about-at least in part, or the covenanting wars.

they are almost too many to list and that's without starting on the wars waged by christian kings against pagans in their own lands and against neighbouring pagan kingdoms. The Vikings and magyars would hardly have seen the christians as peaceful-not that they were particuarly peaceful themselves.

Then of course there is the impact of christianity on the new world with a god given right to do as they pleased with the locals in the course of bringing christian civilisation to the primitive world.

When it comes to warfare and blood letting christians take a back seat to nobody. the muslims-as you may or may not know never managed to conquer europe.

You'd have loved this guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_III_the_Impaler

In response to this, Sultan Mehmed II, the recent conqueror of Constantinople, raised an army of around 60,000 troops and 30,000 irregulars and in the spring of 1462 headed towards Wallachia. Sultan Mehmed the Conqueror was greeted by the sight of a veritable forest of stakes on which Vlad the Impaler had impaled 20,000 Turkish prisoners.[


Just like it's more radical groups are doing today...... Nothing much has changed....? Except the ignorance of so many people as to history and to what is really happening, under the cloak of multi-culturlism and political correctness....




Your own knowledge of history seems a little sketchy at best-or maybe just selective.

Excuse me, but NO CHRISTIAN'S today are beheading anyone, or blowing up anything in the name of they're God, or planning to make the world one Christian State.....??? Islam is...........!!!!


I'd watch them though-given half a chance they're just as capable of being a bunch of sadistic, intolerant, misogynistic people as any muslim, and they've got nuclear weapons. I worry about a born again christian with an insane belief in armageddon and access to nuclear weapons.

God save us from the religious. ( assuming there really is a god of course, which personally I consider a moot point)
JerryG
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by JerryG »

Interesting discussion. It seems every group of people kill others. Moslems, Christians, Jews, atheists, etc. The tribal insiders are friends. The outsiders are enemies.

We live in a competitive world. Years ago killing others and taking their posessions was a way to increase wealth and power. Many people use more modern techniques like laying off workers and sending work to foreign countries. They do not kill, they merely push people into poverty.

Thus man's nature and power lust and greed produce the horrors we see. Man's nature gets into religions. So revelation from God and religions are tainted by man's nature. The Bible shows God telling the Jews to utterly destroy and enemy people. Was that God? Or was it merely war and survival?

All religions have their good and bad points. I wonder if the Jews would have survived Christianity without Islam. Islam certainly was a counterbalance to Christianity. Christianity never prevented wars between Christian countries.

Islam is at war with itself. If the whole world was Islamic, people would still be killing each other.

China tends to be overpopulated because they tend to be more peaceful to each other. Hindus also tend to kill each other less.

All religions have good and bad points. Any interaction between man and God always distorts the message. In addition most the communication or voices come from a man's soul and not God directly. We have a spiritual dimension and voices most often come from this dimension. Prophets tend to think this is God's voice but it is merely the interpretation of God's voice by man's mind.

Thus people are fooled into believing that the words are from God whereas the data received has been brought low by the interaction with man.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

JerryG;888286 wrote: Interesting discussion. It seems every group of people kill others. Moslems, Christians, Jews, atheists, etc. The tribal insiders are friends. The outsiders are enemies.

We live in a competitive world. Years ago killing others and taking their posessions was a way to increase wealth and power. Many people use more modern techniques like laying off workers and sending work to foreign countries. They do not kill, they merely push people into poverty.

Thus man's nature and power lust and greed produce the horrors we see. Man's nature gets into religions. So revelation from God and religions are tainted by man's nature. The Bible shows God telling the Jews to utterly destroy and enemy people. Was that God? Or was it merely war and survival?

All religions have their good and bad points. I wonder if the Jews would have survived Christianity without Islam. Islam certainly was a counterbalance to Christianity. Christianity never prevented wars between Christian countries.

Islam is at war with itself. If the whole world was Islamic, people would still be killing each other.

China tends to be overpopulated because they tend to be more peaceful to each other. Hindus also tend to kill each other less.

All religions have good and bad points. Any interaction between man and God always distorts the message. In addition most the communication or voices come from a man's soul and not God directly. We have a spiritual dimension and voices most often come from this dimension. Prophets tend to think this is God's voice but it is merely the interpretation of God's voice by man's mind.

Thus people are fooled into believing that the words are from God whereas the data received has been brought low by the interaction with man.


Where on earth do you get the idea that chinese and hindus are more peaceful than anyone else? Religion adds a new dimension of horror to warfare it's a moot point whether it's man's nature that gets in to religion or whether religion appeals to something really nasty in mankind.

It's a truism that bad people do bad things for bad reasons, but it takes religion to get someone to do bad things for "good" reasons. The torturers of the inquisition did it to save souls sane people think they did it because they were sadistic bastards.

islamic suicide bombers do it to go to heaven themselves, christian fundamentalist want to send everybody else there first.
hamdiderot
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Post by hamdiderot »

Islam is a slam in the face of peace (in case peace is really possible)

The futher from Islam societies are, the better they get.

All religions which are organized and established are nasty and violent because a structure is made to which everybody is to conform.

Violent is not necessarily brutality. When you read the Koran you feel violence in words and commandments and so we don't need Bin Laden to know that Islam's teachings are contrary to tolerance in all terms. Explicitly the laws of Pakistan, Afghanistan and Saudi Arabia and....state that apostates or those who dare to convert to another religion are to be killed. They kill people for difference in opinion which is the utmost cruelty.

The sort of adulterers and gays is death , no better than in the Bible.

No music is allowed (i mean according to the dogma of Islam itself not in practice):guitarist,

no dance, no drinking, no contact between men and women. this is peace! (in case we have no mental health to care about) .

Until this day no woman is allowed to drive a car in Saudi Arabia (sorry for GMC cuz the country is very rich).

No woman is allowed to go out without the imperative company of a male parent.

Disrespectful of all kinds of liberties and that is violence against the individual.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

ham:-6

Welcome.

Research has shown that the basis of all of the world's great faiths is justice and compassion. That being said it does appear that something has been lost in the translation, so to speak.

Shalom

Ted:-6
gatekeeper
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Post by gatekeeper »

Human rights are violated.

If one says, "no, that is not true",

Then I would ask, "females are not human?"

A cow is treated better than ones' own mother.





What woman in her right mind would ever agree to live like that?

What ever happened to the idea called: Empathy, kindness and Love?

Where is the location of all violence, hatred and confusion including genocide?



God is Love he does not bless evil.
gatekeeper
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Post by gatekeeper »

Besides, what make people believe they are going to heaven?

The idea is a resurrection; UP from the Grave, from hell ( the grave sheol) beneath.

Proverbs 15:24

The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

The adversary has succeeded to mislead mankind to their own destruction.
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Ted;890349 wrote: ham:-6

Welcome.

Research has shown that the basis of all of the world's great faiths is justice and compassion. That being said it does appear that something has been lost in the translation, so to speak.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Research has shown that the basis of religious faith is the blind belief in a ridiculous fantasy without regard to any evidence or even basic common sense. It has to be reinforced with constant brainwashing and if that doesn't work there is always fear. Anyone not believing is assumed to be deluded and therefore a non person.

Islam is not any more warlike than christianity it is simply that Christianity is going through a quite period of being tolerant cos the population finally had enough of constant warfare in the name of religion.

God save us from the religious:D
Ted
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Post by Ted »

gmc:-6

Of course I have to disagree with much of what you wrote but not all.

You might want to check "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong.

Shalom

Ted:-6
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Ted;892000 wrote: gmc:-6

Of course I have to disagree with much of what you wrote but not all.

You might want to check "The Great Transformation" by Karen Armstrong.

Shalom

Ted:-6


I've read reviews of her books and talking(?) to the likes of your self might encourage me to have a read for myself. I don't think much of the basic hypothesis of an axial age when mankind became a spiritual being. I alwys think it shows a breathtaking arrogance . Human beings have been physically much the same and have enjoyed the same brain capacity for a very long time indeed. It is to exercise the worst sort of condescension of posterity to think that only in the last 3,000 of those long years did humankind jack itself up to think creatively and variously about the tragedy of existence.

Bit like von daniken and his daft theories about space aliens building the pyramids, our ancestors were as intelligent as us and just as capable of working out how to get things done.

But you need to have a practical reason to invent writing and we really don't know what people thought before then. Funny how the axial age coincides with the start of written histories.

It's the breathtaking arrogance of the religious who believe they and only they have any idea of moral sense and how we should all be living that causes so much of the problem. Pagans called the christian god the selfish god because he wanted everything for himself and would leave nothing for any other god destroying their followers if they wouldn't convert (can't provide a link for that read it somewhere and have always thought it very apt). Monotheistic religions by their very nature intolerant and destructive.
Ted
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Post by Ted »

gmc:-6

You do make some valid points.

Yes man has been as intelligent for a very long time. However, what was lacking was knowledge. That knowledge has changed how man thinks. Apparently there is evidence of religious thought long before the "axial" age.

I do think that your complaint that religious people have and do display arrogance to telling others how to live and believe and what morals to follow is right on. However, that does not reflect the thinking of all and especially today with modern thinking on these issues. Men such as Matthew Fox find much wisdom even in the oldest sacred writings and do not limit it to one approach.

I believe there is much benefit to be found in all of the world's great faiths when their original thinking is taken into consideration hence I refer to Karen Armstrong. Another book by her is "A History of God" which is an interesting look at the history of man's concept of God.

Shalom

Ted:-6
gmc
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Post by gmc »

Ted;892348 wrote: gmc:-6

You do make some valid points.

Yes man has been as intelligent for a very long time. However, what was lacking was knowledge. That knowledge has changed how man thinks. Apparently there is evidence of religious thought long before the "axial" age.

I do think that your complaint that religious people have and do display arrogance to telling others how to live and believe and what morals to follow is right on. However, that does not reflect the thinking of all and especially today with modern thinking on these issues. Men such as Matthew Fox find much wisdom even in the oldest sacred writings and do not limit it to one approach.

I believe there is much benefit to be found in all of the world's great faiths when their original thinking is taken into consideration hence I refer to Karen Armstrong. Another book by her is "A History of God" which is an interesting look at the history of man's concept of God.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Apparently there is evidence of religious thought long before the "axial" age.


No apparently about it at all. Near where i live is a 3,000 real old burial site. On Orkney there's this one

http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/isbister/

One of the spookiest places I've been in. You don't bury your dead or build temples without some good reason like a belief in a higher power. What is the point otherwise? There's umpteen signs of spiritual life all over the world.

http://users.aber.ac.uk/jpg/malta/arch.html

http://www.islandspics.com/webpage/page/page123.html

The idea that there was a great awakening of morality due to monotheism is one I find deeply irritating. Along with the notion that you have to be religious to have a moral sense really pisses me off. Karen Armstrong (bear in mind I haven't actually read any of her books) like many religious writers looks for facts to back up her theories. many of them display a breathtaking ignorance of human history. Our ancestors got around a lot more than we give them credit for.
Ted
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Ted »

gmc:-6

You might find Karen's work interesting.

She began as a nun became an atheist and returned to a belief in God. Her work does not give the impression she is looking for facts to prove her theories but that her theories came out of her work.

Whether or not any individual chooses to believe in the Divine or not is their business and certainly none of mine.

Shalom

Ted:-6
koan
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by koan »

Ted;892635 wrote: Her work does not give the impression she is looking for facts to prove her theories but that her theories came out of her work.




That's what I like about Karen Armstrong's work. She is very fair and impartial, as much as a writer can be.
gmc
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by gmc »

Ted;892635 wrote: gmc:-6

You might find Karen's work interesting.

She began as a nun became an atheist and returned to a belief in God. Her work does not give the impression she is looking for facts to prove her theories but that her theories came out of her work.

Whether or not any individual chooses to believe in the Divine or not is their business and certainly none of mine.

Shalom

Ted:-6


I'm intrigued enough to look it out some time. A hunt in the loval library seems called for.

Whether or not any individual chooses to believe in the Divine or not is their business and certainly none of mine.




I'd agree with you there (picks self off floor to which I fell in shock) If only all religious people thought the same.
Ted
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Ted »

gmc:-6

Sorry about that shock. LOL

Shalom

Ted:-6
Ted
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Ted »

I dare say there is nothing in the Qur'an that is more bloody and terror oriented than the Christian Bible's book of "Revelation".

Shalom

Ted:-6
hamdiderot
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by hamdiderot »

Koran, being smaller in size than the Bible, is a more concentrated (sometimes saturated) work of verbal violence of all sorts.
b0z0
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:19 am

Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by b0z0 »

I really don't think so.

People need to broaden their views about Islam. It is about dialogue.

If someone shows me all those wrong and bad images about Islam I can show the otherwise.

Then it is on you to decide which one is correct. BTW, I am not addressing to anyone in here.
CinnamonBear
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:08 am

Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by CinnamonBear »

"Islam a religion of peace?"



In a word, NO.

9/11 settled that. I like your style and presentation, Jester. I learned from your posts, thanks!
koan
Posts: 16817
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by koan »

CinnamonBear;1336545 wrote: "Islam a religion of peace?"



In a word, NO.

9/11 settled that. I like your style and presentation, Jester. I learned from your posts, thanks!
oh, lord.

not another one.

seriously?
CinnamonBear
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:08 am

Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by CinnamonBear »

koan;1336814 wrote: oh, lord.

not another one.

seriously?


Yep, another person, another opinion. I really liked Jester's style.
Its a narrow way
Posts: 51
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Its a narrow way »

Islam to me is just a creation of Ishmaelites as Ishmaelits never liked their Biblical Blessing . Ishmael being fortold as the trouble maker of earth and the blessing going to Isac then on to Jacob or Isreal just never settled good with Ishmaels decendents So they went on to write their own book. God had nothing to do with it.

just goes to show how easy it is for Satan to make men sincere but decieved .

I mean he must actually Laugh at some the things he can make men do and believe . Like getting men to blow themselves up along with Inocent people in hopes to get to Paradise where they will recieve 72 Virgins and a Penis that never softens has got to have Satan the Devil laughing to himself at the stupidity of mankind . You mean he really can teach man its all about sex ? This universe was created all about sex ?

Of course then there is main stream Christianity which any fool can see is something wrong with , so I guess this helps sell the qurans.
Aussie Harmony
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Aussie Harmony »

I can't help but agree with you Its a arrow Way. I have thought for some time that the Muslim belief was the Devi'ls religion.
Ahso!
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Islam - Religion Of Peace?

Post by Ahso! »

Aussie Harmony;1415208 wrote: I can't help but agree with you Its a arrow Way. I have thought for some time that the Muslim belief was the Devi'ls religion.Do you think there is much of a difference between strapping on explosives and strapping on a gun and volunteering for combat? Welcome to FG, BTW! :)
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities,”

Voltaire



I have only one thing to do and that's

Be the wave that I am and then

Sink back into the ocean

Fiona Apple
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