Brexit

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:17 am

Wandrin;1497816 wrote: What's the best guess as to when UK politicians will formally submit the article 50 paperwork to start the exit process?

End of the year?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 4:04 am

Personally I find it extremely demeaning & insulting when I am accused of believing or even following the likes of Farage or Boris. I took no notice of them whatsoever. They both appear to be totally mad. I made my decision based on my OWN observations. By saying that I made my decision because of what they said is implying I don't have a mind of my own. It would be like my saying that you only voted because you were afraid that Cameron was right & that by coming out it would lead to WW3.

Arguing semantics about a majority only being a majority if a majority of people actually voted one way or the other is typical of an apologetic grasping at straws. The fact remains that the majority of the public DID vote - something that is very unusual in elections in this country, as well as being a record turnout. Everyone was afforded the opportunity of voting. Those who didn't vote either did so because they couldn't be bothered, in which case they have no right to complain either way, or seriously didn't know, in which case wouldn't commit themselves - therefore implying Â½ a vote to either side.

At the General Election, Tories took 37% of the vote, whilst Labour took 30% with a turnout of 66% (quite high for the UK). However, even from those figures we accept that the Tories currently have a majority Government. No matter how close the result, Democracy means that the decision goes with those who take the HIGHEST NUMBER OF VOTES CAST. I don't have the actual numbers to hand, but I wouldn't be surprised if the number of votes cast for either Leave OR Remain comes to a total close to, or even greater than the total number of votes cast for Labour & Tory COMBINED.

The fact remains that an official majority is based on the number of votes CAST - not the number of votes AVAILABLE.

Incidentally, that Scotland was going to be remain was always going to be a foregone conclusion. Furthermore, I don't think there's any doubt that there will be a 2nd Independence Referendum there, and they will most likely turn to Leave the UK. With that scenario in mind, discounting the Scottish vote, the majority to Leave, across the remainder of the UK (England, Wales & NI) moves to 54% Leave % 46% Remain - doubling the majority in favour of Leave.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:06 am

FourPart;1497834 wrote: Personally I find it extremely demeaning & insulting when I am accused of believing or even following the likes of Farage or Boris. I took no notice of them whatsoever. They both appear to be totally mad. I made my decision based on my OWN observations. By saying that I made my decision because of what they said is implying I don't have a mind of my own. It would be like my saying that you only voted because you were afraid that Cameron was right & that by coming out it would lead to WW3.

You might not like being associated with Farage or Boris but, like it or not, the far right is taking the result as a mandate :-

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... ine-le-pen

'Go back home' - Bitter backlash post EU referendum - BBC News

Anti-Polish cards in Huntingdon after EU referendum - BBC News

It's the Rocky Horror Show - "With a lurch to the right"

Post by **spot** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:17 am

FourPart;1497834 wrote: Personally I find it extremely demeaning & insulting when I am accused of believing or even following the likes of Farage or Boris. I took no notice of them whatsoever.
You merely chose to put them in charge of the government.

To be brutally frank, I don't see the difference.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:30 am

spot;1497839 wrote: You merely chose to put them in charge of the government.

To be brutally frank, I don't see the difference.

I didn't. I voted Labour. I'm a Socialist. I just don't agree with the Labour stance on this issue. For the past 35 years Corbyn has campaigned against the EU. Only recently has he gone the other way, and it seems to stick his craw having to do so. I voted UKIP at the European Elections, not because I agreed with UKIP, in general, but on that issue they were the only party that realistically stood any chance of getting to represent my views on Europe. This stance was clearly reflected by the nation, as demonstrated by UKIP's landslide victory. However, that has no bearing on the rest of their political manifesto, as can be seen by their massive standing in the Commons (1 seat, is it)? The Euro Election was an indication of the Public feeling towards Europe, and the rest of the political establishment should have woken up & started listening to the Public at that point.

If the vote had gone to Remain, yes, I would have been disappointed, but would have accepted it as the majority decision, secure in the knowledge that the very act of a referendum might shake Europe up a little & actually start to get things sorted - otherwise another Referendum would eventually follow some time in the future, if the EU even survived that long. But I would have accepted the vote. I would have been equally disgusted if demands had been made for a new Referendum if the vote had gone to the same margin to Remain. The point is that if this Democratic vote is not followed through, I will have lost all faith in Democracy.

Post by **spot** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:34 am

FourPart;1497841 wrote: I didn't. I voted Labour.Who do you think is going to run the government for the next four years? The Leave group of UKIP and Conservatives for whom you voted on Thursday. On Thursday you consciously and deliberately chose to put them in charge of the government until the next general election. How can you possibly deny that?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:41 am

spot;1497843 wrote: Who do you think is going to run the government for the next four years? The Leave group of UKIP and Conservatives for whom you voted on Thursday. On Thursday you consciously and deliberately chose to put them in charge of the government until the next general election. How can you possibly deny that?

I don't see ANY probability of UKIP running the country for the next 4 years. The Leave / Remain vote was NOT Party Political. Far from it. Both Tories & Labour were officially campaigning to Remain. However, there were rebels on both sides and DESPITE the millions of Tax Payers money being pumped in to pay for the Remain propaganda, the majority of the country STILL chose to Leave. Does that make the majority of this country Far Right UKIP Supporters? If so, how come UKIP are not in Government?

Post by **spot** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:46 am

When the new Prime Minister is installed later this year, and he's chosen his cabinet, I'll come back to this thread and say look, Leave Team in charge of government, your doing. Okay?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:22 am

Why does anyone listen to Farage ?

He is leader of a minority party that just voted to end the main point for their existence, I would have said raison d'Ãªtre......seems neither the time or place.

It is ironic that we are actually listening to him, in that he is an MEP, and the European parliament is soooo remote etc.etc.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:54 am

There is also talk of an early General Election being called - Although maybe they'll call for another one after that if they don't like the result.

The fact remains that the majority of votes cast were Pro Brexit. Based on that, using your claim that everyone who voted Leave had to be supporters of UKIP, then by your logic, the next Prime Minister should be Farage, leading a UKIP Government.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:59 am

FourPart;1497852 wrote: There is also talk of an early General Election being called - Although maybe they'll call for another one after that if they don't like the result.

The fact remains that the majority of votes cast were Pro Brexit. Based on that, using your claim that everyone who voted Leave had to be supporters of UKIP, then by your logic, the next Prime Minister should be Farage, leading a UKIP Government.

Who on Earth claimed that?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:05 am

LarsMac;1497647 wrote: I got a kick out of the Twitter stuff The Donald Started today by praising Scotland for voting to exit the EU.

What a maroon. The guy gives our whole country a black eye every time he opens his mouth. I'd be even more mad if I didn't want him to make himself look as bad as possible.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 7:07 am

Tst. tsk. Buyer's remorse.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:27 am

Interesting take on things.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... paign=i100

Can't see david cameron as being that well thought out meself.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:37 am

gmc;1497874 wrote: Interesting take on things.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... paign=i100

Can't see david cameron as being that well thought out meself.

He didn't believe that he'd loose so he's dumped the mess on those who've won - I cannot see that they'll bottle out of making the declaration but whoever it is will be a dead duck by the next general election.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:27 pm

gmc;1497874 wrote: Can't see david cameron as being that well thought out meself.

Me neither, he is just sulking.....the pratt.

I see the English Football has taken brexit to heart, getting beaten by blooming Iceland.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:51 pm

I feel so much better now david icke approves.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 6:57 am

I saw FARANGE! Now I know who he is and what he looks like when you guys talk about him. He was being kind of a jerk and told a whole group of rich dudes from the EU that "so most of you have never done a proper job..."

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:47 am

Saint_;1497918 wrote: I saw FARANGE! Now I know who he is and what he looks like when you guys talk about him. He was being kind of a jerk and told a whole group of rich dudes from the EU that "so most of you have never done a proper job..."

That's not rich dudes, that's the European Parliament......here it is.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 11:33 am

Pretty bold thing to say to a meeting of the most powerful people on the planet...

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:25 pm

Saint_;1497938 wrote: Pretty bold thing to say to a meeting of the most powerful people on the planet...

Together they might be powerful, but individually they are all just like him, passengers on the Euro gravy train.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:49 pm

Saint_;1497918 wrote: I saw FARANGE! Now I know who he is and what he looks like when you guys talk about him. He was being kind of a jerk and told a whole group of rich dudes from the EU that "so most of you have never done a proper job..."

Actually he hasn't either he was a commodities broker and suffers from the same delusion that many in financial services do that they create wealth. They don't financial services are parasitical we have many problems in our economy because they have forgotten that they provide SERVICES he never made anything bor grew anything all he did was buy and sell commodities making money as a middle man.

I think he's trying to ensure the eu is so pissed off that they don't give us a good trade deal thus vindicating in his own mind his hostility to the eu.

posted by bruv

Together they might be powerful, but individually they are all just like him, passengers on the Euro gravy train.

not all are you've been reading the daily mail again haven't you.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:30 pm

gmc;1497947 wrote: Not all are you've been reading the daily mail again haven't you.

No I haven't honest.

They are all employed there aren't they ?

They get a lot more gravy than I do.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:37 pm

Bruv;1497955 wrote: No I haven't honest.

They are all employed there aren't they ?

They get a lot more gravy than I do.

I suppose you could have stood as an mep if you had wanted to or tried to get a job on the eu civil service. You sond like one of those people on minimum wage who lack the necessary oomph to get off their backsides and get a decent job. (I take my inspiration for that comment from the daily mail) Too bad we didblt have immigration controls in place hen farage's family emigrated here.

Just think of all the thousands of people who have just lost their jobs, all the research scientists who are about to lose their funding, all the eu sponsored research and development money that is now about to disappear. An awful lot of people have just had their lives ruined.

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/articl ... bJX6UzisVb

Friday's going to be amazing! I'm going to wake up in my Union Jack jim-jams to the sound of a squadron of Spitfires racing overhead and leaving a trail of hot buttered crumpets behind them.

I'll run to the corner shop past all the British children who are laughing and squealing with excitement as they make a beautiful statue of the queen out of happy wriggling bulldog puppies - with two corgis for her eyebrows!

Bunting flutters everywhere and the man from the betting shop steps into the street - 'guess what! England just won the World Cup and The Ashes and The Grand National and here's the best bit - Boris put a bet on it for everyone! You're all MILLIONAIRES!!!'

The Red Arrows fly overhead dropping fish and chips as I walk into the corner shop, get my morning paper and go to the counter. 'How much please?' I say to the Asian lad there. 'One pence, everything in the whole shop now costs just 1p!' he laughs, leave it on the counter, I'm off back to Pakistan - we all are!'

And he's right! Outside in the streets jolly old Nigel Farage is leading a huge crowd of happy foreigners - Turks, Poles, Romanians, Syrians - there's even a few English people with heavy suntans mixed up in there! Nigel's playing Rule Britannia on a long pipe, rather like the pipe that takes the gas into your oven, and they're all following and smiling and talking foreign, bless them!

Just then Boris flies overhead in a concorde made of Bank of England gold - 'don't worry!' he laughs. 'I've cut out all the bits the French made!' and with that he crashes into the ground at 1200 miles an hour, along with the economy, the country and all the dozy nostalgic foreigner-fearing f--kwits who fell for his bulls--t.

Grow up. Wake up.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:52 pm

Someones been on their scotch meds again

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Jul 03, 2016 4:34 am

If you go in to any european city you will find an irish/scots/english pub somewhere filled with expats most of whom don't work for the eu. It's one of the myths put about by the daily mail about expats. There are thoiusands of OAP's living in spain who have just had their lives put on hold wghile they wait to see what happens.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:04 am

I've no objection to people selling by weight in pounds, but if there's no indication of price per 100g then I'll refuse to shop there. I still want to be able to compare value.

Ministers "should let traders sell groceries in pounds and ounces" in wake of Brexit vote

I note, half way through the report, a squit Brixiteer MP lying by the use of selective phraseology and choosing his words carefully:Peter Bone, a Eurosceptic Tory MP, said the Government should allow shops and customers to buy and sell in imperial measurements well ahead of a possible Brexit in 2017.

He said: â€œI always have to translate everything back into pounds and ounces anyway.

â€œGiven that our biggest trading partner by a mile â€“ the United States â€“ is still on imperial measurements it has always been silly that we have had to just do it in metric.

He's simply refusing to recognize the EU as a trading partner, that's all. The EU takes more than half of UK exports, and supplies more than half of UK imports. And to add to the problem, US tons, pounds, pints, miles and gallons are different quantities to UK tons, pounds, pints, miles and gallons - they need converting to be accurate. Using the same names instead of kilos and litres will add to confusion, not lessen it. Peter Bone is a wilful and deliberate deceptive misleeder - what we in the pub would refer to as a dildo.

(reference: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... arter-2016)

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 11:07 am

I've always preferred to think in metric. Base 10 is so much easier to grasp than the whole combination of the varying bases of Imperial.

Post by **spot** » Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:57 pm

That merely indicates you can think more clearly than a rabid stoat stuck in a tumble dryer set to extreme fast-dry, unlike Peter Bone MP who obviously speaks through his bottom whenever a reporter is within earshot.

Post by **spot** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 7:36 am

spot;1497534 wrote: UKIP did land seven seats in the Welsh Assembly a couple of months ago, they being now led in the chamber by Neil Hamilton.To come up to date, Nigel resigned, Diane James became leader, Diane James stood down, Nigel is back to being leader, Steven Woolfe announces he wants to be leader, Steven Woolfe picks a fight with another MEP and gets decked, Steven Woolfe is blatantly inept. I think it's time for Neil Hamilton to become UKIP leader despite Nigel not liking the chap. Nobody likes Neil, that's a given, but he's the only conniving political animal they possess. Compared to Steven Woolfe he has gravitas and a presentable wife [1], and neither of those are attributes I ever thought I'd be expressing with regard to Tatton's Finest.

[1]: That, on reflection, is badly worded. I mean that Christine Hamilton has exposed herself to the national press so often that she knows what to do in such circumstances, regardless of how low those circumstances get. She could write the definitive how-to book on self-presentation starting with how Gerald Nabarro might be seen as a springboard to fame and fortune.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:12 pm

I can't believe anyone still supports that bunch of idiots. History question for fifteen years time. "The rise of UKIP led to the break up of the united kingdom and the destruction of the english economy. Discuss."

Post by **Momus** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 12:59 pm

Unsubstantiated poppycock. From the very birth of UKIP, the same right wingers labelled them as racists and fruitcakes. Cameron's famous words in fact that he was forced to retract some years later. At the birth, they represented a one policy party and went on to blatantly rip off far right parties in other policies, even logo's. Far right parties in the UK had been calling for the withdrawal from Europe for decades but did not gather the support and momentum as UKIP due to an assortment of dubious characters and leaders. It was Farage that brought respectability to the policy. Ordinarily, a new political party would take decades to mature but the rapid rise of UKIP was evidence that the mood of the country was already firmly on course for the country becoming dissatisfied with our involvement within the European Union. Just as recently as 2010, the notion of a referendum was unlikely. The pressure put upon Cameron to call a referendum was due to an arrogant liberal elite who believed, for one, it would never happen, two, Cameron would never call it and three, the public would vote to remain. It is the arrogance of the left wingers in failing to recognize the mood of the country, along with dismissing those who called for withdrawal as racist, that caught them napping.

Post by **Momus** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:02 pm

magentaflame;1498151 wrote: Someones been on their scotch meds again

Even pissed, he writes more sense in one line than anything i have seen from you dear.

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:22 pm

Momus;1501720 wrote: Even pissed, he writes more sense in one line than anything i have seen from you dear.
You sound like my ex husband. He was mean and nasty too. And the member it was directed to is used to my humour from a long time ago. And we have a healthy relationship. (Shrugs) Id root him

Now back to brexit.

Im still proud that the British are still so polite that even when they have a revolution its non violent.

Post by **Momus** » Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:26 pm

magentaflame;1501722 wrote: You sound like my ex husband. He was mean and nasty too.

Now back to brexit.

Im still proud that the British are still so polite that even when they have a revolution its non violent.

Don't tell me. He left you.

Non violent? You clearly have no concept of the ramifications of post Brexit.

Nationalists clash with United Against Fascists at pro-Brexit march | Metro News

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:34 am

It does sound like the Political Wing of Eastenders, doesn't it?

Post by **spot** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:47 am

The decision to have a Commons debate on the required negotiating points will enliven matters.

PMâ€™s decision means there will be substantive parliamentary debate on No 10â€™s strategy before UK triggers article 50

Once the EU sits down with UK negotiators there will be a subtext. If the EU allows the UK to come out feeling jaunty then they'll have another half dozen countries asking to exit. If they send the UK whimpering back to a life of national penury they'll scotch further attempts to leave. I wonder which of those results the EU will aim for.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:30 am

The thing which annoyed me when the UK joined the EU was that the Commonwealth, which previously had trade agreements with the UK, were left out in the cold because the EU insisted those trade treaties had to be nullified.

It's certainly possible that trade deals will now be re-established with New Zealand, Australia, Canada and the like. I'm all for that happening.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 7:24 am

It seems that Australia and New Zealand are keen. We have to see what we can do with the Commonwealth as a whole, I suppose, though I didn't like the way India rubbed its hands with glee. Canada - well, what are the terms of their links with the EU? This is accepting of course that we are a huge amount poorer, whatever the situation when it comes to negotiations, and we need deals pdq whereas the opposition can take their time.

Beyond that until the negotiations for brexit are done we have no idea what hand we have or what we are dealing with other than Johnson's pencilings. Heck, we don't even know whether we've dealt a death blow to the EU yet, and if we have then we and the rest of the European continent are in big trouble. That's when the risk of open war really jumps to alarming new levels. The EU locks down the Balkans, and there's always trouble when they aren't part of something bigger.

And I don't like Putin's hand in all this - here and in the USA. I don't say he caused it but he's certainly helping it along all he can. I just hope to god brexiters haven't set the avalanche going.

Fortunately we are blessed with a talented Foreign Secretary to negotiate in this delicate situation....:-5

edit: I don't think, btw, that all brexiters are the far right nasties, racists, xenophobes and ultra rich who lead the movement and provide much of the activist side (from murderers to UKIP). I think many millions have made a terrible mistake. Just as in the USA, I don't think they realised what they voted for or with.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:06 am

The test in America will be whether President Trump offers himself for a second term, a question I posed last May. If he does I can easily see him being returned.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:50 pm

...shudder...

shall go and buy pie for comfort eating...

Post by **spot** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:29 am

Betty Boop wrote: ↑Sun Jun 26, 2016 2:54 pm gmc;1497804 wrote:

Cornwall votes for Brexit then issues plea to keep EU funding | Home News | News | The Independent

I didn't!!! I've come across a few eejitts who are now wondering if they did the right thing :-5

Given the amount of EU funding this county has received over the years I was really shocked to see the leave majority.

‘I wish I’d voted to stay in’: Brixham fishers on the cost of Brexit - https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... -of-brexit

I wonder whether the same reaction is growing in Cornwall too.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:27 pm

Maybe, quietly, behind closed doors people who voted out are realising they maybe shouldn't have?

Has there been one ounce of good to come from this.

As a town we've lost funding that the governement said they were going to match, it wasn't awarded recently to us and now we're waiting for the next round of money tossing to see if we get any that time round, won't hold my breath. So many lies and no one holding anyone to account.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:47 am

Betty Boop wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:27 pm Maybe, quietly, behind closed doors people who voted out are realising they maybe shouldn't have?

Has there been one ounce of good to come from this.

As a town we've lost funding that the governement said they were going to match, it wasn't awarded recently to us and now we're waiting for the next round of money tossing to see if we get any that time round, won't hold my breath. So many lies and no one holding anyone to account.

With the loss of Migrant Workers willing to be exploited on Minimum Wage, Labour is in demand. Consequently Employers now have to offer incentives to get people to work for them. These incentives take the form of better pay, which has risen dramatically since Leaving the EU.
There are also Trade Deals that we have set up, and are continuing to set up for ourselves, without the interference of the EU.
Businesses both from within & without the EU are now starting to invest in the UK, with both Nissan & BMW, for instance, setting up factories here.
British Farmers who have been actually doing farming are benefitting from the additional sales, although the ones who were just doing nothing & letting the EU subsidise them for doing so are obviously losing out.
I was always Pro-Leave, and I've not come across anyone who was Pro-Leave who has since changed theor mind to being Pro-Remain. However, I have come across plenty who were initially Pro-Remain who now agree that Leaving was the better option.
The 'Funding' you refer to is merely what we paid the EU that that gave back as 'Rebate' Essentially, we gave them £100 & they gave us £15 as 'Funding'. It's no different to saying that we paid them £85 & got nothing in return. This is where the (one & only) argument Remainers come up with about the £350m / week (in actual fact, the £350m was rounded down). It is an accurate figure, but it is the Gross figure, without taking into account the Rebate. The actual Net figure was more like £285m AFTER the Rebate.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 11:17 am

FourPart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:47 am

With the loss of Migrant Workers willing to be exploited on Minimum Wage, Labour is in demand. Consequently Employers now have to offer incentives to get people to work for them. These incentives take the form of better pay, which has risen dramatically since Leaving the EU.

Dramatic rise? Where?

All sources I have found are that it's a small and temporary wage rise and its not sustainable for most businesses to continue paying higher wages longterm.

Your words, 'migrant workers willing to be exploited' ?? can you explain that statement, do you mean becuase they are migrants they deserve to be exploited and therefore it's perfectly acceptable for employers to exploit them? Do you think they know they will be exploited before they come here?

Maybe you need to lose the 'willing'.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:07 pm

FourPart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:47 am
The 'Funding' you refer to is merely what we paid the EU that that gave back as 'Rebate' Essentially, we gave them £100 & they gave us £15 as 'Funding'. It's no different to saying that we paid them £85 & got nothing in return. This is where the (one & only) argument Remainers come up with about the £350m / week (in actual fact, the £350m was rounded down). It is an accurate figure, but it is the Gross figure, without taking into account the Rebate. The actual Net figure was more like £285m AFTER the Rebate.

This has been out there long enough, but here it is incase you missed it

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/re ... 50m-a-week

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Nov 04, 2021 12:39 pm

FourPart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:47 am
There are also Trade Deals that we have set up, and are continuing to set up for ourselves, without the interference of the EU.

4 ? Four trade deals set up, is that right? Any stats on those to compare to what we had?

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:42 am

Betty Boop wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:07 pm
FourPart wrote: ↑Wed Nov 03, 2021 1:47 am
The 'Funding' you refer to is merely what we paid the EU that that gave back as 'Rebate' Essentially, we gave them £100 & they gave us £15 as 'Funding'. It's no different to saying that we paid them £85 & got nothing in return. This is where the (one & only) argument Remainers come up with about the £350m / week (in actual fact, the £350m was rounded down). It is an accurate figure, but it is the Gross figure, without taking into account the Rebate. The actual Net figure was more like £285m AFTER the Rebate.
This has been out there long enough, but here it is incase you missed it

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/re ... 50m-a-week

The Guardian is as Pro-Remain as the BBC - hardly an unbiased source. However, as is usually the case with the Guardian it's best to read their articles from the bottom up - that's where they hide the facts. Down there it admits that the £350 figure was a Gross figure, and that a more accurate figure would be £248, taking the Rebate into account - which is basically what I said. The only thing they are really disputing is the words "Send".

Verdict
The leave camp might just about have been able to get away with saying that the UK sends £248m a week to Brussels (which at least takes account of the rebate). It can argue all it likes that £350m is a “gross figure”. But it cannot, in all conscience, get away with the use of the word “send”.

Nearly all of the deals that we had with non EU Countries have already signed up Rollover Deals as well as some new ones. But the point is that we can negotiate on our own terms without being subject to all decisions being made for us.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842

Post by **spot** » Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:51 am

For those wondering how Brexit has progressed, I shall tell the tale of the CE standards mark (Conformité Européenne) and its UK replacement, the UKCA mark (UK Conformity Assessed). There's a UK government timeline at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-u ... te-history

Once upon a time the terms of the CE mark were subject to UK input. Our political masters and their civil service jobsworths sat on EU committees and took part in specifying its content and applicability. Then the UK left the EU.

Every supplier intending to sell goods in the UK subsequently had to qualify and conform to the new UKCA and, crucially, they had to mark their goods to be sold in the UK with the new mark. So, have a guess which European suppliers chose to do that as opposed to withdrawing their product from the UK market. A low proportion, that's the answer you're looking for. It cost more time, cash and effort to conform to the new standard than to keep supplying. UK suppliers definitely had to cough up the same time, cash and effort in order to continue supplying their essential bread-and-butter domestic market but foreign manufacturers mainly just shrugged and stopped letting us buy their goods, and why shouldn't they.

Now for the fun part - the terms of UKCA are and were always going to be absolutely identical to CE. The British didn't have the balls to actually ever vary the requirements, it would have immediately stopped sub-compliant goods on either standard from crossing the UK border. All Brexit required is that the new stamp of approval appear on the goods, not that the qualification requirements had changed. Just the logo. And, of course, the applications and certificates of conformity - the paperwork.

Which means that the requirements for UKCA in terms of quality control remain and always will remain identical to what they always have been, except that now the UK has absolutely no control or input or advisory power on the EU committees that decide on what the UKCA standard actually says even though it has "UK" in the name. Britain has merely added to the paperwork and lost any say in what changes gets approved in future.

Many Asian suppliers never had to do anything at all because the majority of small businesses in Shenzhen didn't ever get any paperwork, all they did was imprint "CE" on one of the plastic components of their product. And now they'll imprint "UKCA" next to it in a slightly different font in a different shaped rectangle. So, no change there then.

If you look at the timeline on the government website, you'll see that the entire British demand for conformity with having the right paperwork and the right UKCA logo collapsed on Tuesday of this week. Nobody now needs to use the logo or get the paperwork, it's been pushed into the long grass and become effectively optional because it was going to prevent essential imports from reaching UK businesses - foreign suppliers were quite simply refusing to sign up and take part.

It is a story of national self-harm that one couldn't make up as fiction. It's Brexit in a nutshell and it's entirely the product of so-called David Cameron, his dreadful political advisers and the scandalous far-right opportunist fanatics who lied their way to a 52:48 referendum result by which I mean those two stinkers Farage and Gove, bad cess to their ignoble hides.

The Guardian has a long opinion-piece about it today, which triggered this post. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -red-tape-

Comi23 · Post by **Comi23** » Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:32 am

spot wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2023 1:51 am For those wondering how Brexit has progressed, I shall tell the tale of the CE standards mark (Conformité Européenne) and its UK replacement, the UKCA mark (UK Conformity Assessed). There's a UK government timeline at https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-the-u ... te-history

Once upon a time the terms of the CE mark were subject to UK input. Our political masters and their civil service jobsworths sat on EU committees and took part in specifying its content and applicability. Then the UK left the EU.

Every supplier intending to sell goods in the UK subsequently had to qualify and conform to the new UKCA and, crucially, they had to mark their goods to be sold in the UK with the new mark. So, have a guess which European suppliers chose to do that as opposed to withdrawing their product from the UK market. A low proportion, that's the answer you're looking for. It cost more time, cash and effort to conform to the new standard than to keep supplying. UK suppliers definitely had to cough up the same time, cash and effort in order to continue supplying their essential bread-and-butter domestic market but foreign manufacturers mainly just shrugged and stopped letting us buy their goods, and why shouldn't they.

Now for the fun part - the terms of UKCA are and were always going to be absolutely identical to CE. The British didn't have the balls to actually ever vary the requirements, it would have immediately stopped sub-compliant goods on either standard from crossing the UK border. All Brexit required is that the new stamp of approval appear on the goods, not that the qualification requirements had changed. Just the logo. And, of course, the applications and certificates of conformity - the paperwork.

Which means that the requirements for UKCA in terms of quality control remain and always will remain identical to what they always have been, except that now the UK has absolutely no control or input or advisory power on the EU committees that decide on what the UKCA standard actually says even though it has "UK" in the name. Britain has merely added to the paperwork and lost any say in what changes gets approved in future.

Many Asian suppliers never had to do anything at all because the majority of small businesses in Shenzhen didn't ever get any paperwork, all they did was imprint "CE" on one of the plastic components of their product. And now they'll imprint "UKCA" next to it in a slightly different font in a different shaped rectangle. So, no change there then.

If you look at the timeline on the government website, you'll see that the entire British demand for conformity with having the right paperwork and the right UKCA logo collapsed on Tuesday of this week. Nobody now needs to use the logo or get the paperwork, it's been pushed into the long grass and become effectively optional because it was going to prevent essential imports from reaching UK businesses - foreign suppliers were quite simply refusing to sign up and take part.

It is a story of national self-harm that one couldn't make up as fiction. It's Brexit in a nutshell and it's entirely the product of so-called David Cameron, his dreadful political advisers and the scandalous far-right opportunist fanatics who lied their way to a 52:48 referendum result by which I mean those two stinkers Farage and Gove, bad cess to their ignoble hides.

The Guardian has a long opinion-piece about it today, which triggered this post. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -red-tape-

Thanks for sharing your insights on the post-Brexit shift from the CE to UKCA standards. Your perspective highlights the challenges faced by businesses, with many foreign suppliers opting out due to increased time and cost. The observation that UK influence is now absent in EU committees deciding the UKCA standard adds an interesting dimension. The narrative emphasizes the bureaucratic nature of the changes, describing it as a form of national self-harm attributed to key political figures. The linked Guardian opinion piece provides further context. The consequences on trade relationships and supply chain efficiency are evident, making ongoing discussions crucial for understanding the post-Brexit landscape.

This helped a lot, I was lost around all the things that BREXIT did and now I think I know what's going on still