Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

I have been with my current employer for 10+ years. I do not love my job, in fact it is far too stressful for the amount of pay. I have 5 weeks vacation and good benefits however, with a M-F schedule.

I have a horrible wench of a manager, just vile. Have you sen the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix? You know Dolores Umbridge, from the Ministry if Magic, how she goes to Hogwarths school and takes it over with all of this obnoxious rules and micromanaging?

That is my manager.

That is the best comparison I can come up with. She is horrid. So horrid that 6 of us have gone to HR to complain about her.

No one however is willing to lodge a formal complaint as that is risking their job. It is a risk at any place of employment, particularly a Fortune 500 company, to file any sort of complaint. That is the case here as well.

She is manipulative, micro-managing, lying, plays favorites openly (and against each other to no avail), has brought several of us to tears in our reviews. She told me in my last review that I was 'un-hireable' within the organisation. :(

Vile. She should not be a manager.

So, a-job hunting I went. I applied and interviewed for another similar company. Same job, different product. I was offered the position and am supposed to start the second week of Jan. The hours are horrible, I would be working and coming home after my children are in bed, and I would work every Saturday. The money is comparable, maybe a bit better, but not much. In approx a year, I would have to 'get in line' to get the better shift. It's not impossible but definitely a wait.

The dilemma; do I take the job to escape the harpy? Or do I ask the harpy point blank if she plans on letting me go? (This is the impression she has given me, that my position was always in jeopardy).

If she plans on letting me go, I will def take the new position.

If she does not, I will let her know that I will no longer take her screwing with my head and sensibilities. I am certain that I have an ulcer because of this woman. I will let her know that I want to look within the organisation for another position and leave the current assignment I have.

I may have answered my own dilemma.

The hard part will be approaching her. But I will do it, I'm a grown woman and have no time for this sort of bullshit in my life. I lose sleep over this person, it's hardly fair.

Argh.:-5
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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LarsMac
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by LarsMac »

Is the new job going to help you in life, or just be different?

Some bosses think they need to intimidate you to keep you around. Perhaps you need to challenge her management style, face-to-face.

If you are ready to deal with the NEW challenges and deal with the hours of the new job.

Go to Ms Harpy and advise her that you have an offer on the table and that you are considering leaving. Tell her you don't feel appreciated and think you need new challenges.

If she cares, at all, she will ask why you want to leave, and what it would take to keep you around. If not, it's time to move on.

Just be prepared for the consequences.

New job could end up being just as bad, but with worse hours.

Change is not always better.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

LarsMac;1276321 wrote: Is the new job going to help you in life, or just be different?

Some bosses think they need to intimidate you to keep you around. Perhaps you need to challenge her management style, face-to-face.

If you are ready to deal with the NEW challenges and deal with the hours of the new job.

Go to Ms Harpy and advise her that you have an offer on the table and that you are considering leaving. Tell her you don't feel appreciated and think you need new challenges.

If she cares, at all, she will ask why you want to leave, and what it would take to keep you around. If not, it's time to move on.

Just be prepared for the consequences.

New job could end up being just as bad, but with worse hours.

Change is not always better.


Consequences...that is it.

I'm positive she would wish me well and ask that I don't let the door hit my ass on the way out. Currently, she has 4 of us that she would like to see gone and has been making our work environment miserable, me being one of them. We are all high performers s well.

Goodness, being bullied as an adult is no fun.

Also, wasn't there another response? I had a chance to read your reply last night but then I went to bed. And thank you for your reply too :)
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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LarsMac
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by LarsMac »

Just remember, be nice. Leave emotion at the door when you go talk to her.

If she is as nasty as you describe, she would relish your distress.

Most companies have exit interview process these days. You should request to have that interview with someone higher up the food chain. Maybe the management does not realize how nasty this person is. You could help there, on your way out.
Control is an illusion. The Chaos is all part of the fun.
-Susan Hattie Steinsapir
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Jazzy
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Jazzy »

There is NO WAY I would let this woman force me after 10+ years with a company to seek employment else where. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence and you could be getting yourself into a worse situation. Like it or not, here is what I would do:

Arrange a meeting with the Director of Human Resources and all 6 of you who have complained need to be present. I would also request that this nasty boss of yours attend this meeting as well. Everyone sit in the same room and get all complaints out in the open (yes, in front of her) See what her response is and let her slit her own throat. Six people cannot be wrong. Remember, there is strength in numbers :wah:

The other alternative would be to seek another position within the same company so you don't lose your 10+ year benefits. Again, there is NO WAY I would leave because of one person.
gmc
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by gmc »

posted by boogalette

That is the best comparison I can come up with. She is horrid. So horrid that 6 of us have gone to HR to complain about her.

No one however is willing to lodge a formal complaint as that is risking their job.


Sound like you have some allies there in any half way decent company if a large number of staff complain about a manager they sit up and take notice. One of you complaining is one thing but six of you they suggests they have a problem-especially if you are all high performers. why not have a word with your colleagues and see if they want to present a united front?
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

Jazzy;1276463 wrote: There is NO WAY I would let this woman force me after 10+ years with a company to seek employment else where. The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence and you could be getting yourself into a worse situation. Like it or not, here is what I would do:

Arrange a meeting with the Director of Human Resources and all 6 of you who have complained need to be present. I would also request that this nasty boss of yours attend this meeting as well. Everyone sit in the same room and get all complaints out in the open (yes, in front of her) See what her response is and let her slit her own throat. Six people cannot be wrong. Remember, there is strength in numbers :wah:

The other alternative would be to seek another position within the same company so you don't lose your 10+ year benefits. Again, there is NO WAY I would leave because of one person.


I think that I am going to discuss with her the situation. I will not show emotion (I think that is good advice) I will keep it professional and if she happens to slip off of the professional wagon, I will call her on it right there (I'm sorry, I do not feel that that is a professional stance therefore not relevant to this conversation...). I will also do this in the cubicle, not a boardroom, as I don't want to ask that much of them at this time, but a cubicle is also NOT private, and I will have witnesses.

It is silly that people cannot be adults and have to pull this crap on others. Silly and is screwing around with my life. Hardly fair.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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Odie
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Odie »

Boogalette;1276573 wrote: I think that I am going to discuss with her the situation. I will not show emotion (I think that is good advice) I will keep it professional and if she happens to slip off of the professional wagon, I will call her on it right there (I'm sorry, I do not feel that that is a professional stance therefore not relevant to this conversation...). I will also do this in the cubicle, not a boardroom, as I don't want to ask that much of them at this time, but a cubicle is also NOT private, and I will have witnesses.

It is silly that people cannot be adults and have to pull this crap on others. Silly and is screwing around with my life. Hardly fair.


make sure her employer is present.;)
Life is just to short for drama.
K.Snyder
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by K.Snyder »

Boogalette;1276317 wrote: The dilemma; do I take the job to escape the harpy? Or do I ask the harpy point blank if she plans on letting me go? (This is the impression she has given me, that my position was always in jeopardy).




I'm a very free spirited individual so apply at your own risk!

Personally, I think your manager is trying to get more out of you simply to make her job easier...There's no other reason for it or she'd have already fired you.

Having said that, I personally would have every bit of confidence in doing my job and you'll be amazed at how invigorated you'd feel after not allowing anyone to control you like a puppet!

Be confident in your own competence and live your life how you please. You'll be fine trust me...
K.Snyder
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by K.Snyder »

Everyone(Immoral) stomps on timidity and never stop...It's a simple observation within any species...

Quintessentially, I think she's just trying to control people and I think more people should call her obvious bluff!

She has personal issues so don't let that effect you!...
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

Well, I spoke with her today, first thing actually.

I asked her what the situation for the group was, same headcount? Or was I going to be removed?

She couldn't tell me that all was well, that I was fine and we'll carry on as usual. Nope. Instead, she had to say that 'they weighed my position heavily and hmmed and hawed for a couple of days over it. She made a big dramatic spectacle of it. I think she expected me to break down and cry in relief.

Yeah, didn't happen. :D

I took the advice of remaining emotion free, and I think it was a good one.

I also let her know that the statement that she made to me of being unhireable was out of line and weighed heavily on me. She tried to say that she did not mean it that way. I said of course you did, that is how you delivered it.

More to it, but in the end I told her I want no more micro-managing and I will work autonomously, and she and I will meet every 2-3 months for my performance reviews, not monthly. If I need anything I will contact her. She was fine with that.

For now...



I am going to contact the other oppty and let them know that I can't accept it at this time. My oldest daughter asked me about it and the hours and she said that not seeing me isn't good. Work life balance, right?
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
K.Snyder
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by K.Snyder »

Boogalette;1276916 wrote: Well, I spoke with her today, first thing actually.

I asked her what the situation for the group was, same headcount? Or was I going to be removed?

She couldn't tell me that all was well, that I was fine and we'll carry on as usual. Nope. Instead, she had to say that 'they weighed my position heavily and hmmed and hawed for a couple of days over it. She made a big dramatic spectacle of it. I think she expected me to break down and cry in relief.

Yeah, didn't happen. :D

I took the advice of remaining emotion free, and I think it was a good one.

I also let her know that the statement that she made to me of being unhireable was out of line and weighed heavily on me. She tried to say that she did not mean it that way. I said of course you did, that is how you delivered it.

More to it, but in the end I told her I want no more micro-managing and I will work autonomously, and she and I will meet every 2-3 months for my performance reviews, not monthly. If I need anything I will contact her. She was fine with that.

For now...



I am going to contact the other oppty and let them know that I can't accept it at this time. My oldest daughter asked me about it and the hours and she said that not seeing me isn't good. Work life balance, right?


:yh_wink
mikeinie
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by mikeinie »

I can’t really advise on the job switch. It sounds like you are sacrificing a lot with hours and family to get away from the situation at work, but this is a personal choice, maybe the new job will work out great.

However, in dealing with the situation at your current work the best advice that I can give is this.

WHO EVER DOCUMENTS THE BEST WINS

The problem when people walk into these confrontational meetings is that they do become emotional, almost impossible to avoid. Then the topic becomes all scattered with general statements being made with no back up.

As situations take place in your office that supports your feelings about your boss, you need to sit down and clearly document them. Write down the date, the time, what was said. You need to be honest in your writing and document what you said as well, it cannot be one sided.

Remember:

1. What I saw

2. What I heard

3. How it made me feel.

And keep out of it personal opinions and general statements.

Also do not fall into the trap of fighting other people’s battles. Once one person decides to stand up, you can easily become a champion for all of those who will not stand up for themselves. Be careful not to be discussing other people’s problems… ‘you said this to her, and she said this bla bla bla.

Deal only with yourself.

Then when you walk into your meeting you are prepared. You concerns are clear and well documented and you can speak to specific issues.

Then also bring a paper and pen to the meeting and document everything that is said and agreed or disagreed at the meeting.

If things do not work out, you have a documented history that can stand up in a labor court if needed.

Good luck.
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Jazzy
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Jazzy »

mikeinie;1276929 wrote: I can’t really advise on the job switch. It sounds like you are sacrificing a lot with hours and family to get away from the situation at work, but this is a personal choice, maybe the new job will work out great.

However, in dealing with the situation at your current work the best advice that I can give is this.

WHO EVER DOCUMENTS THE BEST WINS

The problem when people walk into these confrontational meetings is that they do become emotional, almost impossible to avoid. Then the topic becomes all scattered with general statements being made with no back up.

As situations take place in your office that supports your feelings about your boss, you need to sit down and clearly document them. Write down the date, the time, what was said. You need to be honest in your writing and document what you said as well, it cannot be one sided.

Remember:

1. What I saw

2. What I heard

3. How it made me feel.

And keep out of it personal opinions and general statements.

Also do not fall into the trap of fighting other people’s battles. Once one person decides to stand up, you can easily become a champion for all of those who will not stand up for themselves. Be careful not to be discussing other people’s problems… ‘you said this to her, and she said this bla bla bla.

Deal only with yourself.

Then when you walk into your meeting you are prepared. You concerns are clear and well documented and you can speak to specific issues.

Then also bring a paper and pen to the meeting and document everything that is said and agreed or disagreed at the meeting.

If things do not work out, you have a documented history that can stand up in a labor court if needed.

Good luck.


Excellent advise!
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

YOu are correct about the documentation. I should try and log what I've gone tru. I still have all of her harassing emails.

Earlier this week she emailed me a task, I completed it (it was a dead task, I reviewed the info and found I could do nothing with it) and told her. Sher asked if I took that information and passed it on to another department. I did not, that is not my job, and I am currently overwhelmed and she knew it. I replied that I had not and the reason why I didn't (that I was too occupied with pertinent things).

She replied 'well, that sounds like and excuse.' and a long winded diatribe followed.

I was livid.

I cooled off some(LOTS), and asked her to come over and I told her that this email was un-necessary and had I replied to her email any either way I would STILL have gotten a longed winded email (such as this one) so I could not win with her. I told her I did not appreciate it one bit.

I asked her 'was this first sentence necessary?'

I asked ' was this entire email necessary?'

She replied 'it's complicated'

I responded 'it is not complicated. All that was required in this exchange was a OK, thanks' from you. It was very un-complicated in fact.

She apologised to me today for the email.

I still don't trust her, not a bit.

just another day in paradise. :-5 ;)
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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Nomad
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Post by Nomad »

Boogalette;1276916 wrote: Well, I spoke with her today, first thing actually.



I asked her what the situation for the group was, same headcount? Or was I going to be removed?

She couldn't tell me that all was well, that I was fine and we'll carry on as usual. Nope. Instead, she had to say that 'they weighed my position heavily and hmmed and hawed for a couple of days over it. She made a big dramatic spectacle of it. I think she expected me to break down and cry in relief.

Yeah, didn't happen. :D

I took the advice of remaining emotion free, and I think it was a good one.

I also let her know that the statement that she made to me of being unhireable was out of line and weighed heavily on me. She tried to say that she did not mean it that way. I said of course you did, that is how you delivered it.

More to it, but in the end I told her I want no more micro-managing and I will work autonomously, and she and I will meet every 2-3 months for my performance reviews, not monthly. If I need anything I will contact her. She was fine with that.



For now...





I am going to contact the other oppty and let them know that I can't accept it at this time. My oldest daughter asked me about it and the hours and she said that not seeing me isn't good. Work life balance, right?


Good job !

Outstanding really.

I believe employees should find a way to train managers by drawing a line in the sand and letting them know when something is unacceptable. Its a thin line but if you do it correctly you can benefit.

They may have no idea how youve been effected so its fair to give them that opportunity to at least consider.
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mikeinie
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by mikeinie »

Often the mistake many managers make is not explaining the ‘why?’ They tell staff what to do, but often with the reason behind the task (particularly if the task is out of the norm) is not told.

People do not like being told what to do, if what they are being told to do does not make sense.

Maybe there was a good business reason for her to ask you to run the report, and maybe it made good business sense to send the information to another dept (instead of someone else having to pull the information that you had available).

But without the background it did not provide you with the reason to buy into her request. Perhaps if you knew why the information was needed, you would not have minded the information being shared. So basically the entire time you spent working on the report was wasted.

The outcome of bad management is exactly what you ended up saying ‘it is not my job’.

Instead of building a work team that does not work within silos and does not draw lines between what is my job and what is not my job, bad management put people into boxes where they only perform within the limitations of their specific duties. This is not productive and leads to loss of job satisfaction. Most people want to go to work and be productive and go home with the feeling that they have accomplished something during the day.

The negative side for the employee when these working silos happen is that it creates an impression of lack of cooperation and that the person is not willing to do anything more that their precise job description. The end result is that this can have a negative impact on your reviews, bonuses and maybe even promotions.

It is a no win situation, and the only way to move on from the confrontation situation (which only results in frustration and loss of job satisfaction) is open communication, which you are now starting to do.

Hopefully your manager will realize with better communication and less of an authoritarian syle of management she will get a better working team.
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

mikeinie;1277621 wrote: Often the mistake many managers make is not explaining the ‘why?’ They tell staff what to do, but often with the reason behind the task (particularly if the task is out of the norm) is not told.

People do not like being told what to do, if what they are being told to do does not make sense.

Maybe there was a good business reason for her to ask you to run the report, and maybe it made good business sense to send the information to another dept (instead of someone else having to pull the information that you had available).

But without the background it did not provide you with the reason to buy into her request. Perhaps if you knew why the information was needed, you would not have minded the information being shared. So basically the entire time you spent working on the report was wasted.

The outcome of bad management is exactly what you ended up saying ‘it is not my job’.

Instead of building a work team that does not work within silos and does not draw lines between what is my job and what is not my job, bad management put people into boxes where they only perform within the limitations of their specific duties. This is not productive and leads to loss of job satisfaction. Most people want to go to work and be productive and go home with the feeling that they have accomplished something during the day.

The negative side for the employee when these working silos happen is that it creates an impression of lack of cooperation and that the person is not willing to do anything more that their precise job description. The end result is that this can have a negative impact on your reviews, bonuses and maybe even promotions.

It is a no win situation, and the only way to move on from the confrontation situation (which only results in frustration and loss of job satisfaction) is open communication, which you are now starting to do.

Hopefully your manager will realize with better communication and less of an authoritarian syle of management she will get a better working team.




You are very articulate and described the dynamics quite well. I may use some C&P of your post if you don't mind? Something has occurred where I have to go to HR about her.

It is year end. I'm in a sales position. I take and submit orders that will be processed by another group. I work on a team of 15 who do the exact same thing I do.

Everyone is rushing to get them in and completed.

We have 2 targets to hit. I have overachieved in one and am about 57% of the other. I received an order that I have been working on for 6 months and it would bring me up to 100% on my lagging target. It would be nice.

I submitted the orders on the 29th and they were not being completed, I was being patient as I know that others had submitted their orders before me and it is a first come first serve rule, it's only fair.

A co-worker had a large order pending, and she went to our mgr to see if it could be bumped and completed before everyone else's.

Manager said OK and made it so.

Bad decision all around.

No one else got theirs completed.

So no success for me, by design of the manager.

I've been in tears since yesterday.

I knew she would do something to 'challenge' me. In this case she made sure that I would fail and make no commission. Within the group, I was the one who had the most to lose.

Amazing.

So to HR and the VP I go on Monday. I have some documenting to do over the weekend. This woman has gone out of her way to **** with my life.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

*update*

It's done. I've parted ways with that department. Now I'm wearing yoga pants and I'm happy about it. A new chapter has begun and all is well.
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss
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G#Gill
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by G#Gill »

Congrats. Boogalette, are you with the same company but a different department? I'm sure you will find life more bearable now!:-6
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Boogalette
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Opportunity? Or just a way out of a current bad situation?

Post by Boogalette »

I'm an independent ;)

I'm going to take some time off for a while. I have a back up plan, so there will be minimal impact on my family.

I'm good about it. I'm sad that it had to happen as it more than likely would not have if she was not my manager, but it did.

And that is OK.

And thank you, I have a feeling you are right!
Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.~ De Seuss

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